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Author Topic: [LABCOIN] IPO [BTCT.CO] - Details/FAQ and Discussion (ASIC dev/sales/mining)  (Read 1042514 times)
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October 18, 2013, 12:12:14 AM
 #17721

Hi dooglus,

thank you for confirming that the funds were received into the Just-Dice wallets.

However, I don't understand the significance of the graph. Can you please explain.


Big profit?

I understand that much, but I was wondering if the funds that were received from the above wallet were invested, gambled away (profit shown on the graph), or withdrawn in smaller chunks (money laundering).

The graph shows that someone lost a fair amount of money at about the same time when the Labcoin funds were transferred in, but there is also a statement that someone withdraw a 1000 BTC is smaller chunks at about the same time.

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October 18, 2013, 12:17:16 AM
 #17722

Hi dooglus,

thank you for confirming that the funds were received into the Just-Dice wallets.

However, I don't understand the significance of the graph. Can you please explain.


Big profit?

I understand that much, but I was wondering if the funds that were received from the above wallet were invested, gambled away (profit shown on the graph), or withdrawn in smaller chunks (money laundering).

The graph shows that someone lost a fair amount of money at about the same time when the Labcoin funds were transferred in, but there is also a statement that someone withdraw a 1000 BTC is smaller chunks at about the same time.

Oh, I see, the coins could have been gambled and not invested...

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October 18, 2013, 12:18:25 AM
 #17723

Doog is saying JD received the 1000 coins earlier in the day on Oct 11 and withdrawl a total of 145 coins to separate addresses when the site profit was +2000 coins.

Later that day someone lost 2500 coins so the site profit went to +4500 coins.


Interesting.

Is there any way of telling what happened to deposits from these wallets:
http://blockchain.info/address/19Z6WwLtmhCT1xZyQAvnHg5tRKg24naeDS
http://blockchain.info/address/1Db4b6Up7KhzCvrPCu3BgqugDEpH86EDm5

1500 BTC tranfered to Just-Dice on 11th Oct.

Invested, gambled or withdrawn?

EDIT: I thought 1000 BTC was invested and then divested in smaller chunks, but it seems like only 145 BTC was divested in smaller chunks. Thanx

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October 18, 2013, 12:23:49 AM
 #17724

Doog is saying JD received the 1000 coins earlier in the day on Oct 11 and withdrawl a total of 145 coins to separate addresses when the site profit was +2000 coins.

No, I'm saying that the 1000 coin deposit which was withdrawn in small amounts was a separate incident, happening before Oct 11th.

The "<dooglus> so some guy deposited 1k BTC, then withdrew 25, 50, 10, 20, 40 in separate transactions to different addresses" was from Sun Oct  6 18:40:41 2013.

I don't think it would be proper to say whether the 1500 coins you traced to the JD wallet have any relation to the 2500 BTC that were lost shortly after the deposits.  But if so, you might have missed another 1000 BTC deposit to JD.

Just-Dice                 ██             
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dooglus
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October 18, 2013, 12:25:34 AM
 #17725

EDIT: I thought 1000 BTC was invested and then divested in smaller chunks, but it seems like only 145 BTC was divested in smaller chunks. Thanx

The "145 in smaller chunks" is a red herring.  It happened 5 days before Oct 11th.

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October 18, 2013, 01:11:01 AM
 #17726

Someone made this (i think Qwerty)  

Interview with labcoin shareholder


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfAwihDHS_A


ROFL  Grin !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


this shit is comedy GOLD.


every replay, this gets funnier.

"TheSwede75 sent me a PM, we saw the chip photos, very detailed.."

"well they promised they would bring immense hash power.. dominate the network"

"plz don't touch the wheelchair"

as the tears stream down my face , i know my neighbor is convinced im crazy.



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October 18, 2013, 01:21:28 AM
 #17727

I found videofootage of sam planning this all out and training back in 2009!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiKYeFp7vJ4

Now hes ready for the Big journey TO THE MOON!

▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
PRIMEDICE
The Premier Bitcoin Gambling Experience @PrimeDice
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀

SNttx1hwtpf8TQEK7ZBojcvQrDmBaz9QPK SFC Addy
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October 18, 2013, 01:36:55 AM
 #17728

Someone made this (i think Qwerty)  

Interview with labcoin shareholder


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfAwihDHS_A


ROFL  Grin !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


this shit is comedy GOLD.


every replay, this gets funnier.

"TheSwede75 sent me a PM, we saw the chip photos, very detailed.."

"well they promised they would bring immense hash power.. dominate the network"

"plz don't touch the wheelchair"

as the tears stream down my face , i know my neighbor is convinced im crazy.





Holy shit that's funny.
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October 18, 2013, 03:23:50 AM
 #17729

"Sam" seems to blow off the just-dice accusation quite easily, and claims he has no control over the wallet addresses mentioned.  I've never seen the full investigation on it... is there a link between just-dice and IPO funds or isn't there?

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October 18, 2013, 03:53:38 AM
 #17730

"Sam" seems to blow off the just-dice accusation quite easily, and claims he has no control over the wallet addresses mentioned.  I've never seen the full investigation on it... is there a link between just-dice and IPO funds or isn't there?

Make your own conclusion:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=263445.msg3347620#msg3347620

dooglus confirmed that the end wallets belong to Just-Dice.

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VolanicEruptor
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October 18, 2013, 04:30:21 AM
 #17731

Looks like there is no denying it, so how does he think he can get away with lying to us?  The blockchain tells the story.  To be a "good scammer" you should at least be good at lying.  This is a skill he lacks.. this is good for us though, as this gives the whole situation some transparency..

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October 18, 2013, 04:51:07 AM
 #17732

Looks like there is no denying it, so how does he think he can get away with lying to us?  The blockchain tells the story.  To be a "good scammer" you should at least be good at lying.  This is a skill he lacks.. this is good for us though, as this gives the whole situation some transparency..

I asked him/posted 3 times this morning and all I got was this

Quote from: Bitcoin Forum
A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations.

Quote
Labcoin,

Please answer below

11 Oct - 2,143.5070632 BTC - went to 1Db4b6Up7KhzCvrPCu3BgqugDEpH86EDm5
500 BTC went to 1ChUUPuiJByGTBFX12pXUwfzJ1ePspMvMy and then to Just-Dice
http://blockchain.info/tx/bc656cdaf03e528300a71fdba39ce0662cd0ad1eb6b1d7dba379a14c0742f4d8

11 Oct - 1,461.07586422 BTC - went to 1KFyiHGJRXRxT9TQiVuy12kdYtCiLmcnas
1,000 BTC went to 13cSk2UJwcZ3ch6xW1SqjDrFXGhjeuF13K then to Just-Dice
http://blockchain.info/tx/a32e281f2ecc10f2a675afa1cd2b7566a8b5f71d736590688ed2e7d03b2af83a

tl;dr Most of the IPO funds ended up at Just-Dice. "Sam" is either a big gambler, or he is trying to launder the money!

1ChUUPuiJByGTBFX12pXUwfzJ1ePspMvMy and 13cSk2UJwcZ3ch6xW1SqjDrFXGhjeuF13K are addresses in the Just-Dice wallet.  They are user deposit addresses.  User deposits are regularly swept up and moved to the online storage address.  So both the above are simply direct deposits to Just-Dice.

You are right it seems.

doog mentioned seeing a deposit of 1,000 coins come in recently that was then withdrawn in smaller chunks, no gambling or invest made, which looked like a drive by laundering

Quote from: Just-DICE
09:46:56 (1) <dooglus> aah: "(1) <dooglus> so some guy deposited 1k BTC, then withdrew 25, 50, 10, 20, 40 in separate transactions to different addresses"
09:47:36 (1) <dooglus> so yeah, it happened

That was before this incident.

Did you see what happened to Just-Dice profits on Oct 11th?  Dates are UTC.


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October 18, 2013, 04:55:50 AM
 #17733

The above evidence is circumstantial, but you have to admit there are too many coincidences for it not to be true, or at least raise red flags.

It is easy for "Sam" to blow off the accusations, but it is as easy to post the wallet address where the IPO funds are, even if he had no control of it.

What would be his reason for not doing so?

Looking back, Labcoin has managed to avoid providing any proof that this is not a scam.

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October 18, 2013, 05:27:35 AM
 #17734

Shares held publicly   8,094,329 Smiley time to sell. I guess he made another payment in shares Smiley)

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October 18, 2013, 07:46:20 AM
 #17735

ok im going to chime in here with some thoughts...

I haven't really posted in this thread before but I have posted in other threads and called scam when I saw it.

I've been investing in US stocks for more than 10 years so I have a fair idea of how to measure risk.

I have held two tiny (1K)  positions in this stock since the IPO.. once before the BTCTC shut down and again after they started hashing.


Here are the reasons why I would not risk anything more than play money on this stock.
(this is just a summary for those who haven't had the time to follow this thread)

1) Fabrizzio Tatti (the founder) has been outed as a known scammer and he has even admitted that he posed as Sam Noi on IRC.
2) Itech Pro, the parent company supporting Labcoin, does not have an office.. the address points to an address in a building which is shared by dozens of other companies so for all intents and purposes it leads to nothing more than a PO box.
3) Howard Wang the lead (and only) chip designer testified how difficult and aloof and poorly organized the labcoin management were. He even states how they didnt even pay him properly.
4) there is no evidence of 65nm chips only 130nm chips.. 130nm is already obsolete (I am currently running a 65nm Butterfly labs single and I know it will be obsolete within a few months)
5) being so poorly organized none of the major fabs are taking Labcoin seriously  (it would be extremely difficult for them to get a 28nm tape out even if they had a working design)
6) vast amounts of Money (BTC) has been shown to move from Labcoin to Just Dice (whether the money has been gambled or laundered is immaterial.. the mere fact that they are willing to move hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of shareholder money without shareholder approval is deeply concerning)
7) The current chips they have hashing are unstable. (the has rate has been moving between 600GH and 3TH up and down daily like a yoyo..  suggesting that there are Major problems with the chip design or overheating...  (for what its worth my BFL rig has been running non stop for 3 weeks since I got it without a hitch).. and yet we do not even know if they are using their own chips or some store bought chips...
8 ) A blog post from the CEO of 796 (in chinese) (where I believe some Labcoin assets were supposed to be listed)  seems to share the shareholder concerns that Labcoin management are an extremely aloof and shady.

here are some things that should give shareholders some comfort.

1) Labcoin are now hashing.. and paying dividends.. (I can confirm that they are paying dividends on havelock atleast)
2) the vast majority of shareholder money has not yet been spent... some 6000+ BTC have been shuffled around to various wallets. (most of it going to Just Dice apparently)
3) bitcoins ARE traceable and with enough ingenuity and diligence from the community we are able to see how the money is being moved and spent. (this will become evidence should this ever make it to trial)
4) china (and hong kong I believe) have much stricter laws against mass fraud. So if it does turn out to be a fraud scheme then at least the shareholders will be comforted knowing that Mr Tatti and/or Noi will be dealt with harshly by the law.


In summary I would say that at worst case this is an outright scam and best case it is a very poorly run and organised company run by amatuers who simply hired someone else to design their chips.. In my view they have very little chance of reaching their stated goals.. however with that said.. due to the nature of bitcoins traceability, I believe that there is a chance that those who still hold shares may get some money back from the IPO funds, once Sam realizes that it is virtually impossible launder that many bitcoins with so many people watching.

Just my 2c and a first time poster.. take it for what its worth....

here is howards deposition for anyone who has not read it.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1ntdxt/howard_wang_responds_to_qa_labcoin_is_a_scam/




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October 18, 2013, 09:38:20 AM
 #17736

ok im going to chime in here with some thoughts...

Thank you for writing this up, haven't been following Labcoin for a few weeks and didn't have the heart to read through pages of... whatever you may call this thread.

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October 18, 2013, 10:03:49 AM
 #17737

1) Fabrizzio Tatti (the founder) has been outed as a known scammer and he has even admitted that he posed as Sam Noi on IRC.

IM not sure how Fabrizzio was outed as a scammer, but for sure his brother in law, Alberto Armandi has been multiple times.
(eg https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93445.0)

Quote
3) Howard Wang the lead (and only) chip designer testified how difficult and aloof and poorly organized the labcoin management were. He even states how they didnt even pay him properly.

More telling is that Howard wang confirmed he never finished the design of either 180 or 130nm chip and that they faced serious difficulties securing a fab in august. THerefore,  neither chip could have taped out before august, making the odds it was hashing last month small to non existent.

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4) there is no evidence of 65nm chips only 130nm chips..

There is no evidence of a 130nm chip either. What evidence have you seen?

Quote
1) Labcoin are now hashing.. and paying dividends.. (I can confirm that they are paying dividends on havelock atleast)

I disagree that this would be a good sign. Its a terrible sign. Why? Because they couldnt possibly already be hashing with their own non existent chip, so this just further proves they are running a scam and using the IPO money for other means (gambling, buying off the shelve hardware, etc). If they had not been hashing, but giving evidence of ongoing development, at least there might still have been a small chance they were (somewhat) honest and chips could be forthcoming eventually. 

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October 18, 2013, 11:09:17 AM
 #17738

Quote
IM not sure how Fabrizzio was outed as a scammer, but for sure his brother in law, Alberto Armandi has been multiple times.

its difficult to get my head around but from what I read Fabrizzio's sister Alessia who is married to Alberto Armandi is a known scammer.
Fabrizzio was using his sisters account at the beginning of Labcoin. Therefore we do not know whether Fabrizzio, Alessia and Sam are different people or the same person in the context of Labcoin. The simple fact of someone using multiple aliases is a clear sign that something is not right.

Quote
More telling is that Howard wang confirmed he never finished the design of either 180 or 130nm chip and that they faced serious difficulties securing a fab in august. THerefore,  neither chip could have taped out before august, making the odds it was hashing last month small to non existent.

good point.

Quote
There is no evidence of a 130nm chip either. What evidence have you seen?


nothing but deductive reasoning... none of the other chip manufacturers seem to have such bad hashing drop outs. BFL had similar problems when they first produced their chips but they didn't ship until all the issues were ironed out.. all of the other manufacturers have done the same. Therefore if we assume that Labcoin simply bought hashing power it shouldn't be so unreliable. The fact that it is so unreliable seems to suggest that they are using their own chips or at the very least trying to mount chips sourced from somewhere else on their own boards. However that being said we do not know how these units are being housed so it could be an overheating problem in the room due to lack of ventilation or even someone messing around with miners trying to get the best performance out of them.. so I'll leave that one open to interpretation.

Quote
I disagree that this would be a good sign. Its a terrible sign. Why? Because they couldnt possibly already be hashing with their own non existent chip, so this just further proves they are running a scam and using the IPO money for other means (gambling, buying off the shelve hardware, etc). If they had not been hashing, but giving evidence of ongoing development, at least there might still have been a small chance they were (somewhat) honest and chips could be forthcoming eventually.  

It depends on how you view it... if you invested at IPO this still probably isn't comforting news.. but if you invested after the stock tanked then it is good to see some hashing and some dividend because it should put upward pressure on the stock regardless of the uncertainty. I'm not saying this means that Labcoin is Legit only that investors who held will get some kind of return. (however small)


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October 18, 2013, 11:55:02 AM
 #17739


nothing but deductive reasoning... none of the other chip manufacturers seem to have such bad hashing drop outs. BFL had similar problems when they first produced their chips but they didn't ship until all the issues were ironed out.. all of the other manufacturers have done the same. Therefore if we assume that Labcoin simply bought hashing power it shouldn't be so unreliable. The fact that it is so unreliable seems to suggest that they are using their own chips or at the very least trying to mount chips sourced from somewhere else on their own boards.

I disagree. The hash chart suggests they have ~600GH mining consistently (10 avalons or whatever) and what they added recently is often being shut down or redirected to another pool for whatever reason (installing/relocating/electrical problems/network problems..) but not likely due to the asics. For Labcoin to achieve that hashrate with their own chip, they would have to be running thousands of chips, so hundreds of blades/devices. Even if they have a problem, those arent going to magically fail and resume working together. Nor that one would expect them to have come online all together in a matter of minutes.

Quote
but if you invested after the stock tanked then it is good to see some hashing and some dividend because it should put upward pressure on the stock regardless of the uncertainty. I'm not saying this means that Labcoin is Legit only that investors who held will get some kind of return. (however small)

Sure anyone who bought in after it became apparent it was a scam may still profit a bit from the scam if the scammers decide to pay out some dividends to buy themselves some time. Its not often a good idea to bet money on a scammer paying you though and I have no sympathy for anyone boosting this stock just to achieve that. Id call them complicit.

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October 18, 2013, 12:32:12 PM
 #17740

Dividend sent, I now have 148 satoshi on cryptostocks!

Confirmed got div

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