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forevernoob
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February 16, 2014, 09:48:29 PM |
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wall of text
lol who is this guy? Ricky Roma? There is no need to start throwing scam accusations just yet. Waldohoover has proven himself. He has been running a KNC mining operation for quite sometime now. He has paying dividends for months. Let's just wait until he gets back. All we want is to get our money back and we are not gonna get it by being hostile toward waldo. The blame should be put on HF first and foremost. But that doesn't mean waldo doesn't have a responsibility to help us getting a proper refund. And for that we need a lawyer. Since HF won't pay us back. I would like to get a few more people discussing our options. Currently it seems like there is two very VOCAL people that are really pissed. I get that but please don't clutter the thread with worthless rants, waldo is just gonna ignore us then. |
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1Neptune
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February 16, 2014, 10:38:21 PM |
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wall of text
lol who is this guy? Ricky Roma? There is no need to start throwing scam accusations just yet. Waldohoover has proven himself. He has been running a KNC mining operation for quite sometime now. He has paying dividends for months. Let's just wait until he gets back. All we want is to get our money back and we are not gonna get it by being hostile toward waldo. The blame should be put on HF first and foremost. But that doesn't mean waldo doesn't have a responsibility to help us getting a proper refund. And for that we need a lawyer. Since HF won't pay us back. I would like to get a few more people discussing our options. Currently it seems like there is two very VOCAL people that are really pissed. I get that but please don't clutter the thread with worthless rants, waldo is just gonna ignore us then. Oh yes, waldohoover has proven himself in the KNC mining operation. He's proven that those investors will more than likely never recover their invested btc. So you're concerned waldo will just ignore you? As others have said, he ignores you for weeks on end, so why would that be anything new? |
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Sinewayv
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Activity: 54
Merit: 0
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February 16, 2014, 10:41:38 PM |
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wall of text
lol who is this guy? Ricky Roma? There is no need to start throwing scam accusations just yet. Waldohoover has proven himself. He has been running a KNC mining operation for quite sometime now. He has paying dividends for months. Let's just wait until he gets back. All we want is to get our money back and we are not gonna get it by being hostile toward waldo. The blame should be put on HF first and foremost. But that doesn't mean waldo doesn't have a responsibility to help us getting a proper refund. And for that we need a lawyer. Since HF won't pay us back. I would like to get a few more people discussing our options. Currently it seems like there is two very VOCAL people that are really pissed. I get that but please don't clutter the thread with worthless rants, waldo is just gonna ignore us then. agreed, we should wait and see... (what option do we have?)  i hope waldo's had a good break and can give us some clarity on the how the lawyer's going to handle the case..  if legal action is more effort than reward we should consider what hashfast are offering.. (is there prospect of any delivery?) not much news on the ETA of orders  |
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filharvey
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February 17, 2014, 03:48:06 AM |
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I will not as I say put any more money into this money pit, so I guess lets go for refund. The main issue here is that your not going to collect all funds from everyone, which means others will need to pay more. This will not happen. Then if people pay more, how do u agree they get their money back first, as I will not agree to that change of terms. Just get refund and close this mess. |
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filharvey
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February 17, 2014, 03:58:04 AM
Last edit: February 17, 2014, 04:13:11 AM by filharvey |
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Also u have a single lawyer here. Can I see that proof that this is the best lawyer and costs from at least 2 others, before any decision is made.
Edit here, have you read the first condition? It requires at customers of 30 units or they don't have to accept. So does this mean that the $1000 is split also between those 30 units, or are they expecting each unit to pay $1000.
Again leave this mess and just cash out.
Phil
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paulej
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February 17, 2014, 04:10:48 AM |
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I need to provide him with $1000 USD, sign and return.
If I read that right, the lawyer can keep coming back for more deposits without limit. I'm not sure this is a good idea. Contingency isn't this. On the plus side, it looks like the lawyers is taking only 40% above the initial USD payment. That's interesting. Still question the deposit requests. |
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filharvey
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February 17, 2014, 04:19:40 AM |
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I need to provide him with $1000 USD, sign and return.
If I read that right, the lawyer can keep coming back for more deposits without limit. I'm not sure this is a good idea. Contingency isn't this. On the plus side, it looks like the lawyers is taking only 40% above the initial USD payment. That's interesting. Still question the deposit requests. Actually yes, look at item 8. There Is a clause in there which allows the lawyer to claim all his expenses first. As expected. So who is responsible for this if Waldo, signs (and he needs to sign) and they come back asking for $100k. I'm sure he will expect the shareholders to pay for this, + his 3% expenses. Also note 9. The deposit will not be cashed until the end of the case. So why Waldo you do you need our Money. You are group buyer take the risk. So if we pay you the $1k, where is it going to stay? In your bank collecting interest. Phil |
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filharvey
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February 17, 2014, 04:37:23 AM |
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If not, our only other option is going to be USD refund.
k, and if we do this how is your plan to arrange it? Get refund, you take your 3% (of course all you want is the Money). What exchange will you convert $ to btc for us and at what rate? probably again one which u will make money on. What happens to the to claimed over payment funds made and hence profit to you. Can you prove this was not profit or will you pay back those BTC? I am so over group buys for pre-orders, all you guys look for is a way to make money..... phil |
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Sinewayv
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February 17, 2014, 08:09:10 AM |
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Okay I think we should take a few days to think about this and make the best decision for all, as the lawyers fee and payment clauses are very much in their favour. Can we get as much info as possible on this lawyer, who are they, what is their track record, how much do they know about the crypto world, or have experience. If they are able to request any fees & expenses, then why do we need the $1000 USD, and is this only a 1x payment? Also it isn't great terms that there is no retrial and appeal favour so if we loose, we still need to pony up and we WONT get our refund from HF. i.e. we will run the risk of costing ourselves more than just the $1000.As we are looking at a financial reimbursement, can we get an idea of what kind of USD refund we would get with Per share refund value: if Lawyer wins case with 40% fee if Lawyer wins case with 25% fee (can we haggle?) If HF return us USD value of order and we rebuy BTC now (say from Bitstamp or BTC-e) If HF actually deliver we mine and get BTC (seems extremely unlikely by now) |
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itod
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^ Will code for Bitcoins
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February 17, 2014, 10:00:06 AM |
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Read the above document, you guys discuss a way to collectively gather the funds. If not, our only other option is going to be USD refund.
I disagree that's our only option, our most fair and rational option is to bring you, Waldohoover, to court through class action, collective lawsuit - us against you. You've collected the payments from us, and we are trying to deal with third party instead of dealing with you. This is more the case since you are offering to return only the part of the payments (400 BTC) you've routed to third party, and not willing to return 200 BTC in your possession. Instead of taking the big risk of trying to win against HashFast and get 60% of the 400 BTC = 240 BTC, we could aim for your never-earned 200 BTC and win 100% in the court, they are sitting duck, there's no court on this world which would rule that you don't have to return that to us. Of course we should go for the complete sum Waldo received from us - 600 BTC, and let the court decide if Waldo has to refund us all from his wallet or we have to wait for part of the remaining 400 BTC for him to recover from HashFast. Remember people, Waldo took close to 400.000 US$ from us, and is aiming not to return 1/3 of it based on no grounds, no court in the US will treat that favoring him. I believe he broke a few regulations along the way, but that's for our lawyer to present to court. I've copied the current content of the opening post in case Waldo tries to delete the tracks: http://pastebin.com/3sPftjbDEven if not everybody who is burned by this is willing to sue Waldo, we can always organize partially and leave those who are willing to receive single-digit-percentage charity from Waldo. At this point we need one US-resident group buyer to ask around for a lawyer to protect our interest, this has to be done in the US by the US laws. |
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itod
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February 17, 2014, 10:08:54 AM |
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Quoted here for the reference to link that pastebin to this thread:
Offering:- 1 Share @ ฿2.5 = 20GH/s hashing power + 3% hosting fee
- Miner(s) will be hosted in a 24/7 air-conditioned office. Video here: http://youtu.be/owvc1hHHSxE
- Each share entitles the owner to 1/40 of the BTC proceeds from a HashFast Baby Jet mining 24/7 for 30 months or until no longer profitable (whichever comes first)
- Payment will be made to the address of the shareholders bi-weekly. (*Miner breaking after 12 month warranty, random acts of nature like data center burns down etc.,internet downtime, not covered in 24/7 for 30 months)
How to Purchase:- Send ฿2.5 to address 15ZGoQBTeG9SzT5UpdJgMtNq5JYKV6bzep
- Reply here, PM or E-Mail (TeamRedditMining@gmail) me with the transaction ID (TxID) along with your payout address. ONLY use sending addresses you fully control.
Who are you and why should I trust you?:- I have successful setup and organized this KnCMiner Group Buy, BitBurners Assembled and Shipped and I also run CoiningSolutions.com
- I have built a custom data-center room for housing all miners. Here and here. Live stream of the the room here.
- I've been an (active) redditor for a couple of years, check my history and judge me as you please.
- I run Team Reddit Mining
 - I've actually met up with redditor Josh CEO of Dreamhost and although we only spoke for a brief time, I feel he can judge a good character when he see's one.
- 10+ years good standing on eBay and Paypal.
- I'm always open to meet in person and for non-local share holders- provided proof will not be an issue. Skyping, updates, etc. No problem.
- reddit username is DidHeJust
In case of non-delivery:- I (waldohoover) take no responsibility for the possibility that HashFast does not deliver. I (waldohoover) have done what I consider a thorough due diligence but as we all know, you can never 100% guarantee anything when it comes to pre-orders.
- Refunds will be given in case of non-delivery less 3% for management of the Group Buy.
- This group buy will be refunded if the miners are not delivered- share holders can elect to wait further.
Misc.:- You may remain anonymous if you'd like (PM me here or TeamRedditMining @gmail).
- You may reserve a share(s) for up to 24hrs. ALL UNPAID RESERVATIONS WILL BE DROPPED in 48hrs.
- I reserve the right to make any changes to the above in favor of each investor’s best interest. The mining hardware world is ever changing, perhaps there may be a better deal tomorrow or next week that would suit each investor’s pocketbook better. The group will be notified if I'm contemplating changing/adding a product ordered to gather feedback.
- My Group Buy thread on reddit
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Ferr
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February 17, 2014, 10:41:31 AM |
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let's get USD refund, I'll tired with all this shit, there is no guarantee that lawyer in future does not want additional deposit in 5000$ or 10000$
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Batshark
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February 17, 2014, 04:46:10 PM |
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No one is trying to sue waldo. You wouldnt have a problem with any of his group buys if hashfast would have delivered. Theres literally nothing that waldo can do about that. He has communication issues, but hes never tried to screw any of us. The issue at hand is USD or lawyer up.
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forevernoob
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February 17, 2014, 05:11:08 PM |
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We are never gonna "collectively" be able to gather funds. As you can see the discussion going on here is a joke. We have guys saying we should sue you. The other half just want a USD refund. You left us with only one option ie getting a paritaly refund. That's really lame of you. You never answered my question BTW. How come you can't pay the 1k in advance? You will be able to deduct it later it's not like we are stealing cash from you. Read the above document, you guys discuss a way to collectively gather the funds. If not, our only other option is going to be USD refund.
I disagree that's our only option, our most fair and rational option is to bring you, Waldohoover, to court through class action, collective lawsuit - us against you. You've collected the payments from us, and we are trying to deal with third party instead of dealing with you. This is more the case since you are offering to return only the part of the payments (400 BTC) you've routed to third party, and not willing to return 200 BTC in your possession. Instead of taking the big risk of trying to win against HashFast and get 60% of the 400 BTC = 240 BTC, we could aim for your never-earned 200 BTC and win 100% in the court, they are sitting duck, there's no court on this world which would rule that you don't have to return that to us. Of course we should go for the complete sum Waldo received from us - 600 BTC, and let the court decide if Waldo has to refund us all from his wallet or we have to wait for part of the remaining 400 BTC for him to recover from HashFast. Remember people, Waldo took close to 400.000 US$ from us, and is aiming not to return 1/3 of it based on no grounds, no court in the US will treat that favoring him. I believe he broke a few regulations along the way, but that's for our lawyer to present to court. I've copied the current content of the opening post in case Waldo tries to delete the tracks: http://pastebin.com/3sPftjbDEven if not everybody who is burned by this is willing to sue Waldo, we can always organize partially and leave those who are willing to receive single-digit-percentage charity from Waldo. At this point we need one US-resident group buyer to ask around for a lawyer to protect our interest, this has to be done in the US by the US laws. Get real man we are never gonna be able to sue him. People get away with scamming on this forum everyday. How come no one sues these scammers? |
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id10tothe9
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February 17, 2014, 08:14:20 PM |
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I kinda lost track of all the numbers, and I guess too overwhelmed to calculate them . can somebody tell me how much $ per share we get back (just approx.) in case of dollar refund and in case of lawyer (assuming just the 40% fee). We gave up on HF actually delivering with some extra GH for compensation? |
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1Neptune
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February 17, 2014, 09:50:22 PM |
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I'll let this breathe for a bit more but the inevitable choice will most likely be USD refund.
Like stated above, not everyone would would chip in the for the initial $1000 - there is also the fact that the lawyer may need more $ in the future etc. More headache, effort and energy.
As far as how the breakdown would work for the refund, I'll explain again.
USD refund would be issued (hopefully, I can't even get HF on the phone) - so just because we choose this does not mean it will be a timely refund. FYI!
I would buy BTC with returned USD at the rate when the USD is available then return BTC evenly per share minus 3% and send to the payout address that was set.
There's Waldo, still stickin' it to you guys. After reading the representation contract from the lawyer, there's no doubt whatsoever the lawyer will want more money to cover costs. That's what the initial $1000 payment is for and there will be more payments required, make no mistake. Oh, and "reasonable and customary" in the area for things like copies of documents will be at $1 PER PAGE. I did attorney time / client expense billing as a service for three and a half years and have seen thousands of examples where these guys (attorneys) treat their copy machine as a profit center. So if the group goes for representation by this attorney, or any attorney for that matter, expect to be billed for tens of thousands of dollars in additional costs, which if not paid promptly, will result in the attorney withdrawing from the case and leaving you in the lurch with nothing and seeking additional legal representation. You think you've got a big mess now? Wait until something like that happens. Oh and isn't Waldo just being so generous, to buy btc with the returned USD from HF, then subtract his 3% FIRST and forward the pittance of a remainder on to you guys. So he takes in 600 btc, keeps 200 btc, is trying to get back 400 btc or a portion of the dollar value of that because he, "in his best judgment" made the refund demand early, on his own, without consulting the group, which wouldn't have mattered anyway. So now, after getting 200 btc in his pockets from you guys, he's just so nice to offer to subtract an ADDITIONAL 3% from anything that may come from HF in a refund paid in dollars. The only person making money in this deal is waldohoover. That should be obvious to everyone. The voice of reason, correctness and experience so far that I've seen in this thread is from itod. Just about everyone else are waldo worshippers, to their peril. |
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1Neptune
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February 17, 2014, 10:54:48 PM |
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Read the above document, you guys discuss a way to collectively gather the funds. If not, our only other option is going to be USD refund.
... Remember people, Waldo took close to 400.000 US$ from us, and is aiming not to return 1/3 of it based on no grounds, no court in the US will treat that favoring him. I believe he broke a few regulations along the way, but that's for our lawyer to present to court. Someone needs to find out if waldo even has a business license in California to operate. Odds are he doesn't. |
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paulej
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February 18, 2014, 01:15:00 AM
Last edit: February 18, 2014, 05:37:46 AM by paulej |
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The voice of reason, correctness and experience so far that I've seen in this thread is from itod. Just about everyone else are waldo worshippers, to their peril.
I don't really agree with those statements. I don't mean any disrespect to you or itod, but waldohoover is stuck between a rock and a hard place. I don't know the man personally, but reading this thread and knowing what HF did, I cannot see where he did anything wrong. He offered to collect funds from a group of people, buy a miner, and operate the miner. He did that, or tried. HF failed to deliver. He cannot do anything to motivate HF and cannot be held responsible for non-delivery. He tried to get a BTC refund as HF promised, but they lied to everyone. And as HF did promise to return BTC (even guaranteeing people will not lose their BTC!), there were likely folks who joined the group buy thinking it was a relatively safe bet. Everything that went wrong here, IMO, is entirely the fault of HashFast. They lied about returning BTC and then they presented Waldo with an absolutely insane set of conditions for accepting the USD refund. HF is the one who screwed everyone. It was said before, but if HF had delivered, nobody would be upset. They didn't. Blame them. There is one other option that Waldo might have, if he's indeed in California. He could sue HF himself in small claims court. He could sue for up to $10K if he did not represent himself as a business to HF. He could file a case for the first miner and, being successful, sue for the next. He has reasonable grounds for doing that, since they only offered a refund with the condition that he cannot further sue them, etc -- it was an insane set of limitations to which nobody should be required to agree. Their failure to communicate with him would naturally lead him to court. So, he could sue over the first miner, showing all documentation where they offered a full refund in BTC, etc. and showing the present value of BTC. He cannot ask for more than $10K in small claims, but perhaps he could start with just one that is well below $10K. Now, once the court agrees that the BTC should be refunded, HF might feel more compelled to refund the rest in BTC without further litigation. After all, the small claim lawsuit would set a precedent to which waldohoover could subsequently refer. They might continue to be contrary, but he could then just file another for the next piece of hardware they failed to deliver, and so on. The other option is to try to negotiate with HF to ship out a new miner that would meet the comparable hashing power as what would have been delivered by 12/31. They do have hardware. They could ship it. That would likely be best for all. |
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floatyfish
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February 18, 2014, 01:31:14 AM |
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Waldo, while I understand that you're in a rock and a hard place, you really do need to address the 200 BTC that wasn't sent to Hashfast. Did you cash it all out at once, is there some left, or is all of it left?
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If you feel like donating: 1NtgJf4znCsA5GJDCbqtowHL2143WyqLkC
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filharvey
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February 19, 2014, 02:27:53 AM |
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I just got this email from HashFast Thank you for your patience while we focus on shipping! We know everyone has questions and we are working hard to fulfill orders.
We are shipping and working through our order chain for batch 2, 3 & 4 as fast as the availability in the supply chain permits.
Due to individual supply chain restraints we don’t have exact dates for your individual order.
Batch 2 is being shipped in order of receipt of payment.
Batch 3 and 4 is anticipated to ship by March 31st.
We have been updating our customer service process and we are currently working through our backlogged inquires. We have caught up and would like to apologize for the delays you have experienced with our reply time. To serve you better and faster, we are also busy expanding our customer service staff.
We greatly appreciate your business and thank you for your patience!
HashFast Customer Support
You are receiving this email because you purchased a Baby Jet from HashFast Technologies.
Our mailing address is:
100 Bush Street, Suite 650
San Francisco, CA 94104 Fine they are shipping, but you somehow pissed them off and your early refund request means that all the orders are fucked. Yes, now 6 months later we would not have made ROI, but some how please get communications with hashfast sorted so that we can get refunds. I think from the last couple of days posts, means that you will not get anyone or an agreement between shareholders on how to raise the $1000, and how to support any requests from the lawyers for more funds. So this just leaves the lets get refund check in. Phil |
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