🌟🚀 [Pre-ANN] AZULIK: adding privacy to DAG fee-less instant transactions 🌟🚀

[saltassault]

Following because i'm certain 3/4 of the privacy/dag coins are scams......but can't tell which. The whitepaper is brief but good. Covers the high level concepts nicely. Waiting for github

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[sat888com]

Sent 2 LTC. Hopefully, it will help to make this idea real.
My TXID: a457c12f0f50fa200fe9fbff1aadd17e5dd7aeab9b9a95c9aad6afab67de3787
Best wishes

[AzulikProject]

Thank you so much for your donations. The FP is updated.

During the weekend we have more time to work full time on Azulik.

Tomorrow you'll get much more information and we hope be amazed by our view of Azulik, our results, our privacy protocol....

We can't wait to be tomorrow.

[littecoin]

Good project, I will be watching this.
As you know, RaiBlocks came up aganist a lot of troubles and the team worked very hard to solve problems.
There will be many challenges, I hope you can do it. Good luck! 

[Avila86]

Raiblocks is one of the most interesting new technologies from my point of view, adding privacy to your project will be innovative as well, but you will also need to improve the wallet. I will be accompanying the project.

One doubt, the project will be similar in the question of available quantities?
Will all mining be done before?

[noblex]

Hi, since I saw you accept help, I apply for the italian translation if you need.

[AzulikProject]

First of all, thank you for all of your messages. They are really documented and very interesting. We will give further details below:


Here are the main results of our simulations. We will try to keep it clear and easy for everyone. Please feel free to ask for further details. The idea here is to test three approaches: ZK-Snarks, recursive-ZK-Snakrs (linearisation), and WPI.

As a benchmark, we used a simple DAG. We then simulated transactions/nodes and calculated the time needed.

https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/03/6/1516471445-finalresultsazulik.jpg

On the left, you can see that (among the three approaches) one allows to have transaction time really close to the simple DAG (without privacy). We can confirm these results with the figure on the right where we plotted the difference against the benchmark.


So, here we are, we have selected the Privacy protocol we will apply. We still have some analysis to do, but we are very confident with this approach.

Azulik will be the first Freemium cryptocurrency.
You’ll be able to realise instant, fee-less transactions, and adding privacy will only requiere a very small fee. Read below because what we have to show you is amazing.

First, we need to understand the issue, Raiblocks uses DPOS (delegated proof of stake), hence having complete privacy would hide users’ balances and break the whole DPOS system. The idea is to have two wallets: one public and one private.
So, you are wondering: If  I have the choice, I could put all my Azulik in the private wallet and the DPOS wouldn’t work anymore .

Yes, you are right and that’s why we need an intencive to make people stay in the public wallet and participate in the DPOS. All the fees collected through private transactions will be sent back to the user depending on their Azulik balance.

It means that keeping your Azulik in your public wallet, even if you don’t do transactions, will return you a percentage of the daily fees spent on the private network. One percent of the transaction fees will be split between the nodes, hence you will get paid to run the node. The other 99% will be redistributed to the network. Assuming that the portfolio weight is distributed like a Gaussian law and that the number of transactions is  equal or higher to the number of  users, we can say that, on average, you’ll get 99% of your fees back. 

So even if the fee is very low (and probably dynamic depending on the number of nodes on the network), you’ll get back a lot of the fees you pay for you private transactions. Remember, it’s  still free and instant to send or receive Azulik with your public wallet.



https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/03/7/1516527377-azulikproject.jpg


The main upside is that we will have a natural anti-spam protocol for private transactions, hence we can remove the POW to sending or receiving. It also means that it will make transactions even faster so they can be used in the mobile wallet.

Let’s take an example: You reveive your salary in your public wallet, then you send a part of your salary to your private wallet that you call Shopping Wallet.

Usually with Raiblocks, when you pay for a coffee, the bar can check your balance, where the money came from, and so on. Here, you can use you private wallet to pay and nothing will appear. Your transaction will be shown on the public wallet, but there is no link between the public and private wallet so it’s impossible to know who owns any given public wallet.

We believe this is the most elegant way to apply privacy on a DAG DPOS protocol
Do not hesitate to ask all the questions or concerns you may have, we would be happy to provide further details.


To summarise:

- We have designed and tested our privacy protocol
- Azulik will be more decentralized than Raiblocks
- It will be as fast as raiblocks for both private and public transactions
- Engage loyal users with daily rewards
- Very small fee for private transactions
- On average: private transactions are almost free

What next:

Here, you have everything you need to understand Azulik. We know you want a proper whitepaper and to see some code.

We can say that we will be able to deliver a proper whitepaper in about a month. Regarding the code, we will have to find a secure way to show you. As you know, there are other projects aiming to do the same thing and, in months, they proposed/delivered nothing new besides "We will merge Zk-Snarks and Raiblocks.” We like open source projects but we don't want our hard work to be stolen. So, in a bit of time, I think we will have a clearer picture about these two other projects and we will be able to deliver code. However, on our side, we will start implementing Azulik. To be honest, we can't expect the first test to be done before two or three months.

[Flater]

First of all, thank you for all of your messages. They are really documented and very interesting. We will give further details below:


Here are the main results of our simulations. We will try to keep it clear and easy for everyone. Please feel free to ask for further details. The idea here is to test three approaches: ZK-Snarks, recursive-ZK-Snakrs (linearisation), and WPI.

As a benchmark, we used a simple DAG. We then simulated transactions/nodes and calculated the time needed.



On the left, you can see that (among the three approaches) one allows to have transaction time really close to the simple DAG (without privacy). We can confirm these results with the figure on the right where we plotted the difference against the benchmark.


So, here we are, we have selected the Privacy protocol we will apply. We still have some analysis to do, but we are very confident with this approach.

Azulik will be the first Freemium cryptocurrency.
You’ll be able to realise instant, fee-less transactions, and adding privacy will only requiere a very small fee. Read below because what we have to show you is amazing.

First, we need to understand the issue, Raiblocks uses DPOS (delegated proof of stake), hence having complete privacy would hide users’ balances and break the whole DPOS system. The idea is to have two wallets: one public and one private.
So, you are wondering: If  I have the choice, I could put all my Azulik in the private wallet and the DPOS wouldn’t work anymore .

Yes, you are right and that’s why we need an intencive to make people stay in the public wallet and participate in the DPOS. All the fees collected through private transactions will be sent back to the user depending on their Azulik balance.

It means that keeping your Azulik in your public wallet, even if you don’t do transactions, will return you a percentage of the daily fees spent on the private network. One percent of the transaction fees will be split between the nodes, hence you will get paid to run the node. The other 99% will be redistributed to the network. Assuming that the portfolio weight is distributed like a Gaussian law and that the number of transactions is  equal or higher to the number of  users, we can say that, on average, you’ll get 99% of your fees back. 

So even if the fee is very low (and probably dynamic depending on the number of nodes on the network), you’ll get back a lot of the fees you pay for you private transactions. Remember, it’s  still free and instant to send or receive Azulik with your public wallet.






The main upside is that we will have a natural anti-spam protocol for private transactions, hence we can remove the POW to sending or receiving. It also means that it will make transactions even faster so they can be used in the mobile wallet.

Let’s take an example: You reveive your salary in your public wallet, then you send a part of your salary to your private wallet that you call Shopping Wallet.

Usually with Raiblocks, when you pay for a coffee, the bar can check your balance, where the money came from, and so on. Here, you can use you private wallet to pay and nothing will appear. Your transaction will be shown on the public wallet, but there is no link between the public and private wallet so it’s impossible to know who owns any given public wallet.

We believe this is the most elegant way to apply privacy on a DAG DPOS protocol
Do not hesitate to ask all the questions or concerns you may have, we would be happy to provide further details.


To summarise:

- We have designed and tested our privacy protocol
- Azulik will be more decentralized than Raiblocks
- It will be as fast as raiblocks for both private and public transactions
- Engage loyal users with daily rewards
- Very small fee for private transactions
- On average: private transactions are almost free

What next:

Here, you have everything you need to understand Azulik. We know you want a proper whitepaper and to see some code.

We can say that we will be able to deliver a proper whitepaper in about a month. Regarding the code, we will have to find a secure way to show you. As you know, there are other projects aiming to do the same thing and, in months, they proposed/delivered nothing new besides "We will merge Zk-Snarks and Raiblocks.” We like open source projects but we don't want our hard work to be stolen. So, in a bit of time, I think we will have a clearer picture about these two other projects and we will be able to deliver code. However, on our side, we will start implementing Azulik. To be honest, we can't expect the first test to be done before two or three months.

Clearly it's really cool what you have done here, can we know which approache represent ZK-Snarks, recursive-ZK-Snakrs (linearisation), and WPI or your want to keep the results for you at the momment ?

Great job it's very impressive, you protocol is very simple and smart, it's to me the only realistic way to add privacy on Raiblocks.

Well done, great team so far.

[Yodax]

First of all, thank you for all of your messages. They are really documented and very interesting. We will give further details below:


Here are the main results of our simulations. We will try to keep it clear and easy for everyone. Please feel free to ask for further details. The idea here is to test three approaches: ZK-Snarks, recursive-ZK-Snakrs (linearisation), and WPI.

As a benchmark, we used a simple DAG. We then simulated transactions/nodes and calculated the time needed.

https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/03/6/1516471445-finalresultsazulik.jpg

On the left, you can see that (among the three approaches) one allows to have transaction time really close to the simple DAG (without privacy). We can confirm these results with the figure on the right where we plotted the difference against the benchmark.


So, here we are, we have selected the Privacy protocol we will apply. We still have some analysis to do, but we are very confident with this approach.

Azulik will be the first Freemium cryptocurrency.
You’ll be able to realise instant, fee-less transactions, and adding privacy will only requiere a very small fee. Read below because what we have to show you is amazing.

First, we need to understand the issue, Raiblocks uses DPOS (delegated proof of stake), hence having complete privacy would hide users’ balances and break the whole DPOS system. The idea is to have two wallets: one public and one private.
So, you are wondering: If  I have the choice, I could put all my Azulik in the private wallet and the DPOS wouldn’t work anymore .

Yes, you are right and that’s why we need an intencive to make people stay in the public wallet and participate in the DPOS. All the fees collected through private transactions will be sent back to the user depending on their Azulik balance.

It means that keeping your Azulik in your public wallet, even if you don’t do transactions, will return you a percentage of the daily fees spent on the private network. One percent of the transaction fees will be split between the nodes, hence you will get paid to run the node. The other 99% will be redistributed to the network. Assuming that the portfolio weight is distributed like a Gaussian law and that the number of transactions is  equal or higher to the number of  users, we can say that, on average, you’ll get 99% of your fees back. 

So even if the fee is very low (and probably dynamic depending on the number of nodes on the network), you’ll get back a lot of the fees you pay for you private transactions. Remember, it’s  still free and instant to send or receive Azulik with your public wallet.



https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/03/7/1516527377-azulikproject.jpg


The main upside is that we will have a natural anti-spam protocol for private transactions, hence we can remove the POW to sending or receiving. It also means that it will make transactions even faster so they can be used in the mobile wallet.

Let’s take an example: You reveive your salary in your public wallet, then you send a part of your salary to your private wallet that you call Shopping Wallet.

Usually with Raiblocks, when you pay for a coffee, the bar can check your balance, where the money came from, and so on. Here, you can use you private wallet to pay and nothing will appear. Your transaction will be shown on the public wallet, but there is no link between the public and private wallet so it’s impossible to know who owns any given public wallet.

We believe this is the most elegant way to apply privacy on a DAG DPOS protocol
Do not hesitate to ask all the questions or concerns you may have, we would be happy to provide further details.


To summarise:

- We have designed and tested our privacy protocol
- Azulik will be more decentralized than Raiblocks
- It will be as fast as raiblocks for both private and public transactions
- Engage loyal users with daily rewards
- Very small fee for private transactions
- On average: private transactions are almost free

What next:

Here, you have everything you need to understand Azulik. We know you want a proper whitepaper and to see some code.

We can say that we will be able to deliver a proper whitepaper in about a month. Regarding the code, we will have to find a secure way to show you. As you know, there are other projects aiming to do the same thing and, in months, they proposed/delivered nothing new besides "We will merge Zk-Snarks and Raiblocks.” We like open source projects but we don't want our hard work to be stolen. So, in a bit of time, I think we will have a clearer picture about these two other projects and we will be able to deliver code. However, on our side, we will start implementing Azulik. To be honest, we can't expect the first test to be done before two or three months.

You're starting to show nice results !
Even if it's optionnal Privacy, the way you seems to find can really work.
I'll be able to help for the French translation, when you will need

[AzulikProject]

You're starting to show nice results !
Even if it's optionnal Privacy, the way you seems to find can really work.
I'll be able to help for the French translation, when you will need

Thank you for your help Yodax, we know you previously suggested it must be  a full privacy protocol, however, it wouldn't be possible to apply a full privacy on a DPOS. So we think our approach is well balanced between keeping Raiblocks philosophy and adding privacy.

[Exterminador de Scam]

First of all, thank you for all of your messages. They are really documented and very interesting. We will give further details below:


Here are the main results of our simulations. We will try to keep it clear and easy for everyone. Please feel free to ask for further details. The idea here is to test three approaches: ZK-Snarks, recursive-ZK-Snakrs (linearisation), and WPI.

As a benchmark, we used a simple DAG. We then simulated transactions/nodes and calculated the time needed.

https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/03/6/1516471445-finalresultsazulik.jpg

On the left, you can see that (among the three approaches) one allows to have transaction time really close to the simple DAG (without privacy). We can confirm these results with the figure on the right where we plotted the difference against the benchmark.


So, here we are, we have selected the Privacy protocol we will apply. We still have some analysis to do, but we are very confident with this approach.

Azulik will be the first Freemium cryptocurrency.
You’ll be able to realise instant, fee-less transactions, and adding privacy will only requiere a very small fee. Read below because what we have to show you is amazing.

First, we need to understand the issue, Raiblocks uses DPOS (delegated proof of stake), hence having complete privacy would hide users’ balances and break the whole DPOS system. The idea is to have two wallets: one public and one private.
So, you are wondering: If  I have the choice, I could put all my Azulik in the private wallet and the DPOS wouldn’t work anymore .

Yes, you are right and that’s why we need an intencive to make people stay in the public wallet and participate in the DPOS. All the fees collected through private transactions will be sent back to the user depending on their Azulik balance.

It means that keeping your Azulik in your public wallet, even if you don’t do transactions, will return you a percentage of the daily fees spent on the private network. One percent of the transaction fees will be split between the nodes, hence you will get paid to run the node. The other 99% will be redistributed to the network. Assuming that the portfolio weight is distributed like a Gaussian law and that the number of transactions is  equal or higher to the number of  users, we can say that, on average, you’ll get 99% of your fees back. 

So even if the fee is very low (and probably dynamic depending on the number of nodes on the network), you’ll get back a lot of the fees you pay for you private transactions. Remember, it’s  still free and instant to send or receive Azulik with your public wallet.



https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/03/7/1516527377-azulikproject.jpg


The main upside is that we will have a natural anti-spam protocol for private transactions, hence we can remove the POW to sending or receiving. It also means that it will make transactions even faster so they can be used in the mobile wallet.

Let’s take an example: You reveive your salary in your public wallet, then you send a part of your salary to your private wallet that you call Shopping Wallet.

Usually with Raiblocks, when you pay for a coffee, the bar can check your balance, where the money came from, and so on. Here, you can use you private wallet to pay and nothing will appear. Your transaction will be shown on the public wallet, but there is no link between the public and private wallet so it’s impossible to know who owns any given public wallet.

We believe this is the most elegant way to apply privacy on a DAG DPOS protocol
Do not hesitate to ask all the questions or concerns you may have, we would be happy to provide further details.


To summarise:

- We have designed and tested our privacy protocol
- Azulik will be more decentralized than Raiblocks
- It will be as fast as raiblocks for both private and public transactions
- Engage loyal users with daily rewards
- Very small fee for private transactions
- On average: private transactions are almost free

What next:

Here, you have everything you need to understand Azulik. We know you want a proper whitepaper and to see some code.

We can say that we will be able to deliver a proper whitepaper in about a month. Regarding the code, we will have to find a secure way to show you. As you know, there are other projects aiming to do the same thing and, in months, they proposed/delivered nothing new besides "We will merge Zk-Snarks and Raiblocks.” We like open source projects but we don't want our hard work to be stolen. So, in a bit of time, I think we will have a clearer picture about these two other projects and we will be able to deliver code. However, on our side, we will start implementing Azulik. To be honest, we can't expect the first test to be done before two or three months.

The idea is great, solving 3 problems easily, I'll be waiting for your commit in github to test!

Now you have an idea how to solve the problem of the distribution of the coins ?

[theredhat]

Dag is getting popular now, adding privacy plus less fees and fast tx is a great idea. Many will support this project as I do.

[fracas]

Is this another project without any GitHub?

[KryptoQuant]

That's a very impressive work you have done.
Great idea, great project and the team deliver as promised.

[AzulikProject]

We have updated all our results, and the front page.

Thanks for all your donations, we continue the hard work for all the weekend.

[rorschachx]

Great to see your progress and will be following your project regularly. Hope it becomes a success.
I have a question. Will the donations be valued at rate at the time of donation for distributing 30% of supply of Azulik coins?

[AzulikProject]

Hi,
It will be valued at the rate of the day we stop the donation.

[BlindedCyclops]

Looks like some parts of the whitepaper are copied from this: http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a540835.pdf

In particular, Figure 2 of the whitepaper is Figure 8 of the paper I linked. And much of section 4 whitepaper are directly copied. For instance, these sentences appear in both documents:

"The prover (P) chooses randomly an isomorphism PI to permute the G and then sends a commitment to this new graph PI(G)..."
"The permutations used by the prover are unnecessary information for the verifier, as checking that the edges revealed form a path is a simple task
without the knowledge of the permutations"

This is pretty disappointing.

[saltassault]

Diassapointed, for sure.

On the other hand, that's one hell of a report. Where can I buy Airforce Research Labratory Coin?

[moneroguru]

I almost fell for Stone, watching Manta closely, and adding Azulik to the list.

Wanted to write why i think byteballs black bytes are not the best way to implement this:
1. It's peer to peer and not stored on the graph, and needs to be exchanged later.
2. To keep them 'yours', you need to either back them up or use multisig wallet to keep them synced.

Neither is ideal.

In one of the messages you mentioned 1. instant transactions OR privacy.

Privacy must be default - this is monero's approach. I concur. IN the end state, if cryptos become the default way of doing payments, not many people will enable privacy, and those that will will be under scrutiny.

Zcash does zkSNARKS but your claim is it's not easy to apply it to DAG (i am not sure, didn't think deeply, and haven't yet read the paper fully). With Zcash there are t- and z- wallets, which are kind of interesting to work with. Didn't look ideal after getting used to monero.

You mentioned privacy would reduce throughput and increae transaction time significantly, by how much?


As for practical aspects:
1. Do you expect to implement light node/wallet (this is on raiblock list) so some reuse may happen.
2. Even with zkSNARKS/etc there's still risk of leaking IP. Monero will be using Kovri for this (and they have explanation why TOR wont work), will you add this to your roadmap?
3. Distribution is still not clear, I Want to get some, either through whatever mechanism is used or through donation - can you make donation percentage allocation clear at some point soon?

Also:
How can I help? I am a SWE in one of the FANG companies with good opensource experience. I find less and less free time after working on my side project, but this looks sufficiently interesting to pause them.

Azulik people, can you please comment on this?