[LABCOIN] IPO [BTCT.CO] - Details/FAQ and Discussion (ASIC dev/sales/mining)

[freedomno1]

Looking for any possible upside- if they really have ordered 100,000 chips, then the chips themselves must work...

Maybe they ordered all the chips without testing them first. I recall reading that they were choosing not to do this to save time. Also, how would they know if they don't have a single functional mining board? The ones pictured obviously don't work as everyone experienced with PCB design has pointed out.

Hmm so we made the first wafer batch didn't launch a test first to save time and produced 100,000 non functional chips so we can't refund the money
That would be grim indeed

[VinceSamios]

There's no scam and no pictures faking, here's another take :

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/199/uzby.jpg/

Proof of mining will be given as soon as possible.

"This photo has been removed" ?

What is the motivation for removing a photo? I'm not a typical paranoia, but this is pretty suspect.

[tucenaber]

There's no scam and no pictures faking, here's another take :

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/199/uzby.jpg/

Proof of mining will be given as soon as possible.

"This photo has been removed" ?

What is the motivation for removing a photo? I'm not a typical paranoia, but this is pretty suspect.

Suspect and at the same time completely pointless. Probably even contra productive. Ask Barbra Streisand.

[KCBitcoin]

There's no scam and no pictures faking, here's another take :

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/199/uzby.jpg/

Proof of mining will be given as soon as possible.

"This photo has been removed" ?

What is the motivation for removing a photo? I'm not a typical paranoia, but this is pretty suspect.

Suspect and at the same time completely pointless. Probably even contra productive. Ask Barbra Streisand.

They are just doing everything so wrong.

[BombaUcigasa]

If you don't think a board can work without visible traces on the top layer can you explain how the bitfury H-board actually works, when there are no visible, top-layer traces between the chips and the capacitors or anything else, except for closed loops that connect back to themselves?

My apologies if I'm wrong, it would be a good thing if I was. But the board you presented has a few things that the ones posted by Labcoin do not, such as:
- Soldered chips (optional)
- Other soldered components (optional)
- Chips have traces running from their pads, visibly (optional)
- Vias visible showing the board is clearly multi-layer (optional)
- Several components around each chip (optional - could be Labcoin are super pro and don't need anything outside the chip package or they are on the other side/other board)
- An interface array of pads where power connects (required - they only show one power pin per each chip)
- An interface array of pads where the other board connects (required)

If those things are real and they work, that's quite an efficient and breakthrough design that nobody so far has made for bitcoin.

Also people asking other people to explain why some chips are missing. Are you serious? Not all trays have to be filled with chips, and the chips could be located anywhere else than that tray and a mining board, those are not the only two locations in the Universe where the (presumably) missing chips could be located.

But anyway the whole "the boards are bad that proves they're scammers!!" thing makes zero sense. Why would scammers create boards with no traces when they have $700k in IPO money to spend.  You can get a PCB created in 24 hours, with any design you want, including full netlist testing to make sure all the connections on every board work fine.  It would be expensive, but it's certainly something that could be done.

True. I could make a fake design, get a board, find some tray of 44 pins chips to match the board, and post some hand-shaky pictures with an old DSLR that can't clean dust off the sensor.

But if I did that, there would be discrepancies between real designs and my fake design (me being incompetent at this as demonstrated by the users of this forum in reply to my posts) . Such as bad layout, unconnected pads, missing pads, missing logic connectors, oversized elements, undersized elements, non-standard design choices, that could totally blow up my fake design pictures.

[BitThink]

500 pages is not far away, keep up the good work guys!

Compared to 24 hours ago, the silence over the last hours suggests that our beloved bears are done.

The silence over the past few hours suggests that the ActM cheer-leading squad has taken a break from Labcoin, probably due to the fact that they have issues with their own share price - currently down to the IPO level on BTCT.

In the last 90 pages, 90% of the posts were posted by the heavily invested ActM FUDsters.

To be honest, I expected some teething issues and I'm not surprised, given that they did not test the PCB's before ordering them:

- PCB/Components for miners are expected to arrive shortly (a few days) after chips. To speed up miner production the PCB has not been tested prior to order but thorough simulations have been ran and Labcoin does not expect any issues with the PCB. SHOULD a problem arise Labcoin expects less than 1 week until new PCB can be produced, so even a worst case scenario has functioning PCB in-hand in about 2 weeks.

These types of issues occur and I'm confident that they will be ironed out shortly.

At the end of the day, for every share that was sold there was a buyer.   

Edit: Typo

If Its PCB design issue, then labcoin was lying blatantly when he said they had begun hashing at 2TH and everything is fine. I don't think they will be so stupid that they risk their credibility  to cover a error can be easily fixed in 1 week

More likely it was a issue out of their expectation. For example, The board worked well for a while and then malfunctioned due to heat or the software does not scale to large number of chips.

Anyway, could we try to guess, if labcoin never lies, what's the possible situation now? They are indeed hashing, but is not stable. They can only provide a mining address couple of days later but not now. They cannot provide photos without further confusing investors.

For me, the only plausible explanation is they don't have full control of their assembly and mining partners. All they have in hand are some sample chips and boards. Their parter in China refuse giving any photos taken in their side, and their reason or excuse may be  they don't want disclose any evidence that they are involved in this project, since illegal IPO may lead to death penalty in China.

[demzie]

"Their parter in China refuse giving any photos taken in their side, and their reason or excuse may be  they don't want disclose any evidence that they are involved in this project, since illegal IPO may lead to death penalty in China."

Indeed could be a firm and tight NDA..
I still think they will blow our minds when the stuff does work.

[nickwen]

There's no scam and no pictures faking, here's another take :

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/199/uzby.jpg/

Proof of mining will be given as soon as possible.

"This photo has been removed" ?

What is the motivation for removing a photo? I'm not a typical paranoia, but this is pretty suspect.

Suspect and at the same time completely pointless. Probably even contra productive. Ask Barbra Streisand.

here is the backup

if you guys need to CSI or something........

[BitThink]

"Their parter in China refuse giving any photos taken in their side, and their reason or excuse may be  they don't want disclose any evidence that they are involved in this project, since illegal IPO may lead to death penalty in China."

Indeed could be a firm and tight NDA..
I still think they will blow our minds when the stuff does work.

Labcoin said before they will outsource the deploying for the next batch of chips. Hopefully they have better control that time rather than otherwise.

[zumzero]

500 pages is not far away, keep up the good work guys!

Compared to 24 hours ago, the silence over the last hours suggests that our beloved bears are done.

The silence over the past few hours suggests that the ActM cheer-leading squad has taken a break from Labcoin, probably due to the fact that they have issues with their own share price - currently down to the IPO level on BTCT.

In the last 90 pages, 90% of the posts were posted by the heavily invested ActM FUDsters.

To be honest, I expected some teething issues and I'm not surprised, given that they did not test the PCB's before ordering them:

- PCB/Components for miners are expected to arrive shortly (a few days) after chips. To speed up miner production the PCB has not been tested prior to order but thorough simulations have been ran and Labcoin does not expect any issues with the PCB. SHOULD a problem arise Labcoin expects less than 1 week until new PCB can be produced, so even a worst case scenario has functioning PCB in-hand in about 2 weeks.

These types of issues occur and I'm confident that they will be ironed out shortly.

At the end of the day, for every share that was sold there was a buyer.  

Edit: Typo

Nonsense, how do you think things work?  Do you reckon that people sit and read threads to nurse their share price back to health?  Silly, silly comment.

Personally I don't feel I need to post on this thread anymore.  If people haven't made up their minds about this security by now then they've either bought blindly or are in total denial.

And for those FUDsters, as you like to call them, just remember that they are all reading every post in this thread.

Finally, if you think they are all from the same security and working together then you probably think the US Government brought down the Twin Towers and that Bitcoin will be worth $100,000 in 5 years.

PAH!

[demzie]

bye bye zumzero

EDIT: See you in about 6 weeks

[BitCsByBit]

zumzero, at least you have admitted what you are doing in this thread, others are not as upfront in admitting their agenda:

If you do not own any LC shares, and you are here only to 'help', why dont you just go to sleep or anything? Is this that entertaining?

I'm getting my revenge on Mab because of the way he carried on in the ActM threads.  No more, no less. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.  It's that simple.  And yes, it is quite entertaining.

Are you insane or just incredibly stupid? If you want revenge on me, come back in November.

I had a real effect on share price tonight by pointing out some home truths about this company.  I had zero financial motivation to do so.  I was disgusted with the way you conducted yourself on the ActM thread for a prolonged period and am now happy that I feel I have paid you back the favour.  I don't care if you make money or lose money or if this company succeeds.  I simply wanted you to be on the receiving end of some good old fashioned fud.  I am not insane, nor am I stupid.  I am intelligent and very well balanced.  Good night.  

[zumzero]

Good luck boys.  Hope it works out for you.   

[crumbs]

Labcoiners!
Stop dwelling on your misfortunes and start thinking positively.  Labcoin gave you plenty of lemons, let's make some lemonade!

1.  Wrapping paper:  While the labcoin logo fails on many levels, and the roundy graphic looks like a pizza, it is nonetheless blue -- a pretty color.  The paper used for photo backgrounds could be used to individually wrap rolls of toilet paper or bespoke feminine napkins.

2.  Chips:  They're dead, Jim.  But cats love 'em -- many Chinese cats are already enjoying the Labcoin chippery, as is evidenced by the half-empty tray.  The trays, in conjunction with several chips, can also be used to train Labcoin investors for their future employment in the high-tech industry.
Get them chips into them holes before the buzzer sounds!

3.  Boards:  Sure, they're a product of a child playing with a free copy of Eagle -- we all have to start somewhere.  They are attractively colored and can be marketed to dog owners -- ideal for scooping up those "wet ones."

"I'll brush later Daddy, i'm investing!"

[boyohi]

Labcoiners!
Stop dwelling on your misfortunes and start thinking positively.  Labcoin gave you plenty of lemons, let's make some lemonade!

1.  Wrapping paper:  While the labcoin logo fails on many levels, and the roundy graphic looks like a pizza, it is nonetheless blue -- a pretty color.  The paper used for photo backgrounds could be used to individually wrap rolls of toilet paper or bespoke feminine napkins.

2.  Chips:  They're dead, Jim.  But cats love 'em -- many Chinese cats are already enjoying the Labcoin chippery, as is evidenced by the half-empty tray.  The trays, in conjunction with several chips, can also be used to train Labcoin investors for their future employment in the high-tech industry.
Get them chips into them holes before the buzzer sounds!

3.  Boards:  Sure, they're a product of a child playing with a free copy of Eagle -- we all have to start somewhere.  They are attractively colored and can be marketed to dog owners -- ideal for scooping up those "wet ones."

"I'll brush later Daddy, i'm investing!"

Now we got a real cheerleader

[jinyoubei]

Did you even bother to read Chinese laws?

500 pages is not far away, keep up the good work guys!

Compared to 24 hours ago, the silence over the last hours suggests that our beloved bears are done.

The silence over the past few hours suggests that the ActM cheer-leading squad has taken a break from Labcoin, probably due to the fact that they have issues with their own share price - currently down to the IPO level on BTCT.

In the last 90 pages, 90% of the posts were posted by the heavily invested ActM FUDsters.

To be honest, I expected some teething issues and I'm not surprised, given that they did not test the PCB's before ordering them:

- PCB/Components for miners are expected to arrive shortly (a few days) after chips. To speed up miner production the PCB has not been tested prior to order but thorough simulations have been ran and Labcoin does not expect any issues with the PCB. SHOULD a problem arise Labcoin expects less than 1 week until new PCB can be produced, so even a worst case scenario has functioning PCB in-hand in about 2 weeks.

These types of issues occur and I'm confident that they will be ironed out shortly.

At the end of the day, for every share that was sold there was a buyer.   

Edit: Typo

If Its PCB design issue, then labcoin was lying blatantly when he said they had begun hashing at 2TH and everything is fine. I don't think they will be so stupid that they risk their credibility  to cover a error can be easily fixed in 1 week

More likely it was a issue out of their expectation. For example, The board worked well for a while and then malfunctioned due to heat or the software does not scale to large number of chips.

Anyway, could we try to guess, if labcoin never lies, what's the possible situation now? They are indeed hashing, but is not stable. They can only provide a mining address couple of days later but not now. They cannot provide photos without further confusing investors.

For me, the only plausible explanation is they don't have full control of their assembly and mining partners. All they have in hand are some sample chips and boards. Their parter in China refuse giving any photos taken in their side, and their reason or excuse may be  they don't want disclose any evidence that they are involved in this project, since illegal IPO may lead to death penalty in China.

[boyohi]

Did you even bother to read Chinese laws?

For me, the only plausible explanation is they don't have full control of their assembly and mining partners. All they have in hand are some sample chips and boards. Their parter in China refuse giving any photos taken in their side, and their reason or excuse may be  they don't want disclose any evidence that they are involved in this project, since illegal IPO may lead to death penalty in China.

No need. Americans know everything

[BitThink]

Did you even bother to read Chinese laws?

500 pages is not far away, keep up the good work guys!

Compared to 24 hours ago, the silence over the last hours suggests that our beloved bears are done.

The silence over the past few hours suggests that the ActM cheer-leading squad has taken a break from Labcoin, probably due to the fact that they have issues with their own share price - currently down to the IPO level on BTCT.

In the last 90 pages, 90% of the posts were posted by the heavily invested ActM FUDsters.

To be honest, I expected some teething issues and I'm not surprised, given that they did not test the PCB's before ordering them:

- PCB/Components for miners are expected to arrived shortly (a few days) after chips. To speed up miner production the PCB has not been tested prior to order but thorough simulations have been ran and Labcoin does not expect any issues with the PCB. SHOULD a problem arise Labcoin expects less than 1 week until new PCB can be produced, so even a worst case scenario has functioning PCB in-hand in about 2 weeks.

These types of issues occur and I'm confident that they will be ironed out shortly.

At the end of the day, for every share that was sold there was a buyer.  

Edit: Typo

If Its PCB design issue, then labcoin was lying blatantly when he said they had begun hashing at 2TH and everything is fine. I don't think they will be so stupid that they risk their credibility  to cover a error can be easily fixed in 1 week

More likely it was a issue out of their expectation. For example, The board worked well for a while and then malfunctioned due to heat or the software does not scale to large number of chips.

Anyway, could we try to guess, if labcoin never lies, what's the possible situation now? They are indeed hashing, but is not stable. They can only provide a mining address couple of days later but not now. They cannot provide photos without further confusing investors.

For me, the only plausible explanation is they don't have full control of their assembly and mining partners. All they have in hand are some sample chips and boards. Their parter in China refuse giving any photos taken in their side, and their reason or excuse may be  they don't want disclose any evidence that they are involved in this project, since illegal IPO may lead to death penalty in China.

BtcGarden MyMiner both canceled their IPO. What's the reason in your opinion?

[Ytterbium]

If you don't think a board can work without visible traces on the top layer can you explain how the bitfury H-board actually works, when there are no visible, top-layer traces between the chips and the capacitors or anything else, except for closed loops that connect back to themselves?

My apologies if I'm wrong, it would be a good thing if I was. But the board you presented has a few things that the ones posted by Labcoin do not, such as:
- Soldered chips (optional)
- Other soldered components (optional)
- Chips have traces running from their pads, visibly (optional)
- Vias visible showing the board is clearly multi-layer (optional)
- Several components around each chip (optional - could be Labcoin are super pro and don't need anything outside the chip package or they are on the other side/other board)
- An interface array of pads where power connects (required - they only show one power pin per each chip)
- An interface array of pads where the other board connects (required)

If those things are real and they work, that's quite an efficient and breakthrough design that nobody so far has made for bitcoin.

Right. I have said all along that the PCBs look strange to me. However, I was only pointing out that you can't actually say that the chip pads are completely disconnected from the rest of the board, with the implication that Labcoin is a total scam.  While there are some visible traces on the H-board, they're only on one side of the chip, the other four sides aren't visibly connected. (Of course, on that board it's possible the traces just can't be seen because they're under the chip and connected to visible vias.)

As far as external interface headers, they may just be on the other side of the board.

Anyway, people have speculated that this was somehow a botched job from the PCB fabricators - that either Labcoin or the fabricators themselves somehow messed up.  That seems entirely plausible, and if so all Labcoin needs to do is fix the screwup and order new boards. I certainly hope that's all that's wrong, and if that's the case labcoin isn't actually in all that much trouble.

From reading your posts it seemed as though you thought there was no way the PCB could possibly function, like you didn't think there could be any vias hidden under the solder pads (which there could be) or anything at all on the other side (like headers for communication)

It was kind of annoying to see a post from someone who didn't know the difference between vias and traces and seemingly unaware of the fact that you can put things on both sides of a board acting as though they somehow had the ability to definitively declare that the board couldn't possibly work.  

(If we saw the other side of the board and it was blank, we would be able to say that. On the other hand, if it has data output headers that would show how it could work – all the more reason why it's annoying they refuse to show any more pics, which is just completely ridiculous, IMO. )

True. I could make a fake design, get a board, find some tray of 44 pins chips to match the board, and post some hand-shaky pictures with an old DSLR that can't clean dust off the sensor.

But if I did that, there would be discrepancies between real designs and my fake design (me being incompetent at this as demonstrated by the users of this forum in reply to my posts) . Such as bad layout, unconnected pads, missing pads, missing logic connectors, oversized elements, undersized elements, non-standard design choices, that could totally blow up my fake design pictures.

Sure, but it's hard to imagine that anyone who knows enough about PCB design to successfully send a Gerber file to a PCB fabrication place would be able to come up with a much more "normal" looking PCB.

What annoys me about the "labcoin is a scam" people is that they act as though Labcoin is just some random person in their mom's basement doing nothing at all other then photoshopping pictures of chips and boards  and everything else, and that the whole thing was a scam from the beginning. And while there clearly are actual problems, a lot of the stuff that the FUDsters have been saying has been total B.S. Someone was saying that the photos of the board were photoshopped

Now, on the other hand - it's possible that a company might start out legitimate and gradually shift and become scammy over time in order to cover up mistakes, rather then admitting them and losing money.  And for now that is a real risk with labcoin, given what we've seen so far. It's especially worrisome that Labcoin (the user) is directly asking people to buy shares, saying they're cheap and so on.

I am not at all trying to defend Labcoin here.  They need to present the technical information about their boards and chips (In fact, I think they should share the gerber files for those boards so we can see exactly what's going on)

But, the most plausible explanation is just some screwup with the PCBs, and that they are working to fix it. Not that they are a bunch of scammer/trolls who don't know anything at all about electronics,  yet somehow managed get circuit boards manufactured with no actual connections on them.

[Ytterbium]

Did you even bother to read Chinese laws?

For me, the only plausible explanation is they don't have full control of their assembly and mining partners. All they have in hand are some sample chips and boards. Their parter in China refuse giving any photos taken in their side, and their reason or excuse may be  they don't want disclose any evidence that they are involved in this project, since illegal IPO may lead to death penalty in China.

No need. Americans know everything

Labcoin is in HongKong, not mainland china.  HK has a far more western-style legal system, and no death penalty. People in HK have a high degree of civil/human rights