[BitFunder] IceDrill.ASIC IPO (235 Thash Mining Operation powered by HashFast)

[BitCsByBit]

Cheap shares,

These are mining bonds guys they have already pulled in over 20,000 BTC (Over 2 Million Dollars).

HashFast has completed their Tape-Out and are on a bullet run for the first batch.

Will likely be around beginning of October before the price see a rise to the appropriate level (No dividends or reason to purchase before then if their is still a wall)

They haven't completed their tape-out just yet:

We've posted a new update on our blog:
https://hashfast.com/countdown-to-tapeout/

-John

Any updates on the Tapeout?

It hasn't happened yet, but it is very close. I wish I could say more... but will soon.

 - John

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[jgrayjr]

http://tech.co/golden-nonce-the-high-performance-asic-mining-chip-by-hashfast-2013-08

[iCEBREAKER]

http://tech.co/golden-nonce-the-high-performance-asic-mining-chip-by-hashfast-2013-08

on-die thermal controls

So much for Vbs' 'Zomg they will nevar be able to cool such a monster it will be China Syndrome 2.0!1!'   

[will]

Will IceDrill be covered under the miner protection program that was recently announced?

No, we did not buy the Miner Protection Program. When it was presented to us we went over it several times with a fine comb and gave it very serious thought.

While we applaud Hashfast's ingenuity in designing what is essentially an insurance policy, we declined it for several reasons.

Happy to expand on those reasons if you'd like?

[ImI]

Go on!

[Ytterbium]

Will IceDrill be covered under the miner protection program that was recently announced?

No, we did not buy the Miner Protection Program. When it was presented to us we went over it several times with a fine comb and gave it very serious thought.

While we applaud Hashfast's ingenuity in designing what is essentially an insurance policy, we declined it for several reasons.

Happy to expand on those reasons if you'd like?

Huh,  they wanted you to pay for it?  My impression was that it was free for people who bought babyjets.  Were they trying to charge you for it?

[crumbs]

To be fair, they're *not* buying assembled miners @ retail -- they're buying lots of chips, wholesale.  Bulk orders of parts don't enjoy the same benefits as individual retail products.

[will]

To be fair, they're *not* buying assembled miners @ retail -- they're buying lots of chips, wholesale.  Bulk orders of parts don't enjoy the same benefits as individual retail products.

crumbs pretty much nailed it.

Will IceDrill be covered under the miner protection program that was recently announced?

Sorry, needed a bit of time to compare our notes from the offering then with the current public (Baby Jet) MPP.

1. The premium on the "insurance" was substantial, and was only presented as an option at the highest level of bulk buy, which was well beyond what we calculated the IPO fundraising could achieve in the current competitive, highly-saturated mining investment market.
2. While it makes sense for a smaller mining operation to "buy into" the MPP deal by ordering from batch 1, we believe our scale implementation will mitigate the risk of not achieving an acceptable ROI better. These risk mitigation factors include:
   a) Economy of scale build-out: ensuring a lower bottom line and thus extended profitably.
   b) The MPP is a once-off deal. Our costs see a relative decrease as we add more future capacity according to the 25% re-investment clause. IOW We'd much rather spend the premium that would otherwise go toward insurance on buying extra hashing power for lower prices in the future. Remember, a 25% reinvestment will probably result in more than 25% capacity increase (otherwise we probably won't do it).

A lesser issue:
Clause 9 of the MPP offered to us: Any capacity due will be sent via a common shipper (Fedex, UPS or similar), as chips only, and to the same address as the original machines were sent. In the absence of an open reference design for the PCB, taking receipt of only the chips at our scale didn't really make sense. This is not to say that the reference design won't be made public in the 3 months leading up to the MPP trigger event, just that it was an unquantifiable unknown at the time. That said, the Baby Jet MPP offering alludes to the probability that Hashfast will open-source their PCB design or make it possible to license it out to other manufacturers, which is great.

Reading the final version which appeared @ hashfast.com a few hours ago I can say that the MPP has evolved really well from the community feedback Hashfast has received in the last few weeks. It's a great addition to the retail Baby Jet 1st batch offering. It pretty much cancels delivery date risk and is a huge huge deal. It's refreshing to see an ASIC company present something like this to sweeten the pre-order deal, listen to community feedback and adjust accordingly. It means they're doing their homework and we applaud them for it.

[Deprived]

It's also. in general, a bad idea to take out insurance where the insurer is the same party as the one whose failure you're trying to insure against.

For small delays the premium will cost more than the value of the cover.
For large delays there's a non-trivial risk that the insurance will also default if the supplier defaults (nowhere is there any promise, let alone proof, of segregated funds able to cover all orders in full if there's a massive problem).

[ImI]

It's also. in general, a bad idea to take out insurance where the insurer is the same party as the one whose failure you're trying to insure against.

For small delays the premium will cost more than the value of the cover.
For large delays there's a non-trivial risk that the insurance will also default if the supplier defaults (nowhere is there any promise, let alone proof, of segregated funds able to cover all orders in full if there's a massive problem).

Your thought process would be correct if we had to protect ourselves from a company bankruptcy. Of course that can alsways happen too but its not the biggest concern here.

The reason is simple. Producing ASIC-chips is getting very very cheap after the inital setup-phase. That means after planing, testing etc it basically costs a fraction of the inital costs. And therefore they can afford it easily to "print" some more chips and give them for free.

Thats also the reason they offer to give you free chips and not a free complete miner. Cause those costs stay the same.

So its not so much bankruptcy we have to be afraid. Its the much more likely option that the chips come a little to late. And against THAT risk their insurance could definitly make a difference. 

[VolanicEruptor]

Will IceDrill be covered under the miner protection program that was recently announced?

No, we did not buy the Miner Protection Program. When it was presented to us we went over it several times with a fine comb and gave it very serious thought.

While we applaud Hashfast's ingenuity in designing what is essentially an insurance policy, we declined it for several reasons.

Happy to expand on those reasons if you'd like?

In hindsight, this seems unfair to me for shareholders.  I was under the impression that buying IceDrill shares at $14/GH is the same as buying a babyjet at $14/GH.  Now it is clear buying a BJ is the better deal over IceDrill.  Also, it sounds like you guys saved a bunch of money not buying insurance.  Maybe some compensation for shareholders?

Shareholders don't need compensation.  All that matters is the profit of the company owners.  We should have know this was going to happen, ice "drill" refers to what they are doing to our assholes.  It's our own fault.  

[iCEBREAKER]

Will IceDrill be covered under the miner protection program that was recently announced?

No, we did not buy the Miner Protection Program. When it was presented to us we went over it several times with a fine comb and gave it very serious thought.

While we applaud Hashfast's ingenuity in designing what is essentially an insurance policy, we declined it for several reasons.

Happy to expand on those reasons if you'd like?

In hindsight, this seems unfair to me for shareholders.  I was under the impression that buying IceDrill shares at $14/GH is the same as buying a babyjet at $14/GH.  Now it is clear buying a BJ is the better deal over IceDrill.  Also, it sounds like you guys saved a bunch of money not buying insurance.  Maybe some compensation for shareholders?

Money saved by forgoing the MPP may be used to purchase more hardware, if needed to fulfill ice.drill's 10MH/share commitment.

ID is a different play, at a larger scale, than a BJ or two.

[pedrog]

Money saved by forgoing the MPP may be used to purchase more hardware, if needed to fulfill ice.drill's 10MH/share commitment.

ID is a different play, at a larger scale, than a BJ or two.

Ok, sure.  Some people can't afford babyjets at $5600 and I thought IceDrill would allow smaller players to invest. I can no longer recommend that.  If you buy 8 babyjets thats $5600 * 8 = $44,800 which is a lot of money for a lot of people.  Buying $44,800 of equipment that includes insurance guarantees seems to be a better deal than $44,800 of IceDrill.  

Also, as the price of bitcoin goes up, currently at $112 at bitstamp, the IceDrill IPO is even less appealing than a baby jet.

$5600 * (1 BTC/$112) * (1 Share/.0014) * (10MH/Share) * (1GH/1000H) = 357 GH

So that means if you have $5600 USD you will only get 357 GH if you buy IceDrill shares.  If you took that same $5600 and bought a BabyJet you would get 400GH.  Of course bitcoin is volatile and it can go up and down.  My next question is if bitcoin goes up what does IceDrill plan to do with those bitcoins?  Because I imagine their contract with HashFast is in dollars.  So if bitcoin goes to $200 will IceDrill get get more mining equipment?  Or will the extra bitcoins be redistributed back to shareholders?  Of do the private shareholders get to keep it?  The IPO should state what would happen if the price of bitcoins go up (or down) since the HashFast contract is in dollars (I assume.)

Edited.
[/quote]

Buying IceDrill shares one does not have to pay electricity, keep the equipment running, if it brokes have to replace it, and so on...

It still seems a good deal to me...

[rtt]

Money saved by forgoing the MPP may be used to purchase more hardware, if needed to fulfill ice.drill's 10MH/share commitment.

ID is a different play, at a larger scale, than a BJ or two.

Ok, sure.  Some people can't afford babyjets at $5600 and I thought IceDrill would allow smaller players to invest. I can no longer recommend that.  If you buy 8 babyjets thats $5600 * 8 = $44,800 which is a lot of money for a lot of people.  Buying $44,800 of equipment that includes insurance guarantees seems to be a better deal than $44,800 of IceDrill.  

Also, as the price of bitcoin goes up, currently at $112 at bitstamp, the IceDrill IPO is even less appealing than a baby jet.

$5600 * (1 BTC/$112) * (1 Share/.0014) * (10MH/Share) * (1GH/1000H) = 357 GH

So that means if you have $5600 USD you will only get 357 GH if you buy IceDrill shares.  If you took that same $5600 and bought a BabyJet you would get 400GH.  Of course bitcoin is volatile and it can go up and down.  My next question is if bitcoin goes up what does IceDrill plan to do with those bitcoins?  Because I imagine their contract with HashFast is in dollars.  So if bitcoin goes to $200 will IceDrill get get more mining equipment?  Or will the extra bitcoins be redistributed back to shareholders?  Of do the private shareholders get to keep it?  The IPO should state what would happen if the price of bitcoins go up (or down) since the HashFast contract is in dollars (I assume.)

Edited.

Buying IceDrill shares one does not have to pay electricity, keep the equipment running, if it brokes have to replace it, and so on...

It still seems a good deal to me...
[/quote]
And the IceDrill folks promised to pay .0016 worth of dividends/share to public shareholders first. To me that's kind of a ROI protection program.
Void if IceDrill majorly screws up and destroys all invested coins somehow, or disappears of course...

[pedrog]

And the IceDrill folks promised to pay .0016 worth of dividends/share to public shareholders first. To me that's kind of a ROI protection program.
Void if IceDrill majorly screws up and destroys all invested coins somehow, or disappears of course...

That can happen...

And if people got their Baby Jets 3 months later than what was promised, bye bye ROI!

And this also can happen.

[HeRetiK]

You do realise that there is reinvesting in the IPO making it so you gain additional hashrate without paying more in the long run.

It would be the same as if you bought a 400 GH Unit and every month that unit gained 100GH in hashrate......

Well not exactly. it's like you bought a 400 GH Unit and every month you use part of your mined income to buy an extra 100GH in hashrate.

Assuming ICE.DRILL will pay less BTC/GH for the hashrate reinvestments than regular hashfast customers this might still be a better deal than buying a babyjet yourself.

[HeRetiK]

I guess this is a good place to ask the question if HashFast and IceDrill have some sort of agreement that they will be able to order more hashrate and be in the "wholesale" line instead of the retail.

Maybe HashFast holds a % of chips just for wholesale(Bulk purchase) customers? This would be nice to know as it would give credibility to IceDrill scaling quickly.

I think so.

Confirmation would be nice, or further information on how reinvestment will be put in practice. Maybe a wholesale deal with Hashfast and every few weeks the re-investment dividends will be used to order and deploy new bulk chips?

[jungle_dave]

Nobody goes into an investment this scale without looking at the long term or ROI.. give them some credit for going big !! I'll invest next month

[Dexter770221]

Confirmation would be nice, or further information on how reinvestment will be put in practice.

+1!
I've asked this some week ago.

[will]

Will IceDrill be covered under the miner protection program that was recently announced?

While we applaud Hashfast's ingenuity in designing what is essentially an insurance policy, we declined it for several reasons.

In hindsight, this seems unfair to me for shareholders.  I was under the impression that buying IceDrill shares at $14/GH is the same as buying a babyjet at $14/GH.  Now it is clear buying a BJ is the better deal over IceDrill.  Also, it sounds like you guys saved a bunch of money not buying insurance.  Maybe some compensation for shareholders?

My apologies if you were lead to believe that we were buying Baby Jets. Such a statement was never made. To be clear: IceDrill will be powered by a large amount of Hashfast's enterprise-level mining equipment. Our control over the evolution of their first-batch retail offering is nil.