Do we want to continue to allow various vendor hate in here?

[gmaxwell]

The forum is overrun with the hate of the day with various "hardware"(/vaporware) vendors, it has become hard to discuss anything else. Many of the participants are behaving like animals.

I'm sensitive to the risk of suppressing complaints. There have been many scam hardware "vendors" of various degrees. People should be able to communicate about the risks, seek recourse, etc.   At the same time, these complaints have reached an intensity where they are self defeating.  If you tell me vendor X is a scam I don't know if its because they are or because you're crazy, because you're a shill for another vendor, because you're a shill for them trying to make the complainers look crazy, if you're a miner trying to scare people out of mining, etc.  As a warning this information is no longer very helpful.

I have multiple people I know (and have met in person and know not to be socks) begging me to do something about the sad state of this subforum.  But I'm at a loss... how do we defeat troll culture when it's taking the form of "concern troll" about concerns we should be careful to preserve? And how can we do it without making me and miningbuddy censors who have to vet every single post?

Does anyone have any great ideas?

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[davecoin]

I used to really enjoy visiting the custom hardware forum to view the progression of different hardware.  Now I visit and see a bunch of crap like this:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=281289.0

and

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=278844.0



I'm glad to see that you are already moving some of these types of threads, and for that I thank you.  

Have you considered creating separate vendor subforums?  That may at least allow new members to chose what they want to be exposed to.  I understand that being protected from scams is important, but imo that is what the Scam Accusations forum should be used for.  

[k9quaint]

The forum is overrun with the hate of the day with various "hardware"(/vaporware) vendors, it has become hard to discuss anything else. Many of the participants are behaving like animals.

I'm sensitive to the risk of suppressing complaints. There have been many scam hardware "vendors" of various degrees. People should be able to communicate about the risks, seek recourse, etc.   At the same time, these complaints have reached an intensity where they are self defeating.  If you tell me vendor X is a scam I don't know if its because they are or because you're crazy, because you're a shill for another vendor, because you're a shill for them trying to make the complainers look crazy, if you're a miner trying to scare people out of mining, etc.  As a warning this information is no longer very helpful.

I have multiple people I know (and have met in person and know not to be socks) begging me to do something about the sad state of this subforum.  But I'm at a loss... how do we defeat troll culture when it's taking the form of "concern troll" about concerns we should be careful to preserve? And how can we do it without making me and miningbuddy censors who have to vet every single post?

Does anyone have any great ideas?

Firstly, I'd like to note for the record, that humans are animals.

My solution:
1) make "concern troll" posts take the form of iambic pentameter.
2) make fanboi posts have to be haiku form that are also palindromes

The enforcement of those two criteria should easy to automate.

If that doesn't warm your cockles, then perhaps two separate forums for custom hardware, Shipping & Vaporware.
BFL singles & Jalapenos discussions would be in Shipping. Monarch discussions would be in Vaporware.

Make exit from the vaporware forum contingent on you fondling a physical example of of the device (in a vat of mineral oil and then posting the video on YouTube).

[Cyberdyne]

I'm pretty much against copyright laws as they exist today, but the one thing I like about the DMCA is that people can get in trouble for making false accusations.

Perhaps if people got a scammer tag for falsely accusing someone else of being a scammer, they'd think more carefully about it.

[erk]

You need to appoint some mods, and set some simple rules as a sticky at the top of the subforum that's having problems. The mods can then enforce those rules and people calm down pretty quickly. The OCAU forums I hang out on, if the mod thinks there is something offensive in a post, they snip it out, and put the reason in bright red where the text was that broke the rules, and give a warning all can see if necessary. They don't just secretly delete content without giving a reason, it's all above board.  Locking derailed threads is important too.

[KWH]

Pretty simple solution: IGNORE.

[YipYip]

You cant have your cake and eat it as well ....

Mods continually ignore the calls by the masses to give BFL & Assoc a Scammer tag or at least Untrustworthy

[Red_Wolf_2]

I think a temporary cool-down ban or block for people wouldn't go amiss. Say, for excessive personal attacks or unfounded accusations you get an initial 24 hour ban, then for repeat offenders it goes up, second offence 48 hours, third 96, etc, etc, etc...
I think a blanket ban on doxing people wouldn't be a bad idea either.

[Viceroy]

Mods continually ignore the calls by the masses to give BFL & Assoc a Scammer tag or at least Untrustworthy

^  this.  All the while BFL continues to advertise in this forum even though they do not deliver ordered product.


Red wolf is a shill for BFL and his thoughts are based upon his knowledge that the community at large is not going to take BFL's lies anymore.

Inaba needs a scammer tag and then a perma-ban; he is far more dangerous than Matthew ever was.
After that is done we can see who else needs to be banned (BFL fanbois like red wolf).

[southerngentuk]

You cant have your cake and eat it as well ....

Mods continually ignore the calls by the masses to give BFL & Assoc a Scammer tag or at least Untrustworthy

I also feel BFL advertisements should only be allowed with a warning attached.

------------------------------------------

Vendor specific sub-forums would help a lot (maybe on the chip level).

each vendor sub-forum should contain a mod sticky with factual warning for newbies and a rant thread for members to debate.

mods to point members to the rant thread for bickering/discussion.

[Red_Wolf_2]

I think a temporary cool-down ban or block for people wouldn't go amiss. Say, for excessive personal attacks or unfounded accusations you get an initial 24 hour ban, then for repeat offenders it goes up, second offence 48 hours, third 96, etc, etc, etc...
I think a blanket ban on doxing people wouldn't be a bad idea either.

Mods continually ignore the calls by the masses to give BFL & Assoc a Scammer tag or at least Untrustworthy

^  this.  All the while BFL continues to advertise in this forum even though they do not deliver ordered product.


Red wolf is a shill for BFL and his thoughts are based upon his knowledge that the community at large is not going to take BFL's lies anymore.

Inaba needs a scammer tag and then a perma-ban; he is far more dangerous than Matthew ever was.
After that is done we can see who else needs to be banned (BFL fanbois like red wolf).

I nominate Viceroy as first for making unfounded accusation. To be a shill I'd have to be deriving some sort of benefit from BFL or its associates. I'm not. I've waited like everyone else for my devices and finally got them. I have no pending orders with BFL for any gear, and I didn't even get a mug. Ergo, I'm not a shill, I'm just not a hater like Viceroy.

[Viceroy]

Alright you may not be a shill, but you are certainly a fanboi.  Now I understand why you defend Josh, because he made you a little bit of money. 

It's unfortunate you are unable to show any compassion for those who were completely screwed by Josh's lies. 

[niko]

Only product-specific threads allowed, once you, or your apointee, receive(s) a working device. It is up to vendors to supply these, including an optional prepaid return shipping if they desire them returned.

No product, no thread.

This is guaranteed to eliminate the majority of madness on all sides. You would be left with legitimate vendors, legitimate customers, and an occasional shill or a troll, much like in other subfora.

[k9quaint]

Only product-specific threads allowed, once you, or your apointee, receive(s) a working device. It is up to vendors to supply these, including an optional prepaid return shipping if they desire them returned.

No product, no thread.

This is guaranteed to eliminate the majority of madness on all sides. You would be left with legitimate vendors, legitimate customers, and an occasional shill or a troll, much like in other subfora.

I like the "no product, no thread" idea.
Shunt everything else to mining speculation or scam accusation.

[Viceroy]

Only product-specific threads allowed, once you, or your apointee, receive(s) a working device. It is up to vendors to supply these, including an optional prepaid return shipping if they desire them returned.

No product, no thread.

This is guaranteed to eliminate the majority of madness on all sides. You would be left with legitimate vendors, legitimate customers, and an occasional shill or a troll, much like in other subfora.

So then you can't have discussions about hardware you are building?

You need another category for what you want:

1) hardware you can purchase today (BFL would not be in such a place as they have no product to sell at this time)
2) hardware that is in development (lots of noise here, like the BFL monarch).

[southerngentuk]

You cant have your cake and eat it as well ....

Mods continually ignore the calls by the masses to give BFL & Assoc a Scammer tag or at least Untrustworthy

I also feel BFL advertisements should only be allowed with a warning attached.

------------------------------------------

Vendor specific sub-forums would help a lot (maybe on the chip level).

each vendor sub-forum should contain a mod sticky with factual warning for newbies and a rant thread for members to debate.

mods to point members to the rant thread for bickering/discussion.

Edit :
Maybe a caution button next to the ignore.
When the member gets to 50 cautions has posts highlight red with a warning in there signature.
This way the community can take its own action independent of mods..

bets on how long before a member beginning with I is bright red..  Danger Will Robinson, Danger

[southerngentuk]

I think a temporary cool-down ban or block for people wouldn't go amiss. Say, for excessive personal attacks or unfounded accusations you get an initial 24 hour ban, then for repeat offenders it goes up, second offence 48 hours, third 96, etc, etc, etc...
I think a blanket ban on doxing people wouldn't be a bad idea either.

Mods continually ignore the calls by the masses to give BFL & Assoc a Scammer tag or at least Untrustworthy

^  this.  All the while BFL continues to advertise in this forum even though they do not deliver ordered product.


Red wolf is a shill for BFL and his thoughts are based upon his knowledge that the community at large is not going to take BFL's lies anymore.

Inaba needs a scammer tag and then a perma-ban; he is far more dangerous than Matthew ever was.
After that is done we can see who else needs to be banned (BFL fanbois like red wolf).

I nominate Viceroy as first for making unfounded accusation. To be a shill I'd have to be deriving some sort of benefit from BFL or its associates. I'm not. I've waited like everyone else for my devices and finally got them. I have no pending orders with BFL for any gear, and I didn't even get a mug. Ergo, I'm not a shill, I'm just not a hater like Viceroy.

Perfect example of how threads get derailed and what we all have to avoid.  Off to the rant thread the pair of you !

[Red_Wolf_2]

I think a temporary cool-down ban or block for people wouldn't go amiss. Say, for excessive personal attacks or unfounded accusations you get an initial 24 hour ban, then for repeat offenders it goes up, second offence 48 hours, third 96, etc, etc, etc...
I think a blanket ban on doxing people wouldn't be a bad idea either.

Mods continually ignore the calls by the masses to give BFL & Assoc a Scammer tag or at least Untrustworthy

^  this.  All the while BFL continues to advertise in this forum even though they do not deliver ordered product.


Red wolf is a shill for BFL and his thoughts are based upon his knowledge that the community at large is not going to take BFL's lies anymore.

Inaba needs a scammer tag and then a perma-ban; he is far more dangerous than Matthew ever was.
After that is done we can see who else needs to be banned (BFL fanbois like red wolf).

I nominate Viceroy as first for making unfounded accusation. To be a shill I'd have to be deriving some sort of benefit from BFL or its associates. I'm not. I've waited like everyone else for my devices and finally got them. I have no pending orders with BFL for any gear, and I didn't even get a mug. Ergo, I'm not a shill, I'm just not a hater like Viceroy.

Perfect example of how threads get derailed and what we all have to avoid.  Off to the rant thread the pair of you !

Yep, agreed. I promise not to comment on it any further on this thread.

[Viceroy]

Maybe in the custom hardware section the vendor should be required to demonstrate that they have registered their products with the FCC.  That would keep all of them off the boards.  I think that would leave us with, what, zero legitimate vendors?

[Bicknellski]

How about the hate from the vendors will that also be looked at as well as threats to persons from vendors?