[BitFunder] IceDrill.ASIC IPO (235 Thash Mining Operation powered by HashFast)

[bouchon2cul]

Since HashFast states prices in fiat (and other miners, I still don't see why reinvest only has to be HashFast), why wouldn't a rising BTC simply give more hash rate to IceDrill? It's not a PMB a fixed hash/share right?

[Deprived]

Since HashFast states prices in fiat (and other miners, I still don't see why reinvest only has to be HashFast), why wouldn't a rising BTC simply give more hash rate to IceDrill?

Because most existing funds were already paid to Hashfast - so any gain from the increase in price of BTC gos to Hashfast not Icedrill.  That was always clear from day 1 - it's not something that should be surprising.

Dates were always published when payments would be made to Hashfast - and the funds raised so far (less those held back for infrastructure) were paid in August.  I know that - and I don't even have any special interest in this security (it's just one of many that I trade).

[will]

We are losing track of the issue that concerns people most right now. Many shares have been sold @ bitfunder below the official IPO price of 0.0014 BTC and are flooding the market now, causing a price drop and a loss for everyone who bought shares for the official price.

Either this has always been part of the plan or an unfortunate and never intended event, but we need a fix.

I disagree on the requirement for a fix. The statement that the block sales are flooding the market is factually incorrect, and publically verifiable:

We made 3 block sales. For 2 of these trades the shares have been transferred to their owners. For the other one (3MM shares) the owner asked that we hold their shares until IPO completion.

See: https://bitfunder.com/assetlist
The two owners mentioned above, represented by 1NJK4iPhxKnYG4t9bbJWSzM4c1teTvvkAD and 1EbNE1UUHxSuJVvanhsV6q1suAqtAFhizN hold 6MM and 2.5MM shares respectively. That has not changed, they have not sold their shares into the market.

On that same list you'll see 13MM shares. They're in our possession. 10MM will simply be destroyed if not sold by 30 September, resulting in a removal of the current 6.25MM ask. The other 3MM will then be transferred to their rightful owner.

[Isokivi]

Cba to read trough this (again) so sorry if this question has been answered: What hashrate does one share of IceDrill.ASIC represent, or amount to ?

[CanOpener]

uh...  flooding the market? how many shares have changed hands to 'flood' the market? i think anyone with common sense knows to stop selling if he is pushing share price down. no offense to you if you would actually do that....

just curious, are you talking about greenshoes? Even in securities IPO, I have never heard of an i-bank putting up a 'wall' at issue price. So, what is the rationale that issuer needs to put up a 'wall'?

We are losing track of the issue that concerns people most right now. Many shares have been sold @ bitfunder below the official IPO price of 0.0014 BTC and are flooding the market now, causing a price drop and a loss for everyone who bought shares for the official price.

Either this has always been part of the plan or an unfortunate and never intended event, but we need a fix.

Either a buy back wall @ 0.00138 BTC or a prohibition to sell shares before IceDrill starts mining for those people who bought before the IPO would do the trick for us.

[DeaDTerra]

Cba to read trough this (again) so sorry if this question has been answered: What hashrate does one share of IceDrill.ASIC represent, or amount to ?

With the current amount of shares sold and if you count the investor protection clause (this will expire once 0.0016 BTc has been paid to each share), each share is worth 12.72 Mhash, without the investor protection they are worth 10 mhash.
//DeaDTerra

[CanOpener]

Have you actually done a cash flow modeling to see which one is better? I am pretty sure that the result would show IceDrill is way cheaper than buying from HF directly. If you don't know how to do it, I am sure others on this forum can enlighten us.  I will give you a hint though (in case you missed the memo), the private shares protects public shares massively.

Oh my god you guys.. get the fuck out of this dangerous bullshit.  

The intensity of your shouting tells me you're buying and probably talking to the off-book-100k-seller already.

If I wanted to invest in Hashfast, I would purchase directly from them, AND get covered by their Miners Protection..
Icedrill is overvalued and to be polite about it, a complete  ripoff.  

[Jutarul]

uh...  flooding the market? how many shares have changed hands to 'flood' the market?

prices are established at the edge and in very illiquid markets, like this IPO, liquidity demands are much more influential than fundamentals. Until demand actually goes up (e.g. because the asset generates a cash flow) a small demand change by a single owner can have a significant impact on price. If you want to take advantage of this, do you fundamental analysis and place some limit orders for other people to dip into. Over time this way you can accumulate the asset at a close to undervalued price. Or make a profit from arbitraging the spread.

[will]

Some hardware questions by D&T, answered by Simon today.

Can you provide the dimensions of the package (important as I am looking into immersion cooling so critical heat flux is important)?

Overall, our chip most closely resembles a modern "hot CPU" design (Intel Sandy Bridge E, AMD FX-9, SPARC T4, etc.). The package is a BGA, 45mm x 45mm external dimensions. The total die area is approximately 324mm^2. The die is split in 4 - i.e. under the metal lid there are 4 dies in a square arrangement, each approx 9mm x 9mm with 5mm gap in between each one (for better heat dissipation and spreading).

One highly relevant feature regarding power use is that the GN chip incorporates on-die temperature sensors and a control system designed to adjust voltage and clock speed to the capacity of the cooling system.  Thus if the cooling system can dissipate a greater amount of heat, the software can "overclock" the chip to fit it's power usage to the heat dissipation capacity, and produce greater hashing capacity.

Similarly, the chip will "underclock" itself in response to external circumstances that reduce the available heat dissipation capacity (say, a very hot day, a failure in the cooling system, a blocked air vent...).  The overall design intent is for the chip to always operate at the maximum possible hashrate dictated by the circumstances.

Finally, one recent piece of news is that we have received results for the stage-III thermal test (full physical prototype) from our cooling system partner.  Stage III tests involve the creation of a full and complete prototype of the system, including the same case, fans and cooling system that will be used in the Baby Jet as shipped.   The only difference is that the chip is substituted by a variable-output heating element with the same form factor as chip. The test consists of running the Baby Jet as if in production, and increasing the wattage produced by the heating element while monitoring temperatures.

Can you clarify that the nominal wattage of the chip itself is ~250W and the wattage of the system at the wall is ~350W?  Both numbers have been used but it isn't exactly clear what they represent.

At the nominal operating point (400Gh/s) the best silicon will consume ~250W according to our simulations. There is some variation in silicon however, so some silicon will consume a few % more. This power level is at the chip only. The system has 2 power conversion stages between the wall plug and the chip - first an ATX power supply that outputs 12v. This supply is about 88% efficient. Then there is a second supply stage on the module board the chip is mounted on. This second supply stage converts the 12v down to approximately 0.7-0.8v that the chip runs at. The combination of the losses in both PSU stages and the additional consumption from the pump, fans, controller etc account for the difference between the 250W at the chip and about 350W at the wall.

Can you provide the dimensions of the ASIC board?  Estimate is fine.  Can you also provide an estimate of the height of the tallest board component (excluding waterblock)?

The module board is ~4" wide and approx 10" long (may end up a little longer, up to 12" - we are still configuring the power connectors). Here is a draft layout - note this is not final and is subject to change. Dimensions in mm.



The tallest board components are two conventional air cooled heatsinks on the FETs that form part of the power supply. I don't have the height to hand - I will get back to you. Here is a rendering of a draft of the module boards, installed in a Sierra. Note - this design is not final, and is subject to change.

Can the controller handle more than 1 hashing board?  If so is there an upper limit?  4 boards? 10 boards? 50 boards? 

Yes - the controller (which is a raspberry pi) should be able to control many boards. We have not analysed how many. Our chip has been designed with a particularly advanced internal interface, and supports variable difficulty levels and n-time rolling on chip. This massively reduces the traffic from the controller to the chip, keeping the CPU requirements on the controller very low. The interface supports daisy chaining up to 63 chips to a single serial port on the controller. The traffic levels and limits will depend on the difficulty levels the chip is configured to run at, and the use of n-time rolling.

Will you consider selling just ASIC boards instead of complete systems?

Yes - we plan to add complete module boards to our website shortly. These can be directly controlled via either a serial port, or USB. We will be open sourcing the drivers in CGMiner.

[hd060053]

@will, deadterra:

Why should investors still have trust into this security, when we see all these sells down to 0.0010? the next stop is at 0.0007

[bouchon2cul]

Have you secured any cointerra devices for jan delivery yet? They're at a much better price point than hash fast units for batch 2.

As you mentioned, you said you would keep your options open and not restrict it to hashfast only. You should definitely get in contact with cointerra and get some hash power purchased from them.

Yes, please respond!
Otherwise it looks more and more like a way to guarantee sales for HashFast regardless of offerings and losses for investors.

[DeaDTerra]

You said you'd buy from other vendors if there was a better deal. Well, there are better deals. Here is the quote:

I could have sworn I saw DeaDTerra make a post about purchasing from other companies if they could get a better deal. Why was this post deleted?

You saw correctly. I asked DT to remove the post because the announcement was premature.

Please know that there are other companies in the space who are interested in our ability to purchase large amounts of hashing power. Some chip manufacturers see the benefit of focusing purely on their core competency (chip design & production) and like the way we've opened our offering to the community at large (decentralization of ownership). We've all seen the problems mining hardware companies have had up until now with sales execution, customer support, shipping logistics and all the important things that go along with delivering these machines far and wide. Doing it this way gets their product out there faster, smoother and with much less hassle than shoe-horning marketing/support/logistics team onto an already extremely-busy design team. As tech companies they agree that rapid company growth places negative pressure on their technical development agility. e.g. If you have a chip designer directly answering customer/sales support questions then you're doing it wrong.

My apologies if it the post removal seems a bit "cloak and dagger", but we agree with senseless when he asked the question:

Doesn't it seem kind of silly to only purchase hardware from hashfast?

It does. We have a 25% expansion clause to fulfill and relying on a single manufacturer for servicing all our future expansion needs is not only short-sighted, but also bad business practice. If other manufacturers can deliver hashing power which fits well with the IceDrill's enterprise-level, high-density compute cluster we simply must have the conversation with them. Any announcements relevant to this topic will be made when/if the documentation to support them are finalised, not before.

EDIT: grammar

As previously stated we intend to purchase hardware from whom ever gives us the best price.
This is our intention and we are working towards this.
Once we have a signed deal we will announce this to our share holders, but for now we can't comment as we do not yet have a signed deal.
Please be aware that we are doing our best to get the best deals out there.

We have already purchased a big amount of HF equipment and hence then next batch of equipment we are looking to buy is in January/February.
//DeaDTerra

[DeaDTerra]

@will, deadterra:

Why should investors still have trust into this security, when we see all these sells down to 0.0010? the next stop is at 0.0007

Please see my previous post about the price.
We do not control the market,
We are not operational yet, which means it is hard to price the asset.
If you are in this for short term speculation and all you want to see is a increase in the share price.
Then I would recommend that you have a think if this is the asset for you.
We are in this for the long term, until we are up and operational it is hard to price the asset.
If you think the asset is underpriced buy, if you think it is overpriced sell.
That is all the advice that I can give you.
//DeaDTerra

[Netnox]

Hi,

I'm interested in this, but i would like to know when you think the price will start to rise, maybe when you guys start to mine? Also do you think this stock has the potential o rise to 1 or more BTC in the future?

Like i understood to buy shares i need to buy them from Bitfunder and i can sell them to make profit. Next to buying and selling share i will also get dividend right? Can you tell me how much this is and from when you are planning to give out the dividend to the shareholders? For this do you need a BTC address from the shareholders or where will the dividends go?

Thanks

[Kushedout]

Hi,

I'm interested in this, but i would like to know when you think the price will start to rise, maybe when you guys start to mine? Also do you think this stock has the potential o rise to 1 or more BTC in the future?

Like i understood to buy shares i need to buy them from Bitfunder and i can sell them to make profit. Next to buying and selling share i will also get dividend right? Can you tell me how much this is and from when you are planning to give out the dividend to the shareholders? For this do you need a BTC address from the shareholders or where will the dividends go?

Thanks

Are you serious?

[jinyoubei]

Are you for real?

Hi,

I'm interested in this, but i would like to know when you think the price will start to rise, maybe when you guys start to mine? Also do you think this stock has the potential o rise to 1 or more BTC in the future?

Like i understood to buy shares i need to buy them from Bitfunder and i can sell them to make profit. Next to buying and selling share i will also get dividend right? Can you tell me how much this is and from when you are planning to give out the dividend to the shareholders? For this do you need a BTC address from the shareholders or where will the dividends go?

Thanks

[dopamine]

Is there a reason why you are not on BTC-TC?

[Netnox]

Hi,

I'm interested in this, but i would like to know when you think the price will start to rise, maybe when you guys start to mine? Also do you think this stock has the potential o rise to 1 or more BTC in the future?

Like i understood to buy shares i need to buy them from Bitfunder and i can sell them to make profit. Next to buying and selling share i will also get dividend right? Can you tell me how much this is and from when you are planning to give out the dividend to the shareholders? For this do you need a BTC address from the shareholders or where will the dividends go?

Thanks

Are you serious?

Yea im for real, whats the potential of this stock to rise? any good? and when do they pay out dividents and how?

[Netnox]

Are you for real?

Hi,

I'm interested in this, but i would like to know when you think the price will start to rise, maybe when you guys start to mine? Also do you think this stock has the potential o rise to 1 or more BTC in the future?

Like i understood to buy shares i need to buy them from Bitfunder and i can sell them to make profit. Next to buying and selling share i will also get dividend right? Can you tell me how much this is and from when you are planning to give out the dividend to the shareholders? For this do you need a BTC address from the shareholders or where will the dividends go?

Thanks

4 realll..why whats wrong?

[Rannasha]

Is there a reason why you are not on BTC-TC?

https://btct.co/security/ICEDRILL.ASIC

BTC-TC moderators have not approved it.