[IPVO] [Multiple Exchanges] Neo & Bee - LMB Holdings

[BitCsByBit]

I got a feeling that this will turn out into a mess similar to the Labcoin IPO.
People were putting bids 30% higher than the IPO price just to make sure they get in. And that was happening before 10% IPO price bids were filled.

The fact people do that doesn't ensure a Labcoin-esque fiasco. That mess is a result of Labcoin's continued incompetence, something we haven't seen a shred of from N&B.

Not sure why people refer to the Labcoin IPO as a fiasco. Yes, they underestimated demand, but when this became apparent they placed the shares as fairly as possible (at the IPO price!). Everyone who placed a bid got shares (according to the amount of BTC they bid). I got fewer shares than I wanted but I still think it was fair given the circumstances.

This is worse IMO: it's an auction with a deadline of the IPO date and a minimum starting bid of .003. It should at least be advertised as such.

What if there is a rush of very late, very large bids on BTC-TC? Does this mean e.g. Havelock could potentially miss out on shares altogether? A bit of a pain for potential investors to have to monitor all three exchanges looking for something close to the advertised IPO price.

This looks messy.

Sorry I should have been clearer what I meant.

The reason why I said the Labcoin IPO was a mess was because they forgot to lock the shares after the IPO was approved. That's what caused the whole mess. I actually agree that they have done a great job having distributed shares the way they did.

Now we have a similar situation.

[limbaugh]

At the moment you are fixating on less than 1% of the current bids being over the ask price, and the IPVO isn't even close to oversubscribed yet. Please keep perspective here.

Good thing to keep in mind - there are 8,000,000 IPVO shares.

Considering the deceptive start you might be right. At no time was neobee planning to offer the IPO .003. Favor the private investor, what a crock.

[ThickAsThieves]

I don't really see a problem with auction style IPOs, the thing I am worried about is because of the dynamic share allocation, it is possible for the stock operator to create artificial supply shortages causing prices to rise significantly above .003 with the excuse that he needs to wait and see where the stock is most popular, before dumping thousands of shares onto the bids over .003. In this fashion, it would be quite profitable for the operator to just drip IPO shares into whatever bid is above .003 and then withhold the rest because of the excuse mentioned above.

This is not possible, nor will it happen. I will not disclose EXACTLY how the shares will be sold in any more detail than given already, but I can tell you I will do so in such a way as to mitigate undesirable factors.

I should also want to notify any jokers or book manipulators that once the IPVO starts, you should not place or leave up any bids that you do actually want to get filled.

While I trust that you will not partake in this practice as you have demonstrated significant competence in your other endeavors, I find it questionable that you judge such an activity as "not possible" given how you plan to roll out the stock.

1.) 8 million shares are to be dynamically sold with most of the shares going to "exchanges with the most volume."

2.) Operator decides initially to put 1 million into exchange A, 1 million into exchange B, 1 million into exchange C.

3.) 1 million shares quickly sells out on exchange A, price rises from .003 to maybe .0032-.0035 Operator sees that exchange A has the most volume, and places more shares for sale on that exchange. Because you have stated that the highest bids will be taken care of first auction style, then by your own rules you are forced to sell into the bids above .003 caused by the supply shortage. Such a shortage is required in order to dynamically allocate shares.

4.) Rinse and repeat step 3 whenever shares are sold out on any particular exchange, again given the auction style that you are proceeding with then plenty of extra profits will be reaped by selling into the bids that will be above .003 that occur when the stock is temporarily sold out.
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When I say it is not possible, I mean due to the details of how they will be sold in this specific IPVO, not that there not situations where it could be possible. We're simply going to take measures to prevent it, not cause it.

[Deprived]

I don't really see a problem with auction style IPOs, the thing I am worried about is because of the dynamic share allocation, it is possible for the stock operator to create artificial supply shortages causing prices to rise significantly above .003 with the excuse that he needs to wait and see where the stock is most popular, before dumping thousands of shares onto the bids over .003. In this fashion, it would be quite profitable for the operator to just drip IPO shares into whatever bid is above .003 and then withhold the rest because of the excuse mentioned above.

This is not possible, nor will it happen. I will not disclose EXACTLY how the shares will be sold in any more detail than given already, but I can tell you I will do so in such a way as to mitigate undesirable factors.

I should also want to notify any jokers or book manipulators that once the IPVO starts, you should not place or leave up any bids that you do actually want to get filled.

While I trust that you will not partake in this practice as you have demonstrated significant competence in your other endeavors, I find it questionable that you judge such an activity as "not possible" given how you plan to roll out the stock.

1.) 8 million shares are to be dynamically sold with most of the shares going to "exchanges with the most volume."

2.) Operator decides initially to put 1 million into exchange A, 1 million into exchange B, 1 million into exchange C.

3.) 1 million shares quickly sells out on exchange A, price rises from .003 to maybe .0032-.0035 Operator sees that exchange A has the most volume, and places more shares for sale on that exchange. Because you have stated that the highest bids will be taken care of first auction style, then by your own rules you are forced to sell into the bids above .003 caused by the supply shortage. Such a shortage is required in order to dynamically allocate shares.

4.) Rinse and repeat step 3 whenever shares are sold out on any particular exchange, again given the auction style that you are proceeding with then plenty of extra profits will be reaped by selling into the bids that will be above .003 that occur when the stock is temporarily sold out.
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I'd guess that he'll take a snapshot of each exchange's order book at the official launch time, calculate share distribution based on those snapshots then sell the indicated numbers into each in one order per exchange.  There's no real way to lock order books at an instant in time (even if you prevent placing new orders you can't stop old ones being cancelled - at least on BTC-TC where same BTC can back multiple orders).

Actual orders when the Asks are placed could vary from bids when the snapshot was taken due to late placement of orders/cancellations but there's not really anything he CAN do about that (unless exchange operators are willing - and able - to freeze order books until he places the sale order which only makes sense if ALL exchanges do it as it's contrary to the interests of an exchange and its customers for them to do it if other exchanges don't).

Best he can do is just try to make the delay between taking snapshots and placing the Ask as short as possible - but don't think it can be too near to immediate because of splitting based on value of orders rather than quantity (quantity is easy to get immediately, value means copy/pasting into a spreadsheet).

[VJain]

Hope I didn't miss the "posting date", but when will the asset be listed on BitFunder? Time of the IPO?

It is already listed: https://bitfunder.com/asset/NEOBEE

Thanks! I was looking in the market, didn't realize that assets could be "hidden".

[mgio]

I got a feeling that this will turn out into a mess similar to the Labcoin IPO.
People were putting bids 30% higher than the IPO price just to make sure they get in. And that was happening before 10% IPO price bids were filled.

The fact people do that doesn't ensure a Labcoin-esque fiasco. That mess is a result of Labcoin's continued incompetence, something we haven't seen a shred of from N&B.

Not sure why people refer to the Labcoin IPO as a fiasco. Yes, they underestimated demand, but when this became apparent they placed the shares as fairly as possible (at the IPO price!). Everyone who placed a bid got shares (according to the amount of BTC they bid). I got fewer shares than I wanted but I still think it was fair given the circumstances.

This is worse IMO: it's an auction with a deadline of the IPO date and a minimum starting bid of .003. It should at least be advertised as such.

What if there is a rush of very late, very large bids on BTC-TC? Does this mean e.g. Havelock could potentially miss out on shares altogether? A bit of a pain for potential investors to have to monitor all three exchanges looking for something close to the advertised IPO price.

This looks messy.

Sorry I should have been clearer what I meant.

The reason why I said the Labcoin IPO was a mess was because they forgot to lock the shares after the IPO was approved. That's what caused the whole mess. I actually agree that they have done a great job having distributed shares the way they did.

Now we have a similar situation.

It was also a huge mess because BTCT was bugged for the few hours before the IPO and wouldn't accept bitcoin deposits.

Many people asked for the IPO to be delayed because of this but they refused and lots missed out.

I tried to buy 250,000 shares and ended up with 0.

[lewicki]

ETA on elongated prospectus?

[N_S]

ETA on elongated prospectus?

Today or tomorrow is the latest I've heard.

[stenkross]

I don't get why people are overbidding the IPVO price.
They are trying to raise BTC24k (8,000,000 x 0.003) people.
I highly doubt it will sell in 2 seconds, even though it's distributed on three exchanges.

I also don't get why people are complaining about other people overbidding.
But it's a free market, if people believe there will be a shortage of shares, them let them pay extra, they are free to do what they want with their BTC.

[bobboooiie]

I don't get why people are overbidding the IPVO price.
They are trying to raise BTC24k (8,000,000 x 0.003) people.
I highly doubt it will sell in 2 seconds, even though it's distributed on three exchanges.

I also don't get why people are complaining about other people overbidding.
But it's a free market, if people believe there will be a shortage of shares, them let them pay extra, they are free to do what they want with their BTC.

If you dont get why some one is bidding on 1 share above IPO price something is trully wrong with you.

[pedrog]

I don't get why people are overbidding the IPVO price.
They are trying to raise BTC24k (8,000,000 x 0.003) people.
I highly doubt it will sell in 2 seconds, even though it's distributed on three exchanges.

I also don't get why people are complaining about other people overbidding.
But it's a free market, if people believe there will be a shortage of shares, them let them pay extra, they are free to do what they want with their BTC.

Yap, it's something like 3 million dollars, how quick can they go?

[cryptocyprus]

ETA on elongated prospectus?

Still working on the updated prospectus, it's 3am and the coffee is flowing!

It will be released before the pre-IPVO offering opens tomorrow/today

[Ukyo]

He has been spending a lot of time trying his best to be sure things are right.

As soon as everything is good to go the page should be made public and bids can start.

-Ukyo

[N_S]

God I feel like a kid in a candy store.

[bittymitty]

What is the reason for having to buy Xbonds at .0012 just so you can buy IPVO shares at .0025? Wouldn't this cost more than the .003 for the IPO shares?
.0012 + .0025 =  .0037
Am I missing something?

[Deprived]

What is the reason for having to buy Xbonds at .0012 just so you can buy IPVO shares at .0025? Wouldn't this cost more than the .003 for the IPO shares?
.0012 + .0025 =  .0037
Am I missing something?

You're missing that Xbonds were originally .001 so offered a discount.

At current prices you aren't paying for a discount on .003, you're buying to be sure you get shares at all (or betting that the open IPO ones sell at a price at which paying whatever Xbonds now go for is actually a discount).

[UnconfirmedTransaction]

What is the reason for having to buy Xbonds at .0012 just so you can buy IPVO shares at .0025? Wouldn't this cost more than the .003 for the IPO shares?
.0012 + .0025 =  .0037
Am I missing something?

1) Buy 1000 XBOND shares at 0.0012 = 1.2 BTC
2) Exchange 1000 XBOND shares (valued at 0.001 each) for 400 NEOBEE shares (valued at 0.0025 each)

You are paying 1.2 BTC for 1 BTC worth of XBOND shares and thus 1 BTC worth of NEOBEE shares, which is 400 @ 0.0025.  Valuing these 400 shares @ 0.003 = 1.2BTC which equals your original investment

[bittymitty]

So the 8,000,000 IPO shares are expected to be oversubscribed and will go for more than .003?

Even at the Xbond rate of.001 plus IPVO .0025 will be .0035

This still does not make any sense to me.  Surely I could just place a bid for .0030001 and this would be below the Xbond and IPVO price but above the .003 IPO?

Edit: Ok I didn't realise the btc is directly transferred into neo bee shares.  I though the Xbond just gave you the right to buy at .0025 per share.

[UnconfirmedTransaction]

So the 8,000,000 IPO shares are expected to be oversubscribed and will go for more than .003?

Even at the Xbond rate of.001 plus IPVO .0025 will be .0035

This still does not make any sense to me.  Surely I could just place a bid for .0030001 and this would be below the Xbond and IPVO price but above the .003 IPO?

If the price goes above 0.003 this helps the XBOND holders, not hurt them.  XBOND holders are guaranteed to pay 0.0025/share.  Buying XBONDS at 0.0012 and exchanging for NEOBEE guarantees that at the worst you will break even (paying 0.003/share essentially).

Your bid of 0.0030001 is more than the price of 0.003 you would be paying if you bought XBOND's at 0.0012 and exchanged for NEOBEE

[redmetal]

So the 8,000,000 IPO shares are expected to be oversubscribed and will go for more than .003?

Even at the Xbond rate of.001 plus IPVO .0025 will be .0035

This still does not make any sense to me.  Surely I could just place a bid for .0030001 and this would be below the Xbond and IPVO price but above the .003 IPO?

If the price goes above 0.003 this helps the XBOND holders, not hurt them.  XBOND holders are guaranteed to pay 0.0025/share.  Buying XBONDS at 0.0012 and exchanging for NEOBEE guarantees that at the worst you will break even (paying 0.003/share essentially).

Your bid of 0.0030001 is more than the price of 0.003 you would be paying if you bought XBOND's at 0.0012 and exchanged for NEOBEE

Your all forgetting one vital thing, there are currently only 500,000 shares on offer to xbond holders and 2 million xbond shares.
So out of the 2 million Xbond shares only 1.25 million(500k*5/2) can be traded for NEOBEE Pre-IPVO Offering.

You better hope you can get into this 62.5% braket if you buying Xbonds, This is why I sold all of my xbonds at ~0.0012. It's first come first serve, then you can watch the Xbonds you have paid 0.0012 for fall all the way back to 0.001.

I think ill take my chances at getting in at lower than 0.003 as 8mil shares is hard to fill quickly!