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Author Topic: -- Butterfly Labs New 600GH "Mining Card" - RED FLAGS?!?!  (Read 46678 times)
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August 23, 2013, 08:10:14 AM
 #181

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyemAwLD2N0

Gold Gone? Germany baffled as Fed bars access to bullion

=====================

Goldman Sachs: John Corzine (212)902-8281

Merrill Lynch: David Kamanski (212)449-6868

Bank of America: David Coulter (415)622-2255

Citibank: John Reed (212)559-2732

Chase Manhattan: Walter Shipley (212)270-1380

THE CONFIDENTIAL MEMO AT THE HEART OF THE GLOBAL FINANCIAL CRISIS

Source: http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/larry-summers-and-the-secret-end-game-memo

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August 23, 2013, 07:30:40 PM
 #182

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyemAwLD2N0

Gold Gone? Germany baffled as Fed bars access to bullion

=====================

Goldman Sachs: John Corzine (212)902-8281

Merrill Lynch: David Kamanski (212)449-6868

Bank of America: David Coulter (415)622-2255

Citibank: John Reed (212)559-2732

Chase Manhattan: Walter Shipley (212)270-1380

THE CONFIDENTIAL MEMO AT THE HEART OF THE GLOBAL FINANCIAL CRISIS

Source: http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/larry-summers-and-the-secret-end-game-memo

The reason is a). The US knows the dollar is dead and it wants to go to a crypto soon so why bother so it needs all the gold it can get to back that new coin once the dollar is quickly killed.

Or b). They sold all the gold at the hype of $1800 knowing Cryptos are coming which means gold is pointless to hold and knowing Germany will have to go along with the plan they'll just give them extra crypto coins.


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August 23, 2013, 08:09:48 PM
 #183

Sorry, gold will never be worthless XD IMHO that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Unless world war Z happens of course Smiley maybe a top secret strain will be unleashed soon. FROM BFL !!!

**Edit** above was a swift response, upon re-reading, I see you said 'holding'. This is a very good hypothesis IMHO.
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August 24, 2013, 03:01:40 PM
 #184

here's a red flag. they use McDonald's analogies.


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August 24, 2013, 03:04:30 PM
 #185

here's a red flag. they use McDonald's analogies.



McD's keeps enough stuff in their freezer to keep operating 100% all the time.  Because they know if they're out of burgers people will just go to BK or Wendies.

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August 24, 2013, 03:11:43 PM
 #186

here's a red flag. they use McDonald's analogies.



Yeah hiring more people to lie for you on internet message boards

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August 24, 2013, 03:53:44 PM
 #187

They shouldn't be using McD analogies.  With the Made For You system, you get your order fresh and hot within 60 seconds, not more than a year.

Butterfly Labs has a different interpretation of the FTC Mail Order Rule.  You do not have a refund option with the BFL Monarch no matter how late they ship.
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August 24, 2013, 04:43:51 PM
 #188

here's a red flag. they use McDonald's analogies.



McD's keeps enough stuff in their freezer to keep operating 100% all the time.  Because they know if they're out of burgers people will just go to BK or Wendies.
You are only partially correct.  Having worked for McDonalds I can attest they have multiple freezers with the largest one being downstairs.  The freezer holding the  daily hamburgers and 1/4 pounders hold ~4 boxes of each and when low someone runs downstairs to get more.  The french fry freezer hold the bags taken from the boxes brought up from downstairs.

Now, a true story.  The town I worked in had a railroad line that cut through the middle of town.  If anything happened and a train broke down, there were a few underpasses that could be gotten to.  There was also a seldom used branch off the main line that if a train broke down on would cut ~20% of the town off from the rest.  One night this happened and during the normal rush hour for the evening we were only seeing 5-10 people an hour.  The manager, ever cost concious, ended up sending everyone home except the 4 people who would close the store at the end of the night.  I was cooking hamburgers and the Manager and 2 others were running the registers.  When the train finally got fixed and moved, we were packed.  I had upwards of 80 patties on the grills non-stop for 3 hours.  When the little freezer ran out, I had to have the manager run downstairs to get me more as I could not leave or I'd have charcoal on the grill.  I could not even take the time to prepare Filet-o-Fish or Apple and Cherry pies, the manager had to to them as well as wrap everything I sent up to him and try to keep the french fries flowing.  I was balls to the walls on the grills and buns and couldn't thik about ANYTHING else.  If the manager could not get me more product, we would have been dead in the water until I was out of everything I could cook and go get more.  You want a filet? Gotta wait.  Apple pie? Gotta wait.  When things slowed down to where we could breathe, the manager took a reading of sales and compared it to the charts.  The burgers I cooked during that 3 hour period should have taken a minimum of 7 people to do.  No floors got mopped, no bathrooms got cleaned, no trash got taken out.

So, spare me your unknowing diatribes about how the analogies are incorrect.  Until you have been there, you are clueless.

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August 24, 2013, 04:44:07 PM
 #189

here's a red flag. they use McDonald's analogies.



"Excuse me, but there's no bun with my Filet-o-Fish."

"Buns are on backorder. You're hungry, right! We are clearly giving you the option of accepting the sandwich without the bun or you can wait for your order till when the buns arrive."

"I am hungry, thus I'll go across the street and buy my own bun. Thanks, bud!"

<one month later>

"Excuse me, but there's no bun with my Filet-o-Fish."

"This is getting fuckin' rediculous! Don't you monumental assholes know that making buns is hard? You're hungry, right? Take the fuckin' sandwich and shut your motherfuckin' trap! Nobody else is complaining, for they simply go across the street and get their own bun. How the fuck can I explain it to you any simpler? Contact the FTC if you think we are not in line with our procedure."

"I am so sorry! I see that you're doing the best you can under the extreme circumstance. Please forgive me for being outta line."

"No problem, bud! Would you like to trade in you F-o-F for a Big Mac? There's an extra bun in the middle."

"I thought you said that you were outta buns?"

"What part of pre-order don't you understand?"
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August 24, 2013, 04:51:33 PM
 #190

here's a red flag. they use McDonald's analogies.



McD's keeps enough stuff in their freezer to keep operating 100% all the time.  Because they know if they're out of burgers people will just go to BK or Wendies.
You are only partially correct.  Having worked for McDonalds I can attest they have multiple freezers with the largest one being downstairs.  The freezer holding the  daily hamburgers and 1/4 pounders hold ~4 boxes of each and when low someone runs downstairs to get more.  The french fry freezer hold the bags taken from the boxes brought up from downstairs.

Now, a true story.  The town I worked in had a railroad line that cut through the middle of town.  If anything happened and a train broke down, there were a few underpasses that could be gotten to.  There was also a seldom used branch off the main line that if a train broke down on would cut ~20% of the town off from the rest.  One night this happened and during the normal rush hour for the evening we were only seeing 5-10 people an hour.  The manager, ever cost concious, ended up sending everyone home except the 4 people who would close the store at the end of the night.  I was cooking hamburgers and the Manager and 2 others were running the registers.  When the train finally got fixed and moved, we were packed.  I had upwards of 80 patties on the grills non-stop for 3 hours.  When the little freezer ran out, I had to have the manager run downstairs to get me more as I could not leave or I'd have charcoal on the grill.  I could not even take the time to prepare Filet-o-Fish or Apple and Cherry pies, the manager had to to them as well as wrap everything I sent up to him and try to keep the french fries flowing.  I was balls to the walls on the grills and buns and couldn't thik about ANYTHING else.  If the manager could not get me more product, we would have been dead in the water until I was out of everything I could cook and go get more.  You want a filet? Gotta wait.  Apple pie? Gotta wait.  When things slowed down to where we could breathe, the manager took a reading of sales and compared it to the charts.  The burgers I cooked during that 3 hour period should have taken a minimum of 7 people to do.  No floors got mopped, no bathrooms got cleaned, no trash got taken out.

So, spare me your unknowing diatribes about how the analogies are incorrect.  Until you have been there, you are clueless.

I worked at Burger King when I was 16 and this is about the norm.  Then again I have tons of jalapeños on order, I had a feeling the bigger units would have a hard time shipping 4 months ago when I ordered, so maybe that's why I'm not as upset as these other guys who ordered mini rigs and Singles.


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August 24, 2013, 05:08:25 PM
 #191

here's a red flag. they use McDonald's analogies.



McD's keeps enough stuff in their freezer to keep operating 100% all the time.  Because they know if they're out of burgers people will just go to BK or Wendies.
You are only partially correct.  Having worked for McDonalds I can attest they have multiple freezers with the largest one being downstairs.  The freezer holding the  daily hamburgers and 1/4 pounders hold ~4 boxes of each and when low someone runs downstairs to get more.  The french fry freezer hold the bags taken from the boxes brought up from downstairs.

Now, a true story.  The town I worked in had a railroad line that cut through the middle of town.  If anything happened and a train broke down, there were a few underpasses that could be gotten to.  There was also a seldom used branch off the main line that if a train broke down on would cut ~20% of the town off from the rest.  One night this happened and during the normal rush hour for the evening we were only seeing 5-10 people an hour.  The manager, ever cost concious, ended up sending everyone home except the 4 people who would close the store at the end of the night.  I was cooking hamburgers and the Manager and 2 others were running the registers.  When the train finally got fixed and moved, we were packed.  I had upwards of 80 patties on the grills non-stop for 3 hours.  When the little freezer ran out, I had to have the manager run downstairs to get me more as I could not leave or I'd have charcoal on the grill.  I could not even take the time to prepare Filet-o-Fish or Apple and Cherry pies, the manager had to to them as well as wrap everything I sent up to him and try to keep the french fries flowing.  I was balls to the walls on the grills and buns and couldn't thik about ANYTHING else.  If the manager could not get me more product, we would have been dead in the water until I was out of everything I could cook and go get more.  You want a filet? Gotta wait.  Apple pie? Gotta wait.  When things slowed down to where we could breathe, the manager took a reading of sales and compared it to the charts.  The burgers I cooked during that 3 hour period should have taken a minimum of 7 people to do.  No floors got mopped, no bathrooms got cleaned, no trash got taken out.

So, spare me your unknowing diatribes about how the analogies are incorrect.  Until you have been there, you are clueless.

Dude, I can top that story.

I put in a 25 hour shift at a Waffle House in Florence, AL, on Christmas Day, 2001, the day after a major ice storm, and the electricity was still out during my entire shift.

We were able to cook because all the grills and burners were gas. Candles provided the lighting. From six in the morning to seven the next morning, me and the entire crew, sans two I fired during the shift for bitching (seriously), served a standing room only crowd.

Not a single customer bitched, because they obviously saw that we were doing the best we can to accommodate their needs--hunger--under the extreme circumstance.

I just happened to be the person who made sure that all three restaurants (Florence, Tuscumbia, and Sheffield) were stocked for the normal Christmas Day rush. I was fortunate to see the storm coming, thus overstocked a faction of a percent, of which I took heat for at the time, and even effected my food cost bonus.

None of the three restaurants ran outta food, and they were the only businesses opened during the blackout. While most the locals stayed home, we were feeding all the emergency personnel and people stuck in hotel rooms nearby.

At the end of my shift, I was a ZOMBIE, but returned 8 hours later to do it again for another 12 hours, but with electricity for the final 4 hours.

Ergo, not having common external PSUs on hand at Buffalo Labs is 100% uncalled for.
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August 24, 2013, 05:21:35 PM
 #192

Dude, I can top that story.

I put in a 25 hour shift at a Waffle House in Florence, AL, on Christmas Day, 2001, the day after a major ice storm, and the electricity was still out during my entire shift.

We were able to cook because all the grills and burners were gas. Candles provided the lighting. From six in the morning to seven the next morning, me and the entire crew, sans two I fired during the shift for bitching (seriously), served a standing room only crowd.

Not a single customer bitched, because they obviously saw that we were doing the best we can to accommodate their needs--hunger--under the extreme circumstance.

I just happened to be the person who made sure that all three restaurants (Florence, Tuscumbia, and Sheffield) were stocked for the normal Christmas Day rush. I was fortunate to see the storm coming, thus overstocked a faction of a percent, of which I took heat for at the time, and even effected my food cost bonus.

None of the three restaurants ran outta food, and they were the only businesses opened during the blackout. While most the locals stayed home, we were feeding all the emergency personnel and people stuck in hotel rooms nearby.

At the end of my shift, I was a ZOMBIE, but returned 8 hours later to do it again for another 12 hours, but with electricity for the final 4 hours.

Ergo, not having common external PSUs on hand at Buffalo Labs is 100% uncalled for.
Very nice, glad it all worked out, BUT, what if the inventory orders you had made was on a truck that slid off the road and was unable to make your delivery?  Your story ended up with a successful ending due to forethought and you were lucky not to have any disasters, mine was a near disaster due to things beyond our control (which an overturned truck would have been for you).  There was a report a while back about a package they received that had been broken open in shipment and they only got something like 29% of their order (I could be off a bit).  This could be the long term effect of that shipment, you never know.

You have the luxury of dreaming of a picture perfert world where nothing goes wrong and when reality doesn't live up to the dream you place blame in what could end up being the wrong place.  I see missing facts, so while you could be right, you equally could be wrong.

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August 24, 2013, 05:24:25 PM
 #193

Dude, I can top that story.

I put in a 25 hour shift at a Waffle House in Florence, AL, on Christmas Day, 2001, the day after a major ice storm, and the electricity was still out during my entire shift.

We were able to cook because all the grills and burners were gas. Candles provided the lighting. From six in the morning to seven the next morning, me and the entire crew, sans two I fired during the shift for bitching (seriously), served a standing room only crowd.

Not a single customer bitched, because they obviously saw that we were doing the best we can to accommodate their needs--hunger--under the extreme circumstance.

I just happened to be the person who made sure that all three restaurants (Florence, Tuscumbia, and Sheffield) were stocked for the normal Christmas Day rush. I was fortunate to see the storm coming, thus overstocked a faction of a percent, of which I took heat for at the time, and even effected my food cost bonus.

None of the three restaurants ran outta food, and they were the only businesses opened during the blackout. While most the locals stayed home, we were feeding all the emergency personnel and people stuck in hotel rooms nearby.

At the end of my shift, I was a ZOMBIE, but returned 8 hours later to do it again for another 12 hours, but with electricity for the final 4 hours.

Ergo, not having common external PSUs on hand at Buffalo Labs is 100% uncalled for.
Very nice, glad it all worked out, BUT, what if the inventory orders you had made was on a truck that slid off the road and was unable to make your delivery?  Your story ended up with a successful ending due to forethought and you were lucky not to have any disasters, mine was a near disaster due to things beyond our control (which an overturned truck would have been for you).  There was a report a while back about a package they received that had been broken open in shipment and they only got something like 29% of their order (I could be off a bit).  This could be the long term effect of that shipment, you never know.

You have the luxury of dreaming of a picture perfert world where nothing goes wrong and when reality doesn't live up to the dream you place blame in what could end up being the wrong place.  I see missing facts, so while you could be right, you equally could be wrong.

Lolz, this guy is funny. Anymore excuses for BFL? How about why they violate the law in regards to FTC regs? I laugh when I read your posts, keep them coming.

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August 24, 2013, 05:26:06 PM
 #194

Dude, I can top that story.

I put in a 25 hour shift at a Waffle House in Florence, AL, on Christmas Day, 2001, the day after a major ice storm, and the electricity was still out during my entire shift.

We were able to cook because all the grills and burners were gas. Candles provided the lighting. From six in the morning to seven the next morning, me and the entire crew, sans two I fired during the shift for bitching (seriously), served a standing room only crowd.

Not a single customer bitched, because they obviously saw that we were doing the best we can to accommodate their needs--hunger--under the extreme circumstance.

I just happened to be the person who made sure that all three restaurants (Florence, Tuscumbia, and Sheffield) were stocked for the normal Christmas Day rush. I was fortunate to see the storm coming, thus overstocked a faction of a percent, of which I took heat for at the time, and even effected my food cost bonus.

None of the three restaurants ran outta food, and they were the only businesses opened during the blackout. While most the locals stayed home, we were feeding all the emergency personnel and people stuck in hotel rooms nearby.

At the end of my shift, I was a ZOMBIE, but returned 8 hours later to do it again for another 12 hours, but with electricity for the final 4 hours.

Ergo, not having common external PSUs on hand at Buffalo Labs is 100% uncalled for.
Very nice, glad it all worked out, BUT, what if the inventory orders you had made was on a truck that slid off the road and was unable to make your delivery?  Your story ended up with a successful ending due to forethought and you were lucky not to have any disasters, mine was a near disaster due to things beyond our control (which an overturned truck would have been for you).  There was a report a while back about a package they received that had been broken open in shipment and they only got something like 29% of their order (I could be off a bit).  This could be the long term effect of that shipment, you never know.

You have the luxury of dreaming of a picture perfert world where nothing goes wrong and when reality doesn't live up to the dream you place blame in what could end up being the wrong place.  I see missing facts, so while you could be right, you equally could be wrong.

Did you miss the part where there were live flames on each table in the form of candles?
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August 24, 2013, 06:46:32 PM
 #195

Dude, I can top that story.

I put in a 25 hour shift at a Waffle House in Florence, AL, on Christmas Day, 2001, the day after a major ice storm, and the electricity was still out during my entire shift.

We were able to cook because all the grills and burners were gas. Candles provided the lighting. From six in the morning to seven the next morning, me and the entire crew, sans two I fired during the shift for bitching (seriously), served a standing room only crowd.

Not a single customer bitched, because they obviously saw that we were doing the best we can to accommodate their needs--hunger--under the extreme circumstance.

I just happened to be the person who made sure that all three restaurants (Florence, Tuscumbia, and Sheffield) were stocked for the normal Christmas Day rush. I was fortunate to see the storm coming, thus overstocked a faction of a percent, of which I took heat for at the time, and even effected my food cost bonus.

None of the three restaurants ran outta food, and they were the only businesses opened during the blackout. While most the locals stayed home, we were feeding all the emergency personnel and people stuck in hotel rooms nearby.

At the end of my shift, I was a ZOMBIE, but returned 8 hours later to do it again for another 12 hours, but with electricity for the final 4 hours.

Ergo, not having common external PSUs on hand at Buffalo Labs is 100% uncalled for.
Very nice, glad it all worked out, BUT, what if the inventory orders you had made was on a truck that slid off the road and was unable to make your delivery?  Your story ended up with a successful ending due to forethought and you were lucky not to have any disasters, mine was a near disaster due to things beyond our control (which an overturned truck would have been for you).  There was a report a while back about a package they received that had been broken open in shipment and they only got something like 29% of their order (I could be off a bit).  This could be the long term effect of that shipment, you never know.

You have the luxury of dreaming of a picture perfert world where nothing goes wrong and when reality doesn't live up to the dream you place blame in what could end up being the wrong place.  I see missing facts, so while you could be right, you equally could be wrong.

Lolz, this guy is funny. Anymore excuses for BFL? How about why they violate the law in regards to FTC regs? I laugh when I read your posts, keep them coming.

I don't think he's trying to make excuses for BFL.   I think he's a contrarian type of guy who enjoys some good rhetoric and is obviously pretty smart and probably educated as well.

I welcome guys like him - it's nice to be able to learn from others even if I disagree.  He makes a valid point even though the flip side of the coin is very true as well.  BFL did very poor planning and even more pathetic execution and very sad communication and tons of lies on top of lies.  Like clearing the backlog by end of August at a time when Josh knew their inventory potential.  There's no excuse for that - just like there's no excuse for running out of common easy to get power supplies.

They were a monopoly and thus acted arrogantly and carelessly like one and now they're gonna lose massive business to Cointerra et al, and deservingly so.

But that doesn't mean there isn't a contrarian view to all of this - there always is.


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August 24, 2013, 06:52:43 PM
 #196

I don't think he's trying to make excuses for BFL.   I think he's a contrarian type of guy who enjoys some good rhetoric and is obviously pretty smart and probably educated as well.

I welcome guys like him - it's nice to be able to learn from others even if I disagree.  He makes a valid point even though the flip side of the coin is very true as well.  BFL did very poor planning and even more pathetic execution and very sad communication and tons of lies on top of lies.  Like clearing the backlog by end of August at a time when Josh knew their inventory potential.  There's no excuse for that - just like there's no excuse for running out of common easy to get power supplies.

They were a monopoly and thus acted arrogantly and carelessly like one and now they're gonna lose massive business to Cointerra et al, and deservingly so.

But that doesn't mean there isn't a contrarian view to all of this - there always is.
+1

Finally someone who thinks.

You sir can ignore my signature!

I do not suffer fools gladly... "Captain!  We're surrounded!"
I embrace my inner Kool-Aid.
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August 24, 2013, 06:59:55 PM
 #197

I don't think he's trying to make excuses for BFL.   I think he's a contrarian type of guy who enjoys some good rhetoric and is obviously pretty smart and probably educated as well.

I welcome guys like him - it's nice to be able to learn from others even if I disagree.  He makes a valid point even though the flip side of the coin is very true as well.  BFL did very poor planning and even more pathetic execution and very sad communication and tons of lies on top of lies.  Like clearing the backlog by end of August at a time when Josh knew their inventory potential.  There's no excuse for that - just like there's no excuse for running out of common easy to get power supplies.

They were a monopoly and thus acted arrogantly and carelessly like one and now they're gonna lose massive business to Cointerra et al, and deservingly so.

But that doesn't mean there isn't a contrarian view to all of this - there always is.
+1

Finally someone who thinks.

You sir can ignore my signature!

I realized you and I are much the same when you first took a big shit on my posts.  Filled with facts to shoot it down and tons of angry opinions but with very much logic.  I simply cannot ignore logic and facts regardless how bad they make me look.  

I have the same insufferable attitude towards people, as you, who refuse to at least attempt to look at the whole picture.  Cause you never know just how wrong you may be until you objectively look at both sides of the coin.


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August 25, 2013, 01:41:08 AM
 #198

Lookeee here, Viceroy missed one!


And a Public Service Announcement!
If you have ordered from BFL and have not yet received your product, you are entitled to a refund whenever you request one (per FTC rules).
First ask Butterfly Labs for one, they will probably say no but you might get lucky.
If you ordered via PayPal you can file a complaint with them even if you are outside the 45 day window. One customer has already gotten a refund from PayPal that was outside the 45 days.
If you ordered via BTC or Bank wire, you can fill out a complaint with the FTC and they will advocate for you with BFL to get your refund. You can also contact the office of the Kansas Attorney General and inform them that you have had your money taken with no product delivered for months, just more promises.

There are also several threads on how to get a refund from BFL, here are two:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=266945.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=272585.0
 














I do not suffer fools gladly... "Captain!  We're surrounded!"
I embrace my inner Kool-Aid.
Vlad2Vlad
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August 25, 2013, 01:47:26 AM
 #199

Lookeee here, Viceroy missed one!


And a Public Service Announcement!
If you have ordered from BFL and have not yet received your product, you are entitled to a refund whenever you request one (per FTC rules).
First ask Butterfly Labs for one, they will probably say no but you might get lucky.
If you ordered via PayPal you can file a complaint with them even if you are outside the 45 day window. One customer has already gotten a refund from PayPal that was outside the 45 days.
If you ordered via BTC or Bank wire, you can fill out a complaint with the FTC and they will advocate for you with BFL to get your refund. You can also contact the office of the Kansas Attorney General and inform them that you have had your money taken with no product delivered for months, just more promises.

There are also several threads on how to get a refund from BFL, here are two:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=266945.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=272585.0
 







------I get the feeling 99% of the complainers don't want a refund cause they could get one pretty easily, especially if they paid with PayPal.

That said, I can't blame the guys waiting for a year now for complaining, albeit, complaining won't get you anywhere and excess complaining will only slow down the progress at BFL.  One should think twice before blasting at management unless you've got nothing on the line and you just wanna vent.  We still have freedom of speech for a while longer.

------------


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August 25, 2013, 01:52:12 AM
 #200

I do believe however BFL should do something to help the ROI for those who have been waiting too long.

It's not too much to ask for some extra hash power at cost.  Just enough to help get over that cost curve, especially since they're gonna start shipping chips soon (another broken promise) which will drive difficulty that much higher.

Afterall, Cointerra is offering just that.  They promise if they won't ship on time they will add FREE hash power to make up for the change in difficulty.

And this seems fair to me - especially if BFL doesn't lose anything.  I'm willing to pay for the extra hashes, just give me a decent rate and don't put me at the back of the line.

If BFL doesn't realize how much they have disenfranchised their main, most loyal customers they will cease to exist before 2014 is over.  Honor your customers and they will honor you.  It's such a simple ethos yet few companies practice it.  This is a big reason why apple is the most profitable tech company in the world.  

Thus far, BFL has been short sighted and it may cost them their very existence if somebody at the top doesn't realize what's more important:  short term profits or loyal, long term customers.  It's a simple choice, but will they choose to do the right thing?


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