[BitFunder] IceDrill.ASIC IPO (235 Thash Mining Operation powered by HashFast)

[Vbs]

The chips are the most expensive part by far (Not actual CHIP Cost, but Markup Cost)

One would assume that they will probably allow DeaDTerra to source parts from them as well but more than likely won't be free.

You are correct it depends on the high markup cost, just don't expect a 400W cooling solution to come cheap either (try to find CPU or GPU coolers that are able to deliver 400W of heat dissipation and check their prices).

[Kuroth]

So is this a good Stock to get into right now?

[limbaugh]

So is this a good Stock to get into right now?

If you like train wrecks.

[drawingthesun]

So is this a good Stock to get into right now?

Depends, a load of weak hands are selling cheap. If you are going to hold the stock until December it will be worth it. But if you want to sell this month then don't buy it.

[yuansuyi]

You should find another exchange that doesn't require the user to use some experimental buggy exchange service.

I went to sign up to bitfunder to purchase a few shares who required me to sign up to some weexcahnge site. When i went to sign up there I recieved this warning.

!!!!! ATTENTION !!!!!

THIS SITE IS IN BETA DEVELOPMENT AND MAY BE PRONE TO ERRORS.

Due to unforeseen circumstances database rollbacks may happen.
All information is kept private. We do not share it with anyone.

PROTECT YOUR ACCOUNT LOGIN INFORMATION.
We are not responsible if someone can access the account.
We highly suggest you use advanced authentication methods such as GPG.

The owners of the site obviously don't trust the software, so why should the users?

You even trust in ICEDDRILL, you should way more trust in bitfunder and weexchage.

[VolanicEruptor]

You should find another exchange that doesn't require the user to use some experimental buggy exchange service.

I went to sign up to bitfunder to purchase a few shares who required me to sign up to some weexcahnge site. When i went to sign up there I recieved this warning.

!!!!! ATTENTION !!!!!

THIS SITE IS IN BETA DEVELOPMENT AND MAY BE PRONE TO ERRORS.

Due to unforeseen circumstances database rollbacks may happen.
All information is kept private. We do not share it with anyone.

PROTECT YOUR ACCOUNT LOGIN INFORMATION.
We are not responsible if someone can access the account.
We highly suggest you use advanced authentication methods such as GPG.

The owners of the site obviously don't trust the software, so why should the users?

You even trust in ICEDDRILL, you should way more trust in bitfunder and weexchage.

bad English = bad logic?

[zefyr0s]

You should find another exchange that doesn't require the user to use some experimental buggy exchange service.

I went to sign up to bitfunder to purchase a few shares who required me to sign up to some weexcahnge site. When i went to sign up there I recieved this warning.

!!!!! ATTENTION !!!!!

THIS SITE IS IN BETA DEVELOPMENT AND MAY BE PRONE TO ERRORS.

Due to unforeseen circumstances database rollbacks may happen.
All information is kept private. We do not share it with anyone.

PROTECT YOUR ACCOUNT LOGIN INFORMATION.
We are not responsible if someone can access the account.
We highly suggest you use advanced authentication methods such as GPG.

The owners of the site obviously don't trust the software, so why should the users?

Not exactly disagreeing with you about the weexchange process (haven't bothered myself), but from btct.co's site:
"This site is currently in beta. Nothing is verified. Everything is virtual. Do your homework. Watch out for scams. Be diligent."
Which I suppose there's something to be said about how they come across differently about a similar message.

[jgrayjr]

Look longer term toward the cumalitive payout of dividends.  This should be a winner in that respect! If you're looking for quick flip or instant arbitrage In the next few months... Well thats debatable based on the information given.

[CanOpener]

The shareholders getting paid 0.0016/share before private investors effectively acts as a thick credit enhancement on a CDO, right? Sorry, I am just trying to wrap my head around whether this is a good investment or not.

Sorry for my bad math. If private shares is 30% , you are somewhat getting something like extra protection with 7:3 ratio (ie. for every public share, you get extra ~0.43 share that helps to pay your principal back). then instead of buying at 0.0016, it's more like 0.0016/1.43 (initially before private investors get paid). that's close to 0.0012/share? that sounds like a steal to me. or am I smoking crack?

i don't think Icedrill has miners protection program (since it was not stated anywhere) but I think this 'credit enhancement" is way better than miners protection program. What's the point of hosting more hardware if hosting cost would not operationally break even?

(...)
Does HF's "Miner protection plan" apply to IceDrill?   If so, that may help, since 10Mh/s could end up about 50Mh/s if the ROI is bad.

Good question. Even if it did, what's the time-frame on receiving those extra chips? Weeks? Months?

I believe IceDrill has Miner Protection.

If they don't make 100% ROI within 3 months. November - December - January, then they will give them up to double or four times as many chips as originally purchased in order to make their ROI. It will only be chips though.

That combined with shareholders getting paid 0.0016/share before private investors should make this a fairly safe bet (If you trust DeaDTerra and HashFast)

It's going to be a long wait though!

[CanOpener]

Can someone please build a CDO cashflow waterfall spreadsheet with difficulty increase modeling? If so, then we can properly value this thing. (I am obviously not smart enough to do that)

Flat out modeling with difficulty seems to totally miss this 'credit enhancement' structure, which should be worth a LOT.

The shareholders getting paid 0.0016/share before private investors effectively acts as a thick credit enhancement on a CDO, right? Sorry, I am just trying to wrap my head around whether this is a good investment or not.

Sorry for my bad math. If private shares is 30% , you are somewhat getting something like extra protection with 7:3 ratio (ie. for every public share, you get extra ~0.43 share that helps to pay your principal back). then instead of buying at 0.0016, it's more like 0.0016/1.43 (initially before private investors get paid). that's close to 0.0012/share? that sounds like a steal to me. or am I smoking crack?

i don't think Icedrill has miners protection program (since it was not stated anywhere) but I think this 'credit enhancement" is way better than miners protection program. What's the point of hosting more hardware if hosting cost would not operationally break even?

(...)
Does HF's "Miner protection plan" apply to IceDrill?   If so, that may help, since 10Mh/s could end up about 50Mh/s if the ROI is bad.

Good question. Even if it did, what's the time-frame on receiving those extra chips? Weeks? Months?

I believe IceDrill has Miner Protection.

If they don't make 100% ROI within 3 months. November - December - January, then they will give them up to double or four times as many chips as originally purchased in order to make their ROI. It will only be chips though.

That combined with shareholders getting paid 0.0016/share before private investors should make this a fairly safe bet (If you trust DeaDTerra and HashFast)

It's going to be a long wait though!

[HuLaN]

I know IceDrill is still in their IPO phase, but its kind of scary when you look at the current share distribution now during "phase 3", where the majority is supposed to be sold...
Top 1% of share holders currently own 85 % of issued shares... 

IceDrill.ASIC
Total shares: 30 000 000
Shareholders:  427
Average share per owner: 70 257
Top 1% (4) shareholders: 15 500 000, 7 000 000, 2 182 855,  750 804
Sum top 1% (4) : 25 433 659 (85% of total)

Compare that to ActiveMining or AsicMiner:

ActiveMining
Total shares: 6 898 797
Shareholders:  700
Average share per owner: 9 855
Top 1% (7) shareholders:  642 022,  261 514,  243 573,  219 275,  177 280,  160 568,  154 360
Sum top 1% (7) : 1 858 592 (27% of total)

G.ASICMINER-PT
Total shares: 13 525
Shareholders:  396
Average share per owner: 34
Top 1% (4) shareholders: 1 345,  865,  740,  659
Sum top 1% (4) : 3 609 (27% of total)

[Deprived]

I know IceDrill is still in their IPO phase, but its kind of scary when you look at the current share distribution now during "phase 3", where the majority is supposed to be sold...
Top 1% of share holders currently own 85 % of issued shares... 

IceDrill.ASIC
Total shares: 30 000 000
Shareholders:  427
Average share per owner: 70 257
Top 1% (4) shareholders: 15 500 000, 7 000 000, 2 182 855,  750 804
Sum top 1% (4) : 25 433 659 (85% of total)

Compare that to ActiveMining or AsicMiner:

ActiveMining
Total shares: 6 898 797
Shareholders:  700
Average share per owner: 9 855
Top 1% (7) shareholders:  642 022,  261 514,  243 573,  219 275,  177 280,  160 568,  154 360
Sum top 1% (7) : 1 858 592 (27% of total)

G.ASICMINER-PT
Total shares: 13 525
Shareholders:  396
Average share per owner: 34
Top 1% (4) shareholders: 1 345,  865,  740,  659
Sum top 1% (4) : 3 609 (27% of total)

You're being a bit unfair there.  If you look at ASICMINER you have to compare to the actual company not one pass-through.  Bitfountain hold over 50% of the ASICMINER shares.  And you're counting in treasury shares for Icedrill there - which distort the picture during IPO.  No idea what current share model ActiveMining have but last time I looked Ken (plus friends/family) was still getting 40% or so of all shares.

Beyond that I think it's fair to say investors are starting get mining-share-fatigue now : there's just been too many new offerings where people will make investors rich from mining/ASICs in return for a mere 10-50% of whatever gets mined/sold (Icedrill no longer falls in that particular category after the changes to the contract).  Now that those who just wanted to throw away their cash have done so it's much harder for new mining outfits to raise funds.

After the contract changes and clarifications my view is that Icedrill is one of the better value offerings out there IF you believe mining will be profitable.  My sole remaining signficiant issue with it is that it gives away equity as means of taking management fees.  Whilst one of the main problems with that has been addressed with the contract changes, it's still a horrible way to do things - leading to significant issues if there's a change in management team (this may have been addressed in whatever contracts managment have with Icedrill - but no disclosure has been made in respect of it) or closure.

[DeaDTerra]

I know IceDrill is still in their IPO phase, but its kind of scary when you look at the current share distribution now during "phase 3", where the majority is supposed to be sold...
Top 1% of share holders currently own 85 % of issued shares... 

IceDrill.ASIC
Total shares: 30 000 000
Shareholders:  427
Average share per owner: 70 257
Top 1% (4) shareholders: 15 500 000, 7 000 000, 2 182 855,  750 804
Sum top 1% (4) : 25 433 659 (85% of total)

Compare that to ActiveMining or AsicMiner:

ActiveMining
Total shares: 6 898 797
Shareholders:  700
Average share per owner: 9 855
Top 1% (7) shareholders:  642 022,  261 514,  243 573,  219 275,  177 280,  160 568,  154 360
Sum top 1% (7) : 1 858 592 (27% of total)

G.ASICMINER-PT
Total shares: 13 525
Shareholders:  396
Average share per owner: 34
Top 1% (4) shareholders: 1 345,  865,  740,  659
Sum top 1% (4) : 3 609 (27% of total)

You're being a bit unfair there.  If you look at ASICMINER you have to compare to the actual company not one pass-through.  Bitfountain hold over 50% of the ASICMINER shares.  And you're counting in treasury shares for Icedrill there - which distort the picture during IPO.  No idea what current share model ActiveMining have but last time I looked Ken (plus friends/family) was still getting 40% or so of all shares.

Beyond that I think it's fair to say investors are starting get mining-share-fatigue now : there's just been too many new offerings where people will make investors rich from mining/ASICs in return for a mere 10-50% of whatever gets mined/sold (Icedrill no longer falls in that particular category after the changes to the contract).  Now that those who just wanted to throw away their cash have done so it's much harder for new mining outfits to raise funds.

After the contract changes and clarifications my view is that Icedrill is one of the better value offerings out there IF you believe mining will be profitable.  My sole remaining signficiant issue with it is that it gives away equity as means of taking management fees.  Whilst one of the main problems with that has been addressed with the contract changes, it's still a horrible way to do things - leading to significant issues if there's a change in management team (this may have been addressed in whatever contracts managment have with Icedrill - but no disclosure has been made in respect of it) or closure.

To clarify,
The account that holds the shares is the issuer account,
5.5 million of those shares are additional shares that will be paid to bulk purchase investors.
Please also read the changes of the IPO and how this effect the share count, it is important for the point you are making.
//DeaDTerra

[will]

Hi All - just a couple of updates from Hashfast that we're able to share now that they've made the information re: imminent tape-out public:

How confident of shipping to customers are you if you have not taped out yet.

Very confident.
We are currently conducting a mock tapeout, and have already sent our GDS-II to the fab.
We are very very close to final tapeout.
-John

and

Does the expected ship date of late October still look achievable?

Yes. We are exactly on track.
-John

[drawingthesun]

will, what's your estimated time until we are hashing?

[will]

will, what's your estimated time until we are hashing?

The estimated delivery date for the hardware is October 25, 2013 (from our sales agreement with Hashfast). We'll start hashing as soon as we have the hardware in-hand.

[will]

Based on the announcements of the pricing for multiple other companies that are close to 1/2 the price of HashFast, will you be fighting for a better price from HashFast?

Our close relationship with Hashfast has not impeded our resolve to fight tooth and nail for our investors.

Also to build investor confidence, can you please post pictures of where you plan to host these units once it is ready?

Yes, definitely. We're finalising our decision on the deployment location this week. Once that's done we'll keep everyone updated with as much detail and visual support as is possible. This will be our main focus in the coming weeks leading up to the receipt of the hardware. Along with actual pictures of the space, I'd like to leverage some of my (very basic) 3d visualization skills to illustrate the full magnitude of what we're doing while the deployment/customization/build-out is in-process.

Can you guarantee a return of 0.0017 in Dividends to Investors before "private investors" take their share so the remaining 7 Million shares can be guaranteed a small return?

The 1st amendment of the IPO states that at least a 0.0016 dividend (total) will be paid out before the private shares are allowed to float. Dividend payments will continue after that point. Are you asking that we increase this number from 0.0016 to 0.0017?

[Coinmining]

At what stage is Hashfast in their 28nm chip design process?

When is/was tape-out?

[will]

At what stage is Hashfast in their 28nm chip design process?

When is/was tape-out?

The design is complete. They're taping out this week.


See:

Yes, of course. 

Certainly a lot more information regarding the GN chip.
Also about us, how we got here, the company, the Baby Jet, etc.

This is all info we've been meaning to get out for some time, but taping out a chip is an extremely intense process.
It's ending now - we'll be posting a lot more information, leading up to our tape-out this week.

Eduardo deCastro
Founder and CEO, HashFast

[will]

Yes as there doesn't seem to be much investor confidence as you can see by the price shares are going at right now.

I can't really speak for investor confidence as gauging it is not my forté. I can only work towards successful delivery of our goals. That said, the current sell "wall" of around 330 BTC represents <2% of share sales up until now.

I figured that by increasing your number from 0.0016 to 0.0017 then maybe those 7 Million shares will start getting eaten up which is much more beneficial now than it will be if they get eaten up later (as far as negotiations with HashFast are concerned)

While we'd love to make a world of promises to sell the remaining 7m shares, we also feel that it's much more important to be able to deliver on those promises. The increase you're proposing is non-trivial.

You do have quite a bit of private shares, I'm not sure of the exact number as I'm writing this. After 0.0016 the dividends would just about be 1/2 of what they were I believe? I could be wrong on this.

See:
No, definitely not 1/2, the maximum of private shares is around 30%. See:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=269216.msg2938623#msg2938623 for details of the variable breakdown.