BFL Monarch - Delivery Dates

[heldertb]

According to FTC rules you do not have to wait for a refund.

Don't let them screw you over.

2 options.

1. Report they are not refunding you to Sonny V's probation officer.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/217190031/2014-01-28-USA-v-Vleisides-Transcript

Code:

Now, the company's critics have fresh ammunition because of this 
same executive. A federal judge in Kansas has ruled that the man in 
question, Sonny Vleisides, violated the terms of his probation in the 
lottery scam case. As a result, Vleisides’ probation—previously slated 
to end in September 2013—will now continue for another two years. 

2. Join the class action lawsuit here.

I'm not going to do that yet, as I'm also not a US citizen...

[1713906950]

1713906950

[1713906950]

1713906950

[k9quaint]

According to FTC rules you do not have to wait for a refund.

Don't let them screw you over.

2 options.

1. Report they are not refunding you to Sonny V's probation officer.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/217190031/2014-01-28-USA-v-Vleisides-Transcript

Code:

Now, the company's critics have fresh ammunition because of this 
same executive. A federal judge in Kansas has ruled that the man in 
question, Sonny Vleisides, violated the terms of his probation in the 
lottery scam case. As a result, Vleisides’ probation—previously slated 
to end in September 2013—will now continue for another two years. 

2. Join the class action lawsuit here.

I'm not going to do that yet, as I'm also not a US citizen...

That won't matter. The FTC is enforcing rules that BFL is supposed to follow, it doesn't matter where there customers are. The probation officer is enforcing rules Sonny is supposed to follow (e.g. don't rip people off anymore).
You don't need to be a US citizen in order to join the class action.

[Bicknellski]

Do not have to be a US citizen to get justice.

Good luck.

USA v Vleisides Transcript

Code:

Q. And similar to what we talked about before, is ButterflyLabs keeping 
its customers apprised of its progress in that regard?

A. Yes. I think, you know, we had a newsletter that was just recently released 
to anyone who's ordered from us before advising them of the status of the 
current product.

Q. Okay. So, in other words, they're not hiding from the product, that they are 
trying to address it actively?

A. Yes.

Judge:  But if I find out that there is this fraud word involved in this part,
you know, Mr. Vleisides, as we say here at the courthouse, you need to 
get your toothbrush and get your things in order,  because fraud will not be 
tolerated, you understand that? So I would work very hard to make these 
consumers happy consumers who you've dealt with.

I hope Butterfly Labs is a legitimate company that enjoys success. But 
there's a smell, and that's what I'm addressing today.

Over a year later and we still have to let people know you are NOT required to wait for a refund. Do not believe what BFL tells you are the terms they are counter to FTC regulations. The miner may have changed but this time Sonny V. has to refund or face jail. It is in your best interesting to request a refund now and explain clearly to BFL you will be reporting it to his probation officer.

Let's run this up the flagpole.  Is Butterfly labs breaking any known American federal or state laws?  


I'm wondering about:

Technology Export Laws
Mail or mail order fraud (Like the ?founder? appears to have plead guilty to)
Uniform Commercial Code
Money printing machine laws
FCC (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110805.msg2622757#msg2622757)
other


This is in response to the long running thread here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110805.0

Since they have stopped issuing refunds it certainly appears to me (IANAL) they are at least breaking FTC regulations.  It would seem that UNTIL the product is physically shipped a customer has the right to cancel their order (for ANY reason) and the company MUST issue a prompt refund.  

Below is quoted from the link at the FTC site (bolded is mine)

When You Must Cancel an Order

You must cancel an order and provide a prompt refund when:
•the customer exercises any option to cancel before you ship the merchandise;
•the customer does not respond to your first notice of a definite revised shipment date of 30 days or less and you have not shipped the merchandise or received the customer’s consent to a further delay by the definite revised shipment date;
•the customer does not respond to your notice of a definite revised shipment date of more than 30 days (or your notice that you are unable to provide a definite revised shipment date) and you have not shipped the merchandise within 30 days of the original shipment date;
•the customer consents to a definite delay and you have not shipped or obtained the customer’s consent to any additional delay by the shipment time the customer consented to;
•you have not shipped or provided the required delay or renewed option notices on time; or
•you determine that you will never be able to ship the merchandise.

http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus02-business-guide-mail-and-telephone-order-merchandise-rule

Public Service Announcement:

If you have ordered from Butterfly Labs (BFL) and have not yet received your product, you are entitled to a refund whenever you request one (per FTC rules).

First ask Butterfly Labs (BFL) for one, they will probably say no but you might get lucky.
If you ordered via PayPal you can file a complaint with them even if you are outside the 45 day window. One customer has already gotten a refund from PayPal that was outside the 45 days.

If you ordered via BTC or Bank wire, you can fill out a complaint with the FTC and they will advocate for you with Butterfly Labs (BFL) to get your refund. You can also contact the office of the Kansas Attorney General and inform them that you have had your money taken with no product delivered for months, just more promises.

There are also several threads on how to get a refund from Butterfly Labs (BFL), here are two:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=266945.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=272585.0

[heldertb]

Thanx guys, appreciate the help a lot, will be using it if I find it necessary, but going to wait 1 more week for asking the refund. What are you guys suggesting for best hardware to buy with the 3k I'll be getting back from BFL? Spondoolies-Tech, Antminer,...?

[Bicknellski]

If you are still considering mining... sure those are worth looking at as they have stock and ship same day or check group buys https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=137.0 as you might find cheaper prices. Bitmain https://www.bitmaintech.com/  and Spondoolies http://www.spondoolies-tech.com/.

[heldertb]

If you are still considering mining... sure those are worth looking at as they have stock and ship same day or check group buys https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=137.0 as you might find cheaper prices. Bitmain https://www.bitmaintech.com/  and Spondoolies http://www.spondoolies-tech.com/.

What's the big advantage of a group buy?

[Bicknellski]

If you are still considering mining... sure those are worth looking at as they have stock and ship same day or check group buys https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=137.0 as you might find cheaper prices. Bitmain https://www.bitmaintech.com/  and Spondoolies http://www.spondoolies-tech.com/.

What's the big advantage of a group buy?

Find the right one at the right time... cheaper hardware. But be careful. Check the GB leader before investing anything see if they have run successful GB's before.

[Pokokohua!]

lol so they still haven't delivered this? Wasn't it supposed to be like in February delivery lol?

sooo bad to them and the people that trusted him to deliver.

Let me guess no way to make profit now?

It was due in December 2013 and there was no way to make a profit in January 2014 if it was late. No matter the promises and the compensation they are "willing" to provide this design is a loser in so many ways.

Don't forget you have to pay for a few extras like the psu, host computer, fire extinguisher and the small subsidy through burn-in to pay for Josh's and Sonny's McMansions.

This card is a dog no matter how you slice it. If you just give up and buy an S1 you would be better off than waiting many many many months more for something that actually works. Don't walk away from BFL RUN!

Why is BFL losing to the competition?

Code:

Technical update

With a successful tapeout behind us, we can now safely update the SP30 specs. 
We're happy to announce that the SP30 will be able to hash at 6 TH/s, with an 
efficiency of 0.46 W/GH/s. This is a new industry standard never seen before, 
and the lowest price-to-performance ratio in the market!

While people are getting the Monarch... most people will be getting something a lot better. More POWER for LESS.


All the personal attacks against me means for me to work harder and longer at getting this simple message out. Eclipse Mining Consortium and BFL are not good for Bitcoin and as any customer of BFL knows it is just disappointment after disappointment. Return customer rates for BFL are the lowest in the industry for a good reason.

Darin M. Bicknell, 95% of your posts are personal attacks, still weaseling out when asked 4 times in a row for proof for your shill- and alt accounts accusations, and in the meantime you are shilling for Spoondolies yourself for a discount. So it's highly likely you are having alt accounts here yourself, but now to prop up your own wasp fantasy thread which seems pretty dead without those.

[Unacceptable]

Looks like you made another "friend" Bick!!!!   

[Bicknellski]

Looks like you made another "friend" Bick!!!!  

Did I?

Aww how cute.

The only reason for the hate filled drip from Pokokohua!-1278 is the truth is too hard for BFL to accept. I love how he begs for BFL to end the contest, asks others to give him positive trust. He wants BFL to draw for the "Monarch" because his "name" is getting slammed here in Trust on this forum. Oh the IRONY one can taste the just rewards for his own stupidity from here.

----------

Let us bottomline the debate for the guy.


S2 - 1 Th/s can be purchased right now and delivered immediately for $3,099.

SP10 - 1.4 Th/s can be purchased right now and delivered or hosted immediately for $2,795.00.

Monarch can not be delivered or hosted now at any price.

So in conclusion do not buy BFL or get hosting at EclispsMC, in fact do everyone a favor stop mining at EclipseMC all together.

And as added bonus SpondooliesTech is developing a chip that is 0.1 w/ghs  and costs $0.2 gh/s. When evaluating anything BFL and their friends might actually have a debate on the facts as opposed the hate speech that they think passes as human communication.

[dropt]

S2 - 1 Th/s can be purchased right now and delivered immediately for $3,099.

They were actually at $2309 with $400 off coupons floating all over the place.  Shipped within 48 Hrs after ordering.  Work like a hot-damn.  Mind you, they only have "kits" right now for $2260 (and the $400 coupon still applies).

For anyone who wants to boast about the Monarch's alleged (fudged) power usage I invite them to do the math and present their findings here.  Any benefit will likely take a full year to pay-off, which is long past the viable lifespan of the Monarch.

[dogie]

That guy is just Josh, right?

[dropt]

That guy is just Josh, right?

Hard to say.  At one point I was sure that it was, but I'm not so certain now.  One thing is for sure:  whomever is posting under that name is either a) posting someone else's words; or b) not the person who made the account.

[dogie]

That guy is just Josh, right?

Hard to say.  At one point I was sure that it was, but I'm not so certain now.  One thing is for sure:  whomever is posting under that name is either a) posting someone else's words, or b) not the person who made the account.

All his trusts left towards me are really specific to things Josh would 'complain' about regarding me.... Josh can you just pm me so we can sort this out please.

[Unacceptable]

Josh has idiots like that wrapped around his little pecker 

They're hoping that the more they emulate him(Josh),the better their chances are of getting a free Monarch.Have you read the BFL forum lately ??

Utter asskissing everywhere,"Your the greatest Josh,I love you!!!!!"   

What a bunch of brainwashed morons,I should know....I was one in 2012 

Little do they know that Josh will skew the raffle & not ship anything till December or early next year........when 600GH earns .0001BTC per day 

Dogie,don't worry about your trust rateings,if anyone believes the negs you got,thier dumber than a BFL customer 

[dropt]

In other news BFL has announced that they've fucked up the PCB design again.  Board overheats and shuts down because they jammed 900A of DC/DC regulation into one spot in the center of the board.  They allege that an increase in copper weight of the power planes will solve the problem.  What to expect: more delays and future fuckups.

Oh and that's when driving the board to 700GH/s although they claim it still occurs at 600GH/S.  Good luck with that 1TH businesss BFL.

[Searing]

That guy is just Josh, right?

imho ANYONE here that backs BFL at this point ..HAS TO BE Josh....I mean really....why get on a forum and take everyone on ..with the "facts' so
obvious that BFL has failed....there can be NO other reason to do so imho

of course I've heard of folks that just like 'abuse' but I mean really.....it is more likely all Josh!

(well partially the above could be in jest ..but then again.......who knows?)

Searing

[Bicknellski]

S2 - 1 Th/s can be purchased right now and delivered immediately for $3,099.

They were actually at $2309 with $400 off coupons floating all over the place.  Shipped within 48 Hrs after ordering.  Work like a hot-damn.  Mind you, they only have "kits" right now for $2260 (and the $400 coupon still applies).

For anyone who wants to boast about the Monarch's alleged (fudged) power usage I invite them to do the math and present their findings here.  Any benefit will likely take a full year to pay-off, which is long past the viable lifespan of the Monarch.

Yes... that is true... thanks for the info Dropt.

In other news BFL has announced that they've fucked up the PCB design again.  Board overheats and shuts down because they jammed 900A of DC/DC regulation into one spot in the center of the board.  They allege that an increase in copper weight of the power planes will solve the problem.  What to expect: more delays and future fuckups.

Oh and that's when driving the board to 700GH/s although they claim it still occurs at 600GH/S.  Good luck with that 1TH businesss BFL.

OUCH.

Get a refund buy something else or get some BTC... price on the rise to 700 high possible then sell at the top buy at the new bottom.

At this point you can't seriously consider a BFL product or using EclispeMC.

[heldertb]

I just emailed them asking for a refund. Said I want to have my money within 3 days, lets see what they'll reply tomorrow! I'll keep you updated

[Xian01]

In other news BFL has announced that they've fucked up the PCB design again.  Board overheats and shuts down because they jammed 900A of DC/DC regulation into one spot in the center of the board.  They allege that an increase in copper weight of the power planes will solve the problem.  What to expect: more delays and future fuckups.

Oh and that's when driving the board to 700GH/s although they claim it still occurs at 600GH/S.  Good luck with that 1TH businesss BFL.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_josh/

"Extended periods of time testing have shown that the boards will gradually build up heat and eventually fail due to one of the copper layers in the board being too thin. Even at 600 GH/s, the board will start to build up heat and will start to get slower and/or die from heat build up. This is exacerbated if it is in a hotter environment. For this reason, we can't ship these boards to customers"

 I wonder if the failure in the copper layers produces a stench or a strong smell...