HashFast launches sales of the Baby Jet

[Bargraphics]

To survive, if the whole model of the citizen-miner survives, these companies are going to have to do things differently and develop non-hateful relationships with their customers.  KnC seems to be leading the way. HF is working to follow. At least that's my bet.

The road to customer goodwill for Hashfast seems pretty clear to me:

1) Offer full refunds to batch 1 customers.
...

They may as well do that and many on this thread would be surprised with the results. Accepting the refund means you are giving up additional 2TH for free on Feb 1st. Good luck buying those 2TH with refunded BTC for less, considering end of Jan/beginning of Feb delivery. Maybe the refund is safer way, but I bet many people would not accept refunds. They bought miners in the first place because they don't want BTC sitting in their wallets. Announcing MPP starts Oct 30th changed many things.

You are giving up 1.6TH for Free, it's 4x 400GH Modules

Baby Jets were ~50 BTC when they went up for sale I believe (Can't remember for sure)

That 50 BTC is now $15750 - $315 Exchange price on Coinbase

You could literally buy 3x KnC 500-550 November Jupiters for that and have ~1.5TH in November and you don't think that end of Jan/Beginning of Feb Delivery will get you much much more at that time?

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[itod]

To survive, if the whole model of the citizen-miner survives, these companies are going to have to do things differently and develop non-hateful relationships with their customers.  KnC seems to be leading the way. HF is working to follow. At least that's my bet.

The road to customer goodwill for Hashfast seems pretty clear to me:

1) Offer full refunds to batch 1 customers.
...

They may as well do that and many on this thread would be surprised with the results. Accepting the refund means you are giving up additional 2TH for free on Feb 1st. Good luck buying those 2TH with refunded BTC for less, considering end of Jan/beginning of Feb delivery. Maybe the refund is safer way, but I bet many people would not accept refunds. They bought miners in the first place because they don't want BTC sitting in their wallets. Announcing MPP starts Oct 30th changed many things.

You are giving up 1.6TH for Free, it's 4x 400GH Modules

Baby Jets were ~50 BTC when they went up for sale I believe (Can't remember for sure)

That 50 BTC is now $15750 - $315 Exchange price on Coinbase

You could literally buy 3x KnC 500-550 November Jupiters for that and have ~1.5TH in November and you don't think that end of Jan/Beginning of Feb Delivery will get you much much more at that time?

Wrong, KnC November is sold out and there probably will not be new batch since they never announced anything but going to new technology. You can try Cointerra but that's uncertain also.

Regarding 1.6 or 2TH hashrate of 4 modules it's yet to be seen. Would be very surprised if they can't be overclocked like 500-550 Jupiters you've mentioned. They were 400 nominal also.

[Bargraphics]

To survive, if the whole model of the citizen-miner survives, these companies are going to have to do things differently and develop non-hateful relationships with their customers.  KnC seems to be leading the way. HF is working to follow. At least that's my bet.

The road to customer goodwill for Hashfast seems pretty clear to me:

1) Offer full refunds to batch 1 customers.
...

They may as well do that and many on this thread would be surprised with the results. Accepting the refund means you are giving up additional 2TH for free on Feb 1st. Good luck buying those 2TH with refunded BTC for less, considering end of Jan/beginning of Feb delivery. Maybe the refund is safer way, but I bet many people would not accept refunds. They bought miners in the first place because they don't want BTC sitting in their wallets. Announcing MPP starts Oct 30th changed many things.

You are giving up 1.6TH for Free, it's 4x 400GH Modules

Baby Jets were ~50 BTC when they went up for sale I believe (Can't remember for sure)

That 50 BTC is now $15750 - $315 Exchange price on Coinbase

You could literally buy 3x KnC 500-550 November Jupiters for that and have ~1.5TH in November and you don't think that end of Jan/Beginning of Feb Delivery will get you much much more at that time?

Wrong, KnC November is sold out and there probably will not be new batch since they never announced anything but going to new technology. You can try Cointerra but that's uncertain also.

Regarding 1.6 or 2TH hashrate of 4 modules it's yet to be seen. Would be very surprised if they can't be overclocked like 500-550 Jupiters you've mentioned. They were 400 nominal also.

They literally sold out this morning

What world are you living in that you believe KnC won't have a new batch?

The Jupiters are not overclocked LOL (they are using normal heatsinks)

They are 500 Nominal (Most should be above this slightly) (Even though they advertise 550GH on their product page)

I don't personally care if you order from KnC, Bitfury, BFL, or anyone that point is that you are spreading much misinformation and that 1.6, 2, even 3TH by End of January will be cheaper than the baby jet was in terms of BTC more then likely.

Hell ASICMiner is selling a "30GH - 38GH "Overclocked" for 1.99BTC - http://www.wtcr.ca/catalog/product/bm-ambec-01 - Ships Approximately November 14th

For the 50BTC you spent, you could be getting 750GH - 950GH in November already!

Somehow I still think you will miss the point.

[itod]

Hell ASICMiner is selling a "30GH - 38GH "Overclocked" for 1.99BTC - http://www.wtcr.ca/catalog/product/bm-ambec-01 - Ships Approximately November 14th

For the 50BTC you spent, you could be getting 750GH - 950GH in November already!

Somehow I still think you will miss the point.

Yeah, and you know the best. Comparing apples and oranges, ASICMiner Gen 1 witch will be turned off in the first half of 2014 cause of power consumption with 28nm energy efficient chips which will mine long after that.

You've missed the point of my post, but keep spreading "information" in the thread for hardware you haven't even bought at all. Don't let the "information" you've spread in TerraHash thread change your useful contributions.

[Bargraphics]

Hell ASICMiner is selling a "30GH - 38GH "Overclocked" for 1.99BTC - http://www.wtcr.ca/catalog/product/bm-ambec-01 - Ships Approximately November 14th

For the 50BTC you spent, you could be getting 750GH - 950GH in November already!

Somehow I still think you will miss the point.

Yeah, and you know the best. Comparing apples and oranges, ASICMiner Gen 1 witch will be turned off in the first half of 2014 cause of power consumption with 28nm energy efficient chips which will mine long after that.

You've missed the point of my post, but keep spreading "information" in the thread for hardware you haven't even bought at all. Don't let the "information" you've spread in TerraHash thread change your useful contributions.

As DeathandTaxes once said, don't shoot the messenger.

I'm just trying to help you fix you delusional state of mind with current actual facts.

I won't get into your "Mining Long After That" when you are talking about Satoshi Dust,

Again, don't let my facts get in the way of your pity party. No matter how upset you might be the math is clear and never wrong.

[itod]

I'm just trying to help you fix you delusional state of mind with current actual facts.

Yes, trying with "actual facts" that one can buy the same KnC hashrate with refunds, and when pointed out with fact you actually can't reverting to personal insults. Not to mention stating that KnC is not overclocked from 400 to 500-550 GHs because "they are using normal heatsinks". It's a laugh, here's a video of KnC owners bragging about advertised hashrate (250-400) and actual (500-550):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFOcI8nK2xI

Please spare me with your arrogant style insulting everyone who doesn't agree with you.

[Bargraphics]

I'm just trying to help you fix you delusional state of mind with current actual facts.

Yes, trying with "actual facts" that one can buy the same KnC hashrate with refunds, and when pointed out with fact you actually can't reverting to personal insults. Not to mention stating that KnC is not overclocked from 400 to 500-550 GHs because "they are using normal heatsinks". It's a laugh, here's a video of KnC owners bragging about advertised hashrate (250-400) and actual (500-550):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFOcI8nK2xI

Please spare me with your arrogant style insulting everyone who doesn't agree with you.

You sure do get hung up on the strangest things.

Hopefully even though you appear completely hostile to anything I say you read it and took it in.

Words between us doesn't change the current situation or the math behind it, keep calm and carry on.

[itod]

Words between us doesn't change the current situation or the math behind it, keep calm and carry on.

Agree with your. So now that you are talking in civilized manner, will you please show me what your math says one can do with HF refunded BTC better than free MPP 1.6-2TH? Excluding keeping that BTC in wallet to grow to enormous Fiat currency heights.

[crumbs]

I'm just trying to help you fix you delusional state of mind with current actual facts.

Yes, trying with "actual facts" that one can buy the same KnC hashrate with refunds, and when pointed out with fact you actually can't reverting to personal insults. Not to mention stating that KnC is not overclocked from 400 to 500-550 GHs because "they are using normal heatsinks". It's a laugh, here's a video of KnC owners bragging about advertised hashrate (250-400) and actual (500-550):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFOcI8nK2xI

Please spare me with your arrogant style insulting everyone who doesn't agree with you.

You sure do get hung up on the strangest things.

Hopefully even though you appear completely hostile to anything I say you read it and took it in.

Words between us doesn't change the current situation or the math behind it, keep calm and carry on.

Behold, Bargraphics:  I send you forth as a sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as doves, and harmless as serpents.
(keep spreading The Good News, bro )

[Bargraphics]

Words between us doesn't change the current situation or the math behind it, keep calm and carry on.

Agree with your. So now that you are talking in civilized manner, will you please show me what your math says one can do with HF refunded BTC better than free MPP 1.6-2TH? Excluding keeping that BTC in wallet to grow to enormous Fiat currency heights.

At this exact moment, the only available hardware is ASICMiner and maybe some Bitfury https://megabigpower.com/shop/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=53

No one else has given December Pricing that I am aware of.

Bitfury is delivering their October orders currently (little late) but for $8,000/400GH you could just about get 800GH for 50BTC right now which will probably be delivered sometime this month.
Bitfury also has decent power consumption too.

I don't like using unverified pre-orders like Cointerra, BitMine, or especially BFL to compare what you "Could Get", but if I must.

Bitmine looks like one of the only people still MAYBE on track but they only have January Rigs on Pre-Order
https://bitmine.ch/?product=coincraft-rig
$15,000 for 2TH (Less than 50BTC currently)


Once Bitfury, KnC, ASICMiner start having december pricing then we can make a much better prediction but even based on todays pricing it's looking like you could have more in hand, sooner.


Disclaimer: I actually was almost certain that HashFast would deliver in November (I didn't order any units but still had a couple very good talks with their team) I am actually baffled a tad that they are delayed this long.

[DeathAndTaxes]

So if you achieve 33% or less, it would have taken an extra 2x the hashing power to break even, so they double that and send you an extra 4x.
I'm surprised D&T didn't catch that, he/she/it  is usually good with numbers and details.

Noted and fixed the post.  Not sure how I missed the "double", this actually makes the MPP a better deal than I originally thought.  As it stands now (delay and difficulty explosion) I think most users would get 4x even under my incorrect schedule.  With only needing <33% by Jan 28 to get 4 boards I can't see a scenario where someone in Batch 1 wouldn't get 4 boards.  Quoted the corrected version so hopefully anyone who saw the incorrect one sees the updated numbers.

Ignoring the Oct 25th to Oct 31st difference, if that scenario played out and at the end of January HF sends out one extra module because hey, a BabyJet would have earned 25BTC between Oct 31st and Jan 29th they will have a lot of pissed off customers.

The calculation for how much you have earned is based on the shipping date.  By the letter of the program it is the first 90 days after shipping, that would mean if it ships 30 days late your MPP window is also extended 30 days which obviously makes the program a worse deal.  Essentially customers are hurt by late shipping and then their compensation is also reduced.  Many people complained it would be fairer if the MPP began when the units should have shipped so customers are not double penalized for late delivery.  Thankfully HashFast seems to have agreed with that logic so the 90 day window starts on 31 OCT.  Obviously for the days from 31 OCT to shipping date the computed revenue would be 0.  You have 0 GH/s and 0 GH/s at any difficulty = 0 BTC produced.    

So the MPP "payout" is based on the total of what a theoretical unit would earn each day between shipping and 28 JAN (90 days after 31 OCT).

They way I read it (and I may be wrong) if you units ships on say 15 DEC and between 15 DEC and 28 JAN you earn*:
>= 100% of purchase price = no additional boards (achieved break even in 90 day window)
>= 66% & <100% of purchase price = 1 additional board (200 additional GH/s needed for break even x2 = 400 GH/s)
>= 50% & <66% of purchase price = 2 additional boards (400 additional GH/s needed for break even x2 = 800 GH/s)
>= 33% & <50% of purchase price = 3 additional boards (600 additional GH/s needed for break even x2 = 1,200 GH/s)
< 33% of purchase price  = 4 additional boards (600 additional GH/s needed for break even x2 = 1,200 GH/s)

On edit: My original numbers were incorrect.  Thanks for the correction minor. The MPP "pays out" DOUBLE the hashrate that would have been required to break even in 90 day window.  I updated numbers above.

I assumed that Hashfast will only pay out in "full board increments" and will round in the customer's favor as less boards won't fulfill the terms of MPP (i.e. if 127 more GH/s would have achieved break even, doubled is 254 GH/s.  Since HF only produces 400 GH/s boards the only options are ship nothing or ship one board).  The cutoffs above assume the number of boards will be rounded up in the customers favor.  Also remember HashFast isn't going to monitor you individual rig.  It is simply a calculated earning.  For a given hashrate & difficulty a miner will earn x BTC per day.  The sum of those earnings over the 90 day window determines the computed earnings and thus the amount of MPP payout.

Maybe Hashfast can confirm or correct me on this.

[perezoso]

I can't see a scenario where someone in Batch 1 wouldn't get 4 boards.

Yep.  Everybody's getting 1+4 boards per BJ plus any upgrade boards paid for (which I regrettably did).  This, as I was pointing out a couple weeks ago, makes the BJ hardware nothing more than a PITA.  One hopes that Hashfast has enough non-MPP BJ orders to use up the BJ boxes and whatever else it entails that they already have, and to just friggin' ship, as I was pointing out a couple weeks ago, all of Batch 1 in equipped Sierra cases... either that or just provide 3 of the 4 MPP boards in the form of a complete Sierra.

Before some self-acclaimed tech guru intervenes to diss this idea saying "Oh, dude, you're so lame, you can't go out and buy a power supply and case and fans?" Yadda yadda... Think about how marginally profitable, if at all profitable, Batch 1 will be. What's better, satisfying your PC mechanic manhood by spending money on that stuff, or reasonably insisting on HF servicing the MPP in a manner that facilitates actually using the MPP boards?

[mgio]

To survive, if the whole model of the citizen-miner survives, these companies are going to have to do things differently and develop non-hateful relationships with their customers.  KnC seems to be leading the way. HF is working to follow. At least that's my bet.

The road to customer goodwill for Hashfast seems pretty clear to me:

1) Offer full refunds to batch 1 customers.
...

They may as well do that and many on this thread would be surprised with the results. Accepting the refund means you are giving up additional 2TH for free on Feb 1st. Good luck buying those 2TH with refunded BTC for less, considering end of Jan/beginning of Feb delivery. Maybe the refund is safer way, but I bet many people would not accept refunds. They bought miners in the first place because they don't want BTC sitting in their wallets. Announcing MPP starts Oct 30th changed many things.

You are giving up 1.6TH for Free, it's 4x 400GH Modules

Baby Jets were ~50 BTC when they went up for sale I believe (Can't remember for sure)

That 50 BTC is now $15750 - $315 Exchange price on Coinbase

You could literally buy 3x KnC 500-550 November Jupiters for that and have ~1.5TH in November and you don't think that end of Jan/Beginning of Feb Delivery will get you much much more at that time?

Baby jets were 61 BTC when they went on sale (including shipping). Using coinbase's exchange rate that is $20k right now. OUCH!!

[cedivad]

or reasonably insisting on HF servicing the MPP in a manner that facilitates actually using the MPP boards?

I think that we should focus on other things, like the delivery time of the MPP.
It's no-where written that it will be the beginning of February; it just says that you will be entitled to the additional boards, not when you will receive them.

[ImI]

or reasonably insisting on HF servicing the MPP in a manner that facilitates actually using the MPP boards?

I think that we should focus on other things, like the delivery time of the MPP.
It's no-where written that it will be the beginning of February; it just says that you will be entitled to the additional boards, not when you will receive them.

Good question for Taco.

[MrTeal]

or reasonably insisting on HF servicing the MPP in a manner that facilitates actually using the MPP boards?

I think that we should focus on other things, like the delivery time of the MPP.
It's no-where written that it will be the beginning of February; it just says that you will be entitled to the additional boards, not when you will receive them.

Good question for Taco.

Taco, could you please pass on the following questions.
1. You stated that the MPP begins Oct 31st. Can you clarify that? Does that mean that the MPP period will be from Oct 31st to Jan 29th, and will the earnings used to calculate the MPP be the 100% PPS rate from delivery (mid-Dec onward) until Jan 29th?
2. What is the estimated timeline for MPP deliveries?
3. Where will Batch 1 MPP deliveries fit into the order queue relative to later batches? Will they ship out only after existing orders are finished, or will the be prioritized over supplying later complete orders?
4. Should you miss the Dec 31st window, will you refund BTC payments with the amount of Bitcoins paid, or the USD amount on the invoice at the time of refund?

[cedivad]

or reasonably insisting on HF servicing the MPP in a manner that facilitates actually using the MPP boards?

I think that we should focus on other things, like the delivery time of the MPP.
It's no-where written that it will be the beginning of February; it just says that you will be entitled to the additional boards, not when you will receive them.

Good question for Taco.

I would rather have the official HF account replying. They are here, reading us. So they could do us the courtesy of answering, not by proxy.

[qwk]

I would rather have the official HF account replying. They are here, reading us. So they could do us the courtesy of answering, not by proxy.

The major problem with this thread at the moment is that it is very hard to follow. If you don't have at least a few users on ignore, it's even hard to keep up reading, so how do you expect any official from HF, who will probably be busy with other things as well, to keep up and give qualified answers? And by qualified, I mean something substantial, that's probably going to have to be approved by HF's executives, as it will always be held against them when they don't meet expectations.

That said, I'd also like to see some real answers from HF, so please, HF staff, make up your minds as to how you want to treat your loyal early customers and come up with something that will satisfy their legitimate requests.

[tacotime]

or reasonably insisting on HF servicing the MPP in a manner that facilitates actually using the MPP boards?

I think that we should focus on other things, like the delivery time of the MPP.
It's no-where written that it will be the beginning of February; it just says that you will be entitled to the additional boards, not when you will receive them.

Good question for Taco.

Taco, could you please pass on the following questions.
1. You stated that the MPP begins Oct 31st. Can you clarify that? Does that mean that the MPP period will be from Oct 31st to Jan 29th, and will the earnings used to calculate the MPP be the 100% PPS rate from delivery (mid-Dec onward) until Jan 29th?
2. What is the estimated timeline for MPP deliveries?
3. Where will Batch 1 MPP deliveries fit into the order queue relative to later batches? Will they ship out only after existing orders are finished, or will the be prioritized over supplying later complete orders?
4. Should you miss the Dec 31st window, will you refund BTC payments with the amount of Bitcoins paid, or the USD amount on the invoice at the time of refund?

Yep

[HashFast]

Hi all!

Check out the latest blog post on the HashFast website: https://hashfast.com/silicon-in-silicon-valley/.

Cheers,

The HashFast Team