CoinTerra announces its first ASIC - Hash-Rate greater than 500 GH/s

[Puppet]

yeah because designing a bitcoin asic is so complex, asic design neophytes like friedcat and bitfury could pull it off.  Heck even BFL did it, eventually.

Seriously, you're being ridiculous.  Nothing guarantees CT will deliver on time and on spec, but their credentials most certainly isnt an argument against them.

[1715642143]

1715642143

[iCEBREAKER]

yeah because designing a bitcoin asic is so complex, asic design neophytes like friedcat and bitfury could pull it off.  Heck even BFL did it, eventually.

Seriously, you're being ridiculous.  Nothing guarantees CT will deliver on time and on spec, but their credentials most certainly isnt an argument against them.

Not all Bitcoin ASICs are the same.

You can't compare friedcat's first gen ASIC and bitfury's second gen ASIC to HashFast's 3rd gen ASIC.

28nm is nothing like the larger feature sizes, 1 billion transistors pumping out 400GH/s is nothing like tiny previous designs.

Cointerra's credentials are most certainly an argument against them. 

Their expertise is throwing the IP Samsung licensed from ARM onto a SOC.  Low power, low gate activity ratio SOCs, not huge hot high-performance 3rd gen Bitcoin ASICs.

Worst of all, and most damning to Cointerra's reputation, is that they intentionally misrepresented their limited expertise as expert level guru wisdom.

Nobody made Cointerra say they were going to tape out first week of Oct.  They said that to get your money, and you believed them. 

Every hour that passes beyond their self-imposed deadline is another blow to their already limited credibility.

[Puppet]

Not all Bitcoin ASICs are the same.

You can't compare friedcat's first gen ASIC and bitfury's second gen ASIC to HashFast's 3rd gen ASIC.

28nm is nothing like the larger feature sizes, 1 billion transistors pumping out 400GH/s is nothing like tiny previous designs.

Cointerra's credentials are most certainly an argument against them.  

Their expertise is throwing the IP Samsung licensed from ARM onto a SOC.  Low power, low gate activity ratio SOCs, not huge hot high-performance 3rd gen Bitcoin ASICs.

Neither Friedcat nor (afaik) bitfury ever even designed an asic. Any asic. friedcat did get help from some people who did with experience in... embedded soc's.

This "high power" "400 billion transistor" FUDis just that: FUD. Copy pasting a single hashing core a few hundred times isnt exactly the hardest thing on the planet, especially not when compared to laying out a modern SoC with half a dozen clockdomains.  And if anything, designing for low power is what really takes skill and experience, its the hardest thing there is.  High power is a pretty simple problem by comparison. Lastly, designing for 28nm also isnt meaningfully harder than for other process nodes. The fabbing is a different story, but thats done by tsmc/GF/whatever. Being ex samsung, they are likely the only bitcoin asic designers with 28nm experience.

Anyway, its clear you have an agenda here, and Im getting really tired of this mentality of rooting for one company and fudding all the others (wtf is up with that?), so your ignore button is about to get a bit more yellow, spare yourself the trouble of answering.

[iCEBREAKER]

Neither Friedcat nor (afaik) bitfury ever even designed an asic. Any asic. friedcat did get help from some people who did with experience in... embedded soc's.

This "high power" "400 billion transistor" FUDis just that: FUD. Copy pasting a single hashing core a few hundred times isnt exactly the hardest thing on the planet, especially not when compared to laying out a modern SoC with half a dozen clockdomains.  And if anything, designing for low power is what really takes skill and experience, its the hardest thing there is.  High power is a pretty simple problem by comparison. Lastly, designing for 28nm also isnt meaningfully harder than for other process nodes. The fabbing is a different story, but thats done by tsmc/GF/whatever. Being ex samsung, they are likely the only bitcoin asic designers with 28nm experience.

Anyway, its clear you have an agenda here, and Im getting really tired of this mentality of rooting for one company and fudding all the others (wtf is up with that?), so your ignore button is about to get a bit more yellow, spare yourself the trouble of answering.

   Running away are we?  You can't win the debate based on facts, so you change the topic to personalities.

And here we thought you wanted to have an intelligent discussion.

Actually it's obvious you don't when you intentionally misstate simple things like 'Friedcat != ASICminer' and '1 billion registers times 400GH/sec must = 400 billion transistors.'   

Huff and puff all you like, it won't help Cointerra get their RTL done or tape-out any sooner.

Go ahead, muddy the water until those you are trying to fool can't follow WTF you're talking about.  It won't help Cointerra design their first 28nm chip from scratch, or help OpenSilicon do their first original 28nm layout.

Throwing some ARM IP on an SOC for Samsung's Hitler phones is simple, even at 28nm.

Designing an entirely new chip, coding the RTL, and getting the physical architecture done correctly is totally different matter.

Cointerra has just realized this, that's why they've STFU recently.  Perhaps you should join them in being conspicuously silent?   

[willphase]

this whole debate won't be settled until cointerra announce how far they are with production, which they seem reluctant to do - hopefully they will do so soon since the faith in their company directly affects their bottom line.

Until then, there's not much point arguing without any facts.

Will

[Loredo]

Im getting really tired of this mentality of rooting for one company and fudding all the others (wtf is up with that?)

It's easy psychology to understand, if you think about it.  

If there were X companies, each with an in-hand product, a price, and a performance, then there would be nothing to talk about.  Different strokes, different folks, maybe, but just everyone optimizing their utility over the set of alternatives.

The pre-order model has made this akin to a sporting season.  You follow your favorite team, win some, lose some.  You speculate on the team rosters' relative skills.  You tune into sportsbitcointalk forum every day to check out the day's box scores.  And, soon you're an emotionally invested fan, supporting your team, win or lose, and trashing the competing teams.

[Dabs]

CoinTerra.... .... come out come out where ever you are.

[Paladin69]

this whole debate won't be settled until cointerra announce how far they are with production, which they seem reluctant to do - hopefully they will do so soon since the faith in their company directly affects their bottom line.

Until then, there's not much point arguing without any facts.

Will

There is no debate.  Don't think KnC's customers "won" just because they launched before CoinTerra and HashFast.  KnC may have won, but not their customers.

Nobody is a winner in this new era of climbing difficulty.  That is the sad truth.  Get your refunds if you can get them.

[joeventura]

They won't deliver on time and even if they did the diff will be so high that ROI will be impossible.

Just like every other ASIC vendor the greed is too strong to do the right thing for the customer.

Avalon, BFL, KNC none could deliver a product that returned more than it cost and CoinTerra also will fail.

[Bicknellski]

They won't deliver on time and even if they did the diff will be so high that ROI will be impossible.

Just like every other ASIC vendor the greed is too strong to do the right thing for the customer.

Avalon, BFL, KNC none could deliver a product that returned more than it cost and CoinTerra also will fail.

Greed? What about profit for the company producing the chips and miners?

I agree up to a point about 'gouging' customers like asicminer or avalon or BFL did but given that there is really no where to lower the costs of production of chips, boards etc everyone now has to accept this is an era of mine at a loss or to break even given the numbers. The only way to skin this cat is for everyone to work together to set quotas not unlike the OPEC nations do and limit that hash rate so that miners can get some income, but we know that is not going to happen. Let us be fair and recognize that there are some companies making a good effort but at this point there is no likely relief from losses on mining. We all know where this will lead to a potential collapse of mining entirely. I suspect 28nm chips will have some fire sales attached to them come 2014 and the writing is on the wall especially for those who have not shown any data / proof of chip design and production.

[3DX4D]

They won't deliver on time and even if they did the diff will be so high that ROI will be impossible.

Just like every other ASIC vendor the greed is too strong to do the right thing for the customer.

Avalon, BFL, KNC none could deliver a product that returned more than it cost and CoinTerra also will fail.

I thought most of Avalon B1 owners got a healthy positive ROI calculated in BTC or Fiat.  Guess those were the luckiest ~300 miners to date? Sad really when put in that context.

[Bicknellski]

They won't deliver on time and even if they did the diff will be so high that ROI will be impossible.

Just like every other ASIC vendor the greed is too strong to do the right thing for the customer.

Avalon, BFL, KNC none could deliver a product that returned more than it cost and CoinTerra also will fail.

I thought most of Avalon B1 owners got a healthy positive ROI calculated in BTC or Fiat.  Guess those were the luckiest ~300 miners to date? Sad really when put in that context.

B2, B3... and chips. Need I say more? How about selling the chips out the backdoor and delaying shipments so they could mine more using their units? Seriously 300 vs millions of dollars is no debate on gouging or hashrate fixing. See BFL for the same plan.

[DPoS]

Cointerra's credentials are most certainly an argument against them.  

Their expertise is throwing the IP Samsung licensed from ARM onto a SOC.  Low power, low gate activity ratio SOCs, not huge hot high-performance 3rd gen Bitcoin ASICs.

Worst of all, and most damning to Cointerra's reputation, is that they intentionally misrepresented their limited expertise as expert level guru wisdom.

have to agree... I've seen chaps like that in big corp do the whiteboard fluffjob presentations to a mob of dumb managers just to get 6 month contracts and then shower them with all kinds of justifications why shit aint getting done until they just leave and hunt for the next contract

dazzle with bullshit

[dropt]

B2, B3... and chips. Need I say more? How about selling the chips out the backdoor and delaying shipments so they could mine more using their units? Seriously 300 vs millions of dollars is no debate on gouging or hashrate fixing. See BFL for the same plan.

Some (maybe most?) of the B2 owners have achieved a return.  I know I have.

[iCEBREAKER]

Cointerra's credentials are most certainly an argument against them.  

Their expertise is throwing the IP Samsung licensed from ARM onto a SOC.  Low power, low gate activity ratio SOCs, not huge hot high-performance 3rd gen Bitcoin ASICs.

Worst of all, and most damning to Cointerra's reputation, is that they intentionally misrepresented their limited expertise as expert level guru wisdom.

have to agree... I've seen chaps like that in big corp do the whiteboard fluffjob presentations to a mob of dumb managers just to get 6 month contracts and then shower them with all kinds of justifications why shit aint getting done until they just leave and hunt for the next contract

dazzle with bullshit

Cointerra's core competence is (exactly as you aptly described) giving "whiteboard fluffjob presentations" to "a mob of dumb managers."

They are heavy on Powerpoint and Excel sheets of rosy predictions based on wishful thinking and optimistic best-case ballpark estimates.

They are short on actual expertise with logical and physical architecture of original 28nm designs, as demonstrated by their inability to get the RTL done on time.

Cointerra customers and investors need to start asking

Where is the tape-out announcement and PR from OpenSilicon?

If the ~$5,000,000 for the NRE was not able to be collected, what is the plan for wind-down and refunds?

[600watt]

but they do offer a refund, don´t they ? 

[crumbs]

Good news everyone!  Cointerra's now on PicoStocks!

https://picostocks.com/stocks/view/31

[600watt]

Good news everyone!  Cointerra's now on PicoStocks!

https://picostocks.com/stocks/view/31

"Initial PicoStocks offering of this asset has been closed. We are waiting for the final processing of the sales contract between the offering party and PicoStocks. The trading on PicoStocks will resume imediately after contract signature. If the offering party fails to sign the sales contract or to send the signed documents to our IPO office within 2 weeks the funds will be returned to the investors. Current investors are listed below. "

A bit worrying...

panic refund modus alert

[RoadStress]

Cointerra's credentials are most certainly an argument against them.  

Their expertise is throwing the IP Samsung licensed from ARM onto a SOC.  Low power, low gate activity ratio SOCs, not huge hot high-performance 3rd gen Bitcoin ASICs.

Worst of all, and most damning to Cointerra's reputation, is that they intentionally misrepresented their limited expertise as expert level guru wisdom.

have to agree... I've seen chaps like that in big corp do the whiteboard fluffjob presentations to a mob of dumb managers just to get 6 month contracts and then shower them with all kinds of justifications why shit aint getting done until they just leave and hunt for the next contract

dazzle with bullshit

Cointerra's core competence is (exactly as you aptly described) giving "whiteboard fluffjob presentations" to "a mob of dumb managers."

They are heavy on Powerpoint and Excel sheets of rosy predictions based on wishful thinking and optimistic best-case ballpark estimates.

They are short on actual expertise with logical and physical architecture of original 28nm designs, as demonstrated by their inability to get the RTL done on time.

Cointerra customers and investors need to start asking

Where is the tape-out announcement and PR from OpenSilicon?

If the ~$5,000,000 for the NRE was not able to be collected, what is the plan for wind-down and refunds?

Welcome to the "american" style of doing business. I have a feeling that labcoin did the same. A lot of talk, little real facts.

[greaterninja]

they have raised approximately 20 million usd in btc.   that more than enough to produce 28nm asic chips by the millions.  now timing?  thats a totally different story.