all finished

[Batshark]

My guess is that some of you guys are outstanding fellows and would step up to the plate for the group, as I would, if condition A were met. Problem is the guy is so goddamn shady nowadays with communication that I cant even fathom sending him more btc. Its insane.

I suspect there would be enough who would provide funds.  I don't think waldohoover is being shady. I suspect he's rather tired of people throwing rocks at him, threatening to sue him, etc.

Whatever the case, we do have to have active dialog to move forward.  But, he may have already moved forward with asking for the USD refund. I think he last indicated he would do that.

Paul clearly you are the voice of reason here, and i'm not being facetious, however excusing his lack of communication as some reaction is putting the cart before the horse. I initially bought into this, and continued to purchase and inquire into more shares because of waldos reputation of quick, reliable communication. He proved it to me by replying promptly to any inquiries, always having a really upbeat attitude, and being friendly and helpful. This to me is a sign of real character which is seriously hard to come by, and why so many people trusted him with their money.

Now, look at the situation today. I certainly would be more understanding, more helpful, and have an overall better attitude about this entire thing if the guy would literally respond to any of us. He doesnt respond to messages, he doesnt respond to posts. This is a guy we all trusted. In the end it was his inaction and his silence, with me at least, that was the cause of my issues with him, not the other way around. I dont know how the situation has been with you all.

Paul, I'm down for whatever you're down for, Mr. Cool head.

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[Sinewayv]

As for the rest, the original purchase agreement was ambiguous on how refunds would be calculated, but there were representations by HashFast that BTC payments would receive an equal amount of BTC in refund. And that's generally the way refunds are understood. This group buy paid HashFast entirely in BTC.

Given they were paid for in BTC, then that definitely suggests a BTC refund. That also aligns with what others were saying.

Perhaps with the Mt Gox issues today, BTC might be cheap to come by this week.

The gox situation is driving prices lower, as people are arbing from there anyway possible.  What was looking like a very meek USD>BTC refund might be increased a bit.

Still problem remains, we need actual word from HF about wtf is going on. 

WH, please can you post here with update, and tell us what messages HF are giving you if any at this time.  Also if you know of any legal group which is pushing for case against HF, updates in that area would be great too.

With regards to the BTC being held from the total original orders, (200BTC) it would seem best that this is included in the refund totals, in addition to trying to secure what we can from the 400BTC orders we placed with HF.

I am very sceptical now of all group buys, merely because the companies taking the orders are shifty, not the GB operators.  I have had a few responses from WH over the last few months, nothing revelatory, but enough to indicate he's not completely useless or on the make.  What I would like from him is more support for his customers in this latest situation, as there is very little update or information being provided, and we deserve that.  Many of us have paid for other GB's of his, or put much into this one, and are supportive, yet pensive about the outcome.

[3rac3]

So who is willing to provide 0.2 BTC for lawyer downpayment? At current BTC prices we need 10 ppl.

If we will not be able to gather crowd large enough the only option we got left is obviously USD refund.

I'm ok with with 0.2. Anybody else?

EDIT: I have looked again at invoices provided by waldo: http://imgur.com/qIMQ406 . On all of them says payment 100% via BTC...

[paulej]

I'm willing to offer 200 mBTC.

[3rac3]

I'm willing to offer 200 mBTC.

Thats even better!

[Batshark]

So who is willing to provide 0.2 BTC for lawyer downpayment? At current BTC prices we need 10 ppl.

If we will not be able to gather crowd large enough the only option we got left is obviously USD refund.

I'm ok with with 0.2. Anybody else?

EDIT: I have looked again at invoices provided by waldo: http://imgur.com/qIMQ406 . On all of them says payment 100% via BTC...

I'm ok with 0.2 if coiningsolutions/waldo/DHJ/RG whoever he is will respond and pick up the torch for his own damn group buy. We need  someone with a cool head to manage this, not a hydra. Wheres he at, and most importantly, what's his excuse for ignoring us. That condition must be met before I send the guy anything, but I doubt it will be. Hell, if he spoke to hashfast they same way he spoke to me and others, I dont doubt that they are ignoring his ass.

[baloo_kiev]

I'm ok with 0.2BTC downpayment.

[forevernoob]

So who is willing to provide 0.2 BTC for lawyer downpayment? At current BTC prices we need 10 ppl.

If we will not be able to gather crowd large enough the only option we got left is obviously USD refund.

I'm ok with with 0.2. Anybody else?

EDIT: I have looked again at invoices provided by waldo: http://imgur.com/qIMQ406 . On all of them says payment 100% via BTC...

I'm ok with 0.2 if coiningsolutions/waldo/DHJ/RG whoever he is will respond and pick up the torch for his own damn group buy. We need  someone with a cool head to manage this, not a hydra. Wheres he at, and most importantly, what's his excuse for ignoring us. That condition must be met before I send the guy anything, but I doubt it will be. Hell, if he spoke to hashfast they same way he spoke to me and others, I dont doubt that they are ignoring his ass.

Agree, I'm not gonna send 0.2 to some random dude. And waldo has already made it clear the he wants nothing to do with us or the lawyer.
What if the lawyer needs more fees and waldo ignores him?

We need someone geographically close to Ray to step up and handle this. Anyone in this GB that lives in NorCal?

[3rac3]

So who is willing to provide 0.2 BTC for lawyer downpayment? At current BTC prices we need 10 ppl.

If we will not be able to gather crowd large enough the only option we got left is obviously USD refund.

I'm ok with with 0.2. Anybody else?

EDIT: I have looked again at invoices provided by waldo: http://imgur.com/qIMQ406 . On all of them says payment 100% via BTC...

I'm ok with 0.2 if coiningsolutions/waldo/DHJ/RG whoever he is will respond and pick up the torch for his own damn group buy. We need  someone with a cool head to manage this, not a hydra. Wheres he at, and most importantly, what's his excuse for ignoring us. That condition must be met before I send the guy anything, but I doubt it will be. Hell, if he spoke to hashfast they same way he spoke to me and others, I dont doubt that they are ignoring his ass.

Agree, I'm not gonna send 0.2 to some random dude. And waldo has already made it clear the he wants nothing to do with us or the lawyer.
What if the lawyer needs more fees and waldo ignores him?

We need someone geographically close to Ray to step up and handle this. Anyone in this GB that lives in NorCal?

I really can't see how some of you want to make it work without/against waldo. There is no reason to blame him for anything that happened. In addition, if I count it right people committed 0.8 BTC so no point to discuss it further.

I guess we are slowly but surely moving towards USD refunds. Unless anybody has some other idea? So who is willing to spend it's own time to make this thing work? I am not talking some bullshit talk but actual action.

[paulej]

I really can't see how some of you want to make it work without/against waldo. There is no reason to blame him for anything that happened. In addition, if I count it right people committed 0.8 BTC so no point to discuss it further.

I guess we are slowly but surely moving towards USD refunds. Unless anybody has some other idea? So who is willing to spend it's own time to make this thing work? I am not talking some bullshit talk but actual action.

Well, the fact is that there is nothing we can do without waldohoover.  He is the person who made the purchase, so nobody else can take legal action against HashFast.

Last message from Waldohoover was that he would seek a USD refund.  I'm not sure if he did do that or if he is still willing to consider a legal direction.

[3rac3]

Well, the fact is that there is nothing we can do without waldohoover.  It is the person who made the purchase, so nobody else can take legal action against HashFast.

Last message from Waldohoover was that he would seek a USD refund.  I'm not sure if he did do that or if he is still willing to consider a legal direction.

I can see this flamewar coming once we get USD ;-)

[elloco4ever]

We should ask waldo whats going on, and what are we waiting for (BTC refund or USD refund)

[paulej]

Have you talked with any others who have already started the legal process? I wonder if we can learn anything.

The lawyer might consume money, but as was explained by someone else here, this is actually customary.

The fact HF will not even reply is very bad. I believe they are excusing themselves from any kind of responsibility. Worse, while I think they demand arbitration, it might take a court case to get them there.  Those folks are starting to sound like BFL.

[tripppn]

If you guys want to point me in the direction of other groups going the same route with the same lawyer, I could shoot them some Qs and see if they are having any progress.

Might want to try DZ.. GB 3 and 4 are hashfast machines.

[paulej]

If you guys want to point me in the direction of other groups going the same route with the same lawyer, I could shoot them some Qs and see if they are having any progress.

rypedx is taking legal action... One person to consult.

[itod]

For your reference:

Just in case people are forgetting.

Hashfast is a bunch of thieves. I do not say this lightly: They have literally taken my coin, violated their contract, and provided me with nothing in return. I paid them 98 BTC for hardware "scheduled" to be delivered in October. It's March 2nd now have received _nothing_ and they have not responded to any of my past private efforts to resolve the matter— now spanning months.  (Copies of communications and certified letter tracking numbers available on request).

I am not some competitor or troll: I'm a moderator of this sub-forum and a developer of the Bitcoin reference software.  I have no financial interest or otherwise in any other mining hardware company. I mine personally to support the Bitcoin network.  I've made a genuine effort to resolve this matter from hashfast, but it seems instead that they plan on taking my funds and running.  I sometimes feel bad that I probably do get "more fair" treatment than others with a lower profile in the community, but if they're willing to do this to me then what are they willing to do to you?

Business screwups and delays happen, but in my opinion Hashfast has gone far beyond those boundaries and into the space of outright theft.  Every additional sale hashfast makes while screwing over me and other miners in this manner damages the Bitcoin ecosystem and discourages me— and presumably other small miners— from participating. I've taken what I feel to be a fairly soft hand in this so far, in the hopes that they'd make things right after they cleared up some of their startup hurdles— but with new products being promoted, it seems that isn't their plan.

I urge everyone to provide HashFast with no further business until they make right by their past customers.

If you're looking for hardware and haven't been (rightfully) scared off by the astronomic prices being charged by current hardware vendors— I can personally vouch for Bitmain's Antminer S1s (*), which are delivered promptly, with absolutely no pre-order nonsense, and perform precisely as specified. Cointerra products also appear to be competently handled (though current units only deliver ~1.6TH/s against their original 2TH/s spec, and at least my unit has some hashrate stability problems when run at full speed), and they've treated their customers with reasonable respect (e.g. compensating customers for delays above and beyond the contract).



(*) Disclosure, fwiw: Last year Bitmain sent me a prototype 90GH/s antminer for testing/development prior to their public shipping. I subsequently bought a couple others as a normal customer and have been pretty happy with them as have virtually all of their other customers. Rather than seeing this as a source of potential bias here I'd point out that any well run mining hardware company would get pre-production units out to developers in order to avoid the early product missteps that other companies like HashFast have had.

[Batshark]

Thank you for keeping us updated.

[forevernoob]

I wonder how many of those who requested the USD refund in the beginning actually got it.

[paulej]

I've been all over the new HashFast threads- attempting to get a reply from HashFast_CL- instead, he/she just deletes my posts and ignores my PMs. That's pretty much that latest of what's going on.

They won't even talk, but ask for arbitration to settle disagreements? These guys appear to be pathetic.  Of course, harsher words have been bestowed upon them.

All I can figure is that they're in a heap of trouble.  There is no way they can probably repay all of the BTC customers are demanding.  They don't have the ability to meet order demand, either.  They need higher capacity manufacturing and not enough money.  I'd say it sounds like bankruptcy is coming, but BFL is still around...

BTW, I'm taking pre-orders for private ocean-front property in Arizona. :-)

[Ferr]

I've contacted today HF via twitter about refund, answer arrive in a 30 minutes, here it is: "We are happy to help, Could you send an email to refunds@hashfast.com" so that we can look into your case?" Waldo, did you sent request to this email?