[BitFunder] IceDrill.ASIC IPO (235 Thash Mining Operation powered by HashFast)

[TheGovernedSelf]

Hmm.  1BTC gets you exactly... 6 Satan 6 Satan 6 Satan !!1!!

And the CEO's forum handle is "Dead Earth"

Too convenient to be a coincidence, in my opinion.

[Stuartuk]

So much for VE's credibility.  His "word" isn't worth the electrons it's transmitted by.

A bit of a desperate jibe there and whooops it's backfired - 0.005859 right now.

You sad little man.

[iCEBREAKER]

[Activemining] prices will continue to stabilize at .006 until we have some real news.  You have my word.

Last trade: 0.00443.   

So much for VE's credibility.  His "word" isn't worth the electrons it's transmitted by.

I meant BTCT, and I have been doing a good job of keeping it close to .006.

OK, thanks for 'clarifying' and qualifying your previous blanket statement.  TIL "at" = "close to" and "close to" = within 6%   

Have fun throwing your money down a hole, as it becomes increasingly undeniable that Avalon's chips are going to be worthless by the time they get to steamboat, much less ACTM.   

I like how steamboat is all "we're still optimistic" yet has closed order #7 and is issuing refunds.  Must be some new kind of optimism, or else he's stuck in the denial/bargaining stages of loss and grief.   

[VolanicEruptor]

[Activemining] prices will continue to stabilize at .006 until we have some real news.  You have my word.

Last trade: 0.00443.   

So much for VE's credibility.  His "word" isn't worth the electrons it's transmitted by.

I meant BTCT, and I have been doing a good job of keeping it close to .006.

OK, thanks for 'clarifying' and qualifying your previous blanket statement.  TIL "at" = "close to" and "close to" = within 6%   

Have fun throwing your money down a hole, as it becomes increasingly undeniable that Avalon's chips are going to be worthless by the time they get to steamboat, much less ACTM.   

I like how steamboat is all "we're still optimistic" yet has closed order #7 and is issuing refunds.  Must be some new kind of optimism, or else he's stuck in the denial/bargaining stages of loss and grief.   

i could throw two grand at btct right now and put it right at .006 for you, obviously i cant monitor the price 24/7 and keep it at exactly .006, and i think everyone understands this.  I'm pretty sure .0058 is adequate for now. . and please tell me, what does easic have to do with avalon chips?  we are not relying on avalon chips to become successful

[iCEBREAKER]

i could throw two grand at btct right now and put it right at .006 for you, obviously i cant monitor the price 24/7 and keep it at exactly .006, and i think everyone understands this.  I'm pretty sure .0058 is adequate for now. . and please tell me, what does easic have to do with avalon chips?  we are not relying on avalon chips to become successful

Avalon has nothing to do with eASIC (which nobody except you mentioned).   

Activemining, however, is a different story.  They are completely dependant on Avalon/steamboat to meet their stated growth projections and maintain dividends until their own 28nm chips begin hashing.

From your buddies at BTCT:

https://btct.co/security/ACTIVEMINING

An order of Avalon chips from steamboat's batch #1, for 68 Klondike-16 boards, rated at 68*16*282 = 307 GH/s;
An order of 20,000 Avalon chips (end of May and beginging of June orders), for a combined hashrate of 20,000*282 = 5,640 GH/s.

In total, around 6,377 GH/s, [WAS] expected to be fully operational in the middle of August.
 

Vbs is going to have to bring his increasingly inaccurate spreadsheet up to date eventually, because it's rapidly slipping from 'slightly off' to 'pipe dream that will never materialize.'   

Once that reality is digested by the market, your puny bid wall will melt like Velveeta, into toxic cheesy goo.   

[iCEBREAKER]

Why do I always imagine a little kid gloating about finding the first easter egg every time I read your posts. *Yawn*

Because of your inability/lazy refusal to articulate on-point responses to the actual content of my posts, and an egotistical desire to get in some little ad hom dig at me regardless, out of pure spite and jealousy. 

Any other silly questions?  I'm here to help; I live to serve!   

[Stuartuk]

I like how steamboat is all "we're still optimistic" yet has closed order #7 and is issuing refunds.  Must be some new kind of optimism, or else he's stuck in the denial/bargaining stages of loss and grief.    

mmm I'm sure you are not wishing to intentionally misquote or misrepresent anybody but your little excerpt is not only incorrectly quoted but also gives a false impression of doubt through your poor contextualization ......sooo here is the full quote:

'We remain optimistic the chips which have already been ordered will be delivered, though we do not have any information as to when our orders will be fulfilled. We are exploring our options, and will continue to monitor the situation closely. We will post an update the moment we have definitive information.'

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=192916.0

So I can't see what you are making a fuss about, that's perfectly clear.

Please try to get back OT this is the IceDriller thread after all. Thankyou.


EDIT opps, almost forgot -  

[iCEBREAKER]

Oops, I must have learned to selectively quote from Goody Stuart!  

Unfortunately, the post does not provide any specifics on shipping dates moving forward, and offers very little information about the delays experienced to this point. Our inquiries by other means specifically regarding our orders have remain unanswered, and we have not received any information as to the status of our batches from either Yifu or any member of his team.

For these reasons, we have chosen to close Batch 7. Those who have placed an order for Batch 7 have been sent an email with further information.

Vbs really should update his spreadsheet to reflect this adverse development, and that goes double for the Activemining asset profiles on Bitfunder/BTCT.

I'm not surprised you ACTM cultists prefer deflecting from this terrible news to cute fluff about Easter eggs! 

EDIT:

[Stuartuk]

Oops, I must have learned to selectively quote from Goody Stuart!   

Unfortunately, the post does not provide any specifics on shipping dates moving forward, and offers very little information about the delays experienced to this point. Our inquiries by other means specifically regarding our orders have remain unanswered, and we have not received any information as to the status of our batches from either Yifu or any member of his team.

For these reasons, we have chosen to close Batch 7. Those who have placed an order for Batch 7 have been sent an email with further information.

I didn't question the statement about batch 7 - did I???

I can read that he has cancelled the order for batch7, as can anyone who follows the link I just posted. You tart.

[Stuartuk]

Your EDIT:

deflecting from this terrible news

Again, I just posted the link for all to see. Are you literally insane?

You making another killer deal - now that would be terrible news, how long would you bang on about it for next time? I couldn't abide another week of your smug and self-praising petty little postings about how many people you have turned over. For this reason alone I hope you get hit by a bus, or your internet gets cut. Either would be fine but one is more preferable than the other.

[will]

No new shares will be issued. The maximum amount of shares is 50 million.

If all shares will be sold before 3rd November, how new shares will be isued? 100k daily, 1M daily? Average daily sell from previous week?

[will]

Apologies, things have been a bit busy this side... I have no idea what's the craic with page 18 and VE?

Anyone care to give me a concise breakdown? Don't want to open a can of "off-topic", so would appreciate it by PM if someone doesn't mind too much.

[helixone]

I agree, so far DeaDTerra was very responsive and supportive. People not happy with this IPO can leave freely without losses.

Of course he will be responsive and supportive. He's asking for millions of dollars without a plan that benefits himself and his partners so much.

The doubts and criticism have nothing to do with how nice he might be.

IceDrill is paying out .0016 to bitfunder shareholders before a single dime goes to DeadTerra.

Is that true?

So far he hasn't confirmed that all funds raised from IPO are being used to the benefit of investors - so it's not clear yet whether some of the IPO funds ARE going to DeadTerra.  I'm not claiming that he IS going to pocket some of the IPO funds - just pointing out that he hasn't yet clarified that detail.

EDIT: There wouldn't be anything 'wrong' with a cut of IPO funds being taken - but it would mean your statement was wrong.  The impression a quick read of the contract gives is that it's shares/revenue share in a company being sold.  But closer examination suggests it may actually be a PMB that charges expenses and reinvests (compounding profit OR loss) - with any benefit of cheaper prices from large-scale purchase not actually being passed through to investors.  If ALL funds raised from IPO are staying in the company and being used for the benefit of investors then your comment is true - and it's a decent offering.  I'm not convinced that's the case - but obviously DT can clarify if he chooses to and hopefully I'm just reading too much into what wasn't stated.

Deprived,

I am convinced IceDrill is a shitty PMB in a thinly veiled disguise of an ASICMINER clone. Basically they are selling future hashes at a fixed price, and forcing people to reinvest 25% of mining profits in more hashing power at a price the issuer controls. It's basically a PMB guaranteed to only make money for the issuers, and their hardware suppliers (if they aren't secretly one and the same). The difference between this and a run of the mill PMB is they plan to mask some of those losses by having a depreciation timeline that's been stretched out a bit, so it takes a little longer for it to become apparent that it is a money losing investment.

Best as I can tell, this investment will only make money for the issuers, their hardware suppliers, and perhaps a few flippers, if the issuers aren't too aggressive about issuing more shares too quickly. (Bear in mind they are allowing themselves the right to issue an additional 20,000,000 shares after the IPO sells out, so be careful trying to flip.)

I will say, it's really ballsy in the scale they are doing it at. It's also kinda scary that they have a bitcoin-assets exchange operator backing it. (Ukyo). I'm also very sad to see DeadTerra and Ukyo frittering away any goodwill they had left, for a relatively short term naked money grab.

-helixone

P.S. - Best as I can tell this asset is being setup to create a captive buying group for the "HashFast" ASIC producer, as well as suck up as many coins as possible out of the bitcoin-assets marketplace.
P.S.S. - It's a times like these I really wish that there was margin/shorting on the exchanges to keep crappy behavior like this in check. (This security, ActiveMining, Labcoin, BTCgarden and perhaps even ASICMINER could all use a healthy dose of very large shorting right about now.)

[Stuartuk]

BTCGarden doesn't even exist anymore - keep up.

[Vbs]

(...)
Activemining, however, is a different story.  They are completely dependant on Avalon/steamboat to meet their stated growth projections and maintain dividends until their own 28nm chips begin hashing.

From your buddies at BTCT:

https://btct.co/security/ACTIVEMINING

An order of Avalon chips from steamboat's batch #1, for 68 Klondike-16 boards, rated at 68*16*282 = 307 GH/s;
An order of 20,000 Avalon chips (end of May and beginging of June orders), for a combined hashrate of 20,000*282 = 5,640 GH/s.

In total, around 6,377 GH/s, [WAS] expected to be fully operational in the middle of August.
 

Vbs is going to have to bring his increasingly inaccurate spreadsheet up to date eventually, because it's rapidly slipping from 'slightly off' to 'pipe dream that will never materialize.'   
(...)

1) This is the IceDrill thread, so try to respect that.

2) Increasingly inaccurate? My estimation for August global hashrate (478TH/s) is still above the current mark, so it's still very valid. Months are unimportant, the only thing that matters for estimating profits is the global hashrate at the time when the hardware is put online.

[kingcrimson]

I agree, so far DeaDTerra was very responsive and supportive. People not happy with this IPO can leave freely without losses.

Of course he will be responsive and supportive. He's asking for millions of dollars without a plan that benefits himself and his partners so much.

The doubts and criticism have nothing to do with how nice he might be.

IceDrill is paying out .0016 to bitfunder shareholders before a single dime goes to DeadTerra.

Is that true?

So far he hasn't confirmed that all funds raised from IPO are being used to the benefit of investors - so it's not clear yet whether some of the IPO funds ARE going to DeadTerra.  I'm not claiming that he IS going to pocket some of the IPO funds - just pointing out that he hasn't yet clarified that detail.

EDIT: There wouldn't be anything 'wrong' with a cut of IPO funds being taken - but it would mean your statement was wrong.  The impression a quick read of the contract gives is that it's shares/revenue share in a company being sold.  But closer examination suggests it may actually be a PMB that charges expenses and reinvests (compounding profit OR loss) - with any benefit of cheaper prices from large-scale purchase not actually being passed through to investors.  If ALL funds raised from IPO are staying in the company and being used for the benefit of investors then your comment is true - and it's a decent offering.  I'm not convinced that's the case - but obviously DT can clarify if he chooses to and hopefully I'm just reading too much into what wasn't stated.

Deprived,

I am convinced IceDrill is a shitty PMB in a thinly veiled disguise of an ASICMINER clone. Basically they are selling future hashes at a fixed price, and forcing people to reinvest 25% of mining profits in more hashing power at a price the issuer controls. It's basically a PMB guaranteed to only make money for the issuers, and their hardware suppliers (if they aren't secretly one and the same). The difference between this and a run of the mill PMB is they plan to mask some of those losses by having a depreciation timeline that's been stretched out a bit, so it takes a little longer for it to become apparent that it is a money losing investment.

Best as I can tell, this investment will only make money for the issuers, their hardware suppliers, and perhaps a few flippers, if the issuers aren't too aggressive about issuing more shares too quickly. (Bear in mind they are allowing themselves the right to issue an additional 20,000,000 shares after the IPO sells out, so be careful trying to flip.)

I will say, it's really ballsy in the scale they are doing it at. It's also kinda scary that they have a bitcoin-assets exchange operator backing it. (Ukyo). I'm also very sad to see DeadTerra and Ukyo frittering away any goodwill they had left, for a relatively short term naked money grab.

-helixone

P.S. - Best as I can tell this asset is being setup to create a captive buying group for the "HashFast" ASIC producer, as well as suck up as many coins as possible out of the bitcoin-assets marketplace.
P.S.S. - It's a times like these I really wish that there was margin/shorting on the exchanges to keep crappy behavior like this in check. (This security, ActiveMining, Labcoin, BTCgarden and perhaps even ASICMINER could all use a healthy dose of very large shorting right about now.)

There is still hope that btct will reject it. If it does (rightly so), I'm liquidating all my bitfunder stock and moving everything to btct.
We can be glad one exchange actually has standards for what they approve.
Who knows though, this whole thing is a circus. A lot of people with no dog in the fight pointed this out, while all pro-IceDrill are just trying to pump their shares.

[CanOpener]

Sorry, I am not that good with Math but how much would it cost to buy all those hardware from HashFast and then set up a farm with this size? Has anyone estimated the total cost required that is needed to run this operation? Do you think IPO money is sufficient to cover all that cost?

I don't mean to quesiton a HERO member since I am a newbie in all this but I am just curious whether someone knows some real facts (or anything close to facts).

I agree, so far DeaDTerra was very responsive and supportive. People not happy with this IPO can leave freely without losses.

Of course he will be responsive and supportive. He's asking for millions of dollars without a plan that benefits himself and his partners so much.

The doubts and criticism have nothing to do with how nice he might be.

IceDrill is paying out .0016 to bitfunder shareholders before a single dime goes to DeadTerra.

Is that true?

So far he hasn't confirmed that all funds raised from IPO are being used to the benefit of investors - so it's not clear yet whether some of the IPO funds ARE going to DeadTerra.  I'm not claiming that he IS going to pocket some of the IPO funds - just pointing out that he hasn't yet clarified that detail.

EDIT: There wouldn't be anything 'wrong' with a cut of IPO funds being taken - but it would mean your statement was wrong.  The impression a quick read of the contract gives is that it's shares/revenue share in a company being sold.  But closer examination suggests it may actually be a PMB that charges expenses and reinvests (compounding profit OR loss) - with any benefit of cheaper prices from large-scale purchase not actually being passed through to investors.  If ALL funds raised from IPO are staying in the company and being used for the benefit of investors then your comment is true - and it's a decent offering.  I'm not convinced that's the case - but obviously DT can clarify if he chooses to and hopefully I'm just reading too much into what wasn't stated.

[CanOpener]

Is re-investing 25% a bad thing? From what I have read so far, hardware is a depreciating asset in this mining game. If you don't upgrade constantly, you would be left in the dust, no?

Agree that it is a good deal for the hardware seller but I thought this IPO is for the farm, not hardware seller, right? So where does the issuer profit come in? Wouldn't the hardware supplier be smart enough to squeeze every last cent out of the selling price of chips to maximize profit from the middle man? (ie. do a quick discounted cashflow of possible BTC mined via some mumbo-jumbo simulations) Unless you are assuming that the hardware providers are naive enough to sell chips at cost + profit margin as if they are any other hardware makers...

I thought they weren't going to issue more shares into IPO and even if they do, each share will still be entitled to an rough estimate of 10 megaHash or something? or gigahash? sorry, i still cannot get my head around all the numbers. With the fact that IPO shares would be paid 0.0016 BTC first... where is the profit from?

I agree, so far DeaDTerra was very responsive and supportive. People not happy with this IPO can leave freely without losses.

Of course he will be responsive and supportive. He's asking for millions of dollars without a plan that benefits himself and his partners so much.

The doubts and criticism have nothing to do with how nice he might be.

IceDrill is paying out .0016 to bitfunder shareholders before a single dime goes to DeadTerra.

Is that true?

So far he hasn't confirmed that all funds raised from IPO are being used to the benefit of investors - so it's not clear yet whether some of the IPO funds ARE going to DeadTerra.  I'm not claiming that he IS going to pocket some of the IPO funds - just pointing out that he hasn't yet clarified that detail.

EDIT: There wouldn't be anything 'wrong' with a cut of IPO funds being taken - but it would mean your statement was wrong.  The impression a quick read of the contract gives is that it's shares/revenue share in a company being sold.  But closer examination suggests it may actually be a PMB that charges expenses and reinvests (compounding profit OR loss) - with any benefit of cheaper prices from large-scale purchase not actually being passed through to investors.  If ALL funds raised from IPO are staying in the company and being used for the benefit of investors then your comment is true - and it's a decent offering.  I'm not convinced that's the case - but obviously DT can clarify if he chooses to and hopefully I'm just reading too much into what wasn't stated.

Deprived,

I am convinced IceDrill is a shitty PMB in a thinly veiled disguise of an ASICMINER clone. Basically they are selling future hashes at a fixed price, and forcing people to reinvest 25% of mining profits in more hashing power at a price the issuer controls. It's basically a PMB guaranteed to only make money for the issuers, and their hardware suppliers (if they aren't secretly one and the same). The difference between this and a run of the mill PMB is they plan to mask some of those losses by having a depreciation timeline that's been stretched out a bit, so it takes a little longer for it to become apparent that it is a money losing investment.

Best as I can tell, this investment will only make money for the issuers, their hardware suppliers, and perhaps a few flippers, if the issuers aren't too aggressive about issuing more shares too quickly. (Bear in mind they are allowing themselves the right to issue an additional 20,000,000 shares after the IPO sells out, so be careful trying to flip.)

I will say, it's really ballsy in the scale they are doing it at. It's also kinda scary that they have a bitcoin-assets exchange operator backing it. (Ukyo). I'm also very sad to see DeadTerra and Ukyo frittering away any goodwill they had left, for a relatively short term naked money grab.

-helixone

P.S. - Best as I can tell this asset is being setup to create a captive buying group for the "HashFast" ASIC producer, as well as suck up as many coins as possible out of the bitcoin-assets marketplace.
P.S.S. - It's a times like these I really wish that there was margin/shorting on the exchanges to keep crappy behavior like this in check. (This security, ActiveMining, Labcoin, BTCgarden and perhaps even ASICMINER could all use a healthy dose of very large shorting right about now.)

[CanOpener]

sorry, i will quote what I asked previously. I am not a businessman nor a game-theorist but I would assume the HF guys are pretty clever, no?

Wouldn't the hardware supplier be smart enough to squeeze every last cent out of the selling price of chips to maximize profit from the middle man? (ie. do a quick discounted cashflow of possible BTC mined via some mumbo-jumbo simulations) Unless you are assuming that the hardware providers are naive enough to sell chips at cost + profit margin as if they are any other hardware makers...

Sorry, I am not that good with Math but how much would it cost to buy all those hardware from HashFast and then set up a farm with this size? Has anyone estimated the total cost required that is needed to run this operation? Do you think IPO money is sufficient to cover all that cost?

I don't mean to quesiton a HERO member since I am a newbie in all this but I am just curious whether someone knows some real facts (or anything close to facts).

I can without a doubt say that the money this IPO is raising will easily pay for the chips that DeaDTerra plans on getting from HashFast.

[evoorhees]

Best as I can tell, this investment will only make money for the issuers, their hardware suppliers, and perhaps a few flippers

How do you square this with the fact that these shares pay out .0016 btc before the issuers get any money from the mine? All of the profits are front loaded to the public investors.