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Author Topic: -- Butterfly Labs New 600GH "Mining Card" - RED FLAGS?!?!  (Read 46711 times)
amencon
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October 14, 2013, 05:03:03 AM
 #401

Cointerra said on their press release last month that tape out was scheduled for the first week of October, I just want to know if that happened, because that's as late as you would want to be for pre-Xmas shipping.

First week came and went and there was not a peep from Cointerra.  Generally the three largest milestones in an ASIC products are
1) devices shipping
2) chips have arrived
3) tapeout complete

while Cointerra has never come out and said "we haven't completed out tapeout" they have simply said nothing.  Given the huge significance of a completed tapeout (which also signifies NRE costs are complete AND the company has paid for the first batch of wafers) it would be "strange" for a company to complete that milestone and remain silent.
While I'm not disagreeing with anything you've said and would expect some mention of taping out, if memory serves, KNC taped out and didn't say anything until weeks(?) later after many requests for that information from the forums.  So unless I'm mistaken, there is a precedent of a manufacturer taping out and not making it public knowledge right away.
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October 14, 2013, 05:04:59 AM
 #402

Cointerra said on their press release last month that tape out was scheduled for the first week of October, I just want to know if that happened, because that's as late as you would want to be for pre-Xmas shipping.

First week came and went and there was not a peep from Cointerra.  Generally the three largest milestones in an ASIC products are
1) devices shipping
2) chips have arrived
3) tapeout complete

while Cointerra has never come out and said "we haven't completed out tapeout" they have simply said nothing.  Given the huge significance of a completed tapeout (which also signifies NRE costs are complete AND the company has paid for the first batch of wafers) it would be "strange" for a company to complete that milestone and remain silent.
While I'm not disagreeing with anything you've said and would expect some mention of taping out, if memory serves, KNC taped out and didn't say anything until weeks(?) later after many requests for that information from the forums.  So unless I'm mistaken, there is a precedent of a manufacturer taping out and not making it public knowledge right away.

Well it has been a week later and multiple people have asked both on the forum and indicated they sent emails with absolute silence coming back from the company.
amencon
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October 14, 2013, 05:12:06 AM
 #403

Cointerra said on their press release last month that tape out was scheduled for the first week of October, I just want to know if that happened, because that's as late as you would want to be for pre-Xmas shipping.

First week came and went and there was not a peep from Cointerra.  Generally the three largest milestones in an ASIC products are
1) devices shipping
2) chips have arrived
3) tapeout complete

while Cointerra has never come out and said "we haven't completed out tapeout" they have simply said nothing.  Given the huge significance of a completed tapeout (which also signifies NRE costs are complete AND the company has paid for the first batch of wafers) it would be "strange" for a company to complete that milestone and remain silent.
While I'm not disagreeing with anything you've said and would expect some mention of taping out, if memory serves, KNC taped out and didn't say anything until weeks(?) later after many requests for that information from the forums.  So unless I'm mistaken, there is a precedent of a manufacturer taping out and not making it public knowledge right away.

Well it has been a week later and multiple people have asked both on the forum and indicated they sent emails with absolute silence coming back from the company.
Yeah doesn't sound good, that's for sure.
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October 14, 2013, 05:43:27 AM
 #404

EVIDENCE....


Where is the EVIDENCE?

We don't need to go off of statements considering other companies provide transparency during these development milestones.

BFL have failed to provide anything remotely verifiable in terms of the development of the ASIC chip for the Monarch. A faux / dummy Monarch board means very little given that the key component the chips are not even on the drawing board. We have been down this same road with BFL before. They state something people make purchases based on statements without any real evidence to support it and given their history so far why anyone would given them the benefit of the doubt, let alone any ASIC fabricator, is beyond reason at this point.

So to recap.

BFL has nothing.
Cointerra has nothing.
KnC has something.
BitFury has something.
Avalon has something but won't ship it as promised so you should steer clear of GEN2 as it it won't ROI anyhow.
Hash Fast has something mid way through production.
Black Arrow has nothing yet but more reliable than most given their past FPGAs.
BTCGarden has something but is way too slow and won't ROI.

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Paladin69
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October 14, 2013, 09:07:24 AM
 #405

BFL said they did their tape out back in August.

BFL says a lot of things.
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October 14, 2013, 09:13:14 AM
 #406

BFL said they did their tape out back in August.

BFL says a lot of things.

and deliver nothing! (within 12 months)
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October 16, 2013, 12:28:32 PM
 #407

When I last spoke with the Cointerra management (after their successful code test) it was explained to me they already sent everything for tapeout and it was supposed to occur/complete in October. I haven't since requested a sitrep from them. I get the feeling they're doing things ahead of their projected timeline in order to try and speed things up.

They seem similar to KNC in many ways--their news is updated haphazardly in the 'early' stage, they're primarily a design team which is outsourcing chip manufacture, cooling and case design. They're using some assembly teams (outsourced I believe) to basically put all the parts together, similar to how KNC did it: The chips come back, and most of the design is just plug&play--click something here, plug this wire in, etc. This facilitates swift ramp-up of high volume assemblies for shipment.

As I assessed in the KNC thread using theoretical values, KNC would be able to assemble and ship huge quantities of machines a day using this method. Cointerra would be able to do the same, and they told me that was basically their plan. IIRC, and I'm not sure if this is public info or not, but I remember hearing the number 25,000 units/day capability.


One of BFL's largest setbacks was the assembly process was not plug-n-go like KNC/Cointerra's designs. There was much manual labor involved. This killed swift production line capabilities. Honestly the plug-n-play method is how it should've been done from day one, not sure why BFL didn't go with this method.

As to BFL using someone else's chips, it wouldn't surprise me and would be a good move on their part. No matter how much they want to deny it publically, they are being reviewed legally and are being watched. I highly doubt they'll exist as a legal entity for much longer if their scrupulous practices continue, including upcharging folks for order transfers. I'm seeing them add "shipping fees" to orders which were well beyond the April increase, and already paid, saying it costs them money to process the address change. BS it doesn't cost you $20-$30 per device to change a shipping label which is months away from being placed.

They're desperate for cash right now. Whenever an entity is desperate for cold hard cash that's a big clue there's a huge problem. That's a red flag, as if you needed another one for BFL.

If I was going to put a lot of money into a BTC rig right now, it would be Cointerra, followed up by Hashfast as a close second. I've spoken to Black Arrow a few times, really mixed feelings on them. They have good FPGA history, but I just don't get the warm fuzzies with them.

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October 18, 2013, 07:06:27 AM
 #408

A curious update on the Monarch tape out

https://products.butterflylabs.com/homepage-new-products/1-gh-cloud-hosted-bitcoin-hashing-power.html

On that page it says they haven't done the tape out yet.


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October 18, 2013, 07:10:37 AM
 #409

A curious update on the Monarch tape out

https://products.butterflylabs.com/homepage-new-products/1-gh-cloud-hosted-bitcoin-hashing-power.html

On that page it says they haven't done the tape out yet.




Say it ain't so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They have to have taped out..............Josh promised  Cry   He wouldn't lie would he  Huh

"If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day long, you are the asshole."  -Raylan Givens
Got GOXXED ?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KiqRpPiJAU&feature=youtu.be
"An ASIC being late is perfectly normal, predictable, and legal..."Hashfast & BFL slogan Smiley
Bicknellski
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October 18, 2013, 08:18:35 AM
 #410

A curious update on the Monarch tape out

https://products.butterflylabs.com/homepage-new-products/1-gh-cloud-hosted-bitcoin-hashing-power.html

On that page it says they haven't done the tape out yet.




Who cares? We already know they didn't tape out. Basically they have NO CHIP on the drawing board at all.

It is suicidal to buy anything currently let alone buying from BFL.

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October 18, 2013, 02:08:18 PM
 #411

A curious update on the Monarch tape out

https://products.butterflylabs.com/homepage-new-products/1-gh-cloud-hosted-bitcoin-hashing-power.html

On that page it says they haven't done the tape out yet.




Who cares? We already know they didn't tape out. Basically they have NO CHIP on the drawing board at all.

It is suicidal to buy anything currently let alone buying from BFL.
i think the point is that we need to have alot more people become aware of all of BFL's Major scamtastic downfalls

Selling cloud hosted vaporware with BTC only payments? HOW MUCH MORE SCAMTASTIC CAN YOU GET!

http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=DingoRabiit&sign=ANY&type=RECV <-My Ratings
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=857670.0 GAWminers and associated things are not to be trusted, Especially the "mineral" exchange
erk
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October 18, 2013, 04:28:07 PM
 #412


i think the point is that we need to have alot more people become aware of all of BFL's Major scamtastic downfalls

Selling cloud hosted vaporware with BTC only payments? HOW MUCH MORE SCAMTASTIC CAN YOU GET!
The cloud hosting is pretty much an open admission that BFL intend to mine in competition with their clients, I mean if you rent 100GH/s of hashing power from them, what are they going to do, turn the remaining 500GH/s on that Monarch, send it to the testnet until they sell it? I think not, I bet you it goes straight onto the main net.

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October 19, 2013, 09:47:55 PM
 #413

A curious update on the Monarch tape out

https://products.butterflylabs.com/homepage-new-products/1-gh-cloud-hosted-bitcoin-hashing-power.html

On that page it says they haven't done the tape out yet.




Pretty old page....with the same info on it from start...

Where do you see an update ?
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October 19, 2013, 10:13:12 PM
 #414


i think the point is that we need to have alot more people become aware of all of BFL's Major scamtastic downfalls

Selling cloud hosted vaporware with BTC only payments? HOW MUCH MORE SCAMTASTIC CAN YOU GET!
The cloud hosting is pretty much an open admission that BFL intend to mine in competition with their clients, I am if you rent 100GH/s of hashing power from them, what are they going to do, turn the remaining 500GH/s on that Monarch, send it to the testnet until they sell it? I think not, I bet you it goes straight onto the main net.



This is what they have now officially said publicly ..

Un-Offically J morgan Hosting SITE AREA 51 is already chock full of directors mining operations from the geko

Its good to see we are NOW all on the same page with Big Fucking Lies


OBJECT NOT FOUND
DPoS
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October 20, 2013, 07:33:13 AM
 #415

and I'm not sure if this is public info or not, but I remember hearing the number 25,000 units/day capability.


aside from the normal grade horseshit in this shilling post, this statement on 25,000 a day is a complete stinking pile of wonder bullshit

 Huh

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October 20, 2013, 08:29:33 AM
 #416

and I'm not sure if this is public info or not, but I remember hearing the number 25,000 units/day capability.


aside from the normal grade horseshit in this shilling post, this statement on 25,000 a day is a complete stinking pile of wonder bullshit

 Huh


Ahahaahahaaaa.

Try 25 per day.   Josh the Troll came out and said 400 per day of the easy to build Mickey Mouse jalapeños and in reality they never even got close.

25,000 per day is a complete joke, a total lie and absolute impossibility. 

But definitely a great laugh!!!


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October 20, 2013, 09:22:50 AM
 #417

As to BFL using someone else's chips, it wouldn't surprise me and would be a good move on their part.

Ive suspected this from day 1, that they are using Cointerra's chip. The specs line up very well if you include the BFL exaggeration factor or overclocking. It might explain why they go with a completely daft form factor, so its not direct competition to CT, it would explain why we arent hearing anything about it, since they basically wouldnt know anything CT doesnt tell them.

A BFL/CT deal makes good sense for both parties. CT has the skilled engineers that BFL clearly doesnt have, and BFL has a huge installed customer base that they can force feed unprofitable 28nm "upgrades" of undelivered 65nm orders.
erk
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October 20, 2013, 09:50:39 AM
 #418

As to BFL using someone else's chips, it wouldn't surprise me and would be a good move on their part.

Ive suspected this from day 1, that they are using Cointerra's chip. The specs line up very well if you include the BFL exaggeration factor or overclocking. It might explain why they go with a completely daft form factor, so its not direct competition to CT, it would explain why we arent hearing anything about it, since they basically wouldnt know anything CT doesnt tell them.

A BFL/CT deal makes good sense for both parties. CT has the skilled engineers that BFL clearly doesnt have, and BFL has a huge installed customer base that they can force feed unprofitable 28nm "upgrades" of undelivered 65nm orders.

The specs don't line up at all, I don't know where you pulled that from. The Monarch uses 2 x 300GH/s  1,020 pin chips.

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October 20, 2013, 09:53:41 AM
 #419

The Monarch uses 2 x 300GH/s  1,020 pin chips.



Let me correct that...

They have no chips on the design board whatsoever. Stating the Monarch uses anything is pure fantasy.

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erk
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October 20, 2013, 09:58:01 AM
 #420

The Monarch uses 2 x 300GH/s  1,020 pin chips.



Let me correct that...

They have no chips on the design board whatsoever. Stating the Monarch uses anything is pure fantasy.
Yeah sure, a troll like you would really know.
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