[ANN] KRAKEN.COM - Exchange with USD EUR GBP JPY CAD BTC LTC XRP NMC XDG STR ETH

[cyclops]

I see you increased volume from 5-25BTC... Probably advertising would help.

Yep, we'll get more aggressive about marketing soon, but there's some more things we'd like to have in place first. We actually had a big jump in our new user rate starting last week with the Fidor announcement and it's still holding steady. This hasn't been reflected in the volume yet, but I expect it will soon.  

Just curious, could you express this in numbers? How many new users?

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[imrer]

It's hard to penetrate a saturated market. I tried it with mining pool on which we've been working for 3 months. You have to try very hard to earn very small gain.

[Newar]

It's hard to penetrate a saturated market. I tried it with mining pool on which we've been working for 3 months. You have to try very hard to earn very small gain.

Contrary to a mining pool there is still a lot of room for improvement for exchanges regarding i.e. functionality and customer service.

[kakobrekla]

It's hard to penetrate a saturated market. I tried it with mining pool on which we've been working for 3 months. You have to try very hard to earn very small gain.

Contrary to a mining pool there is still a lot of room for improvement for exchanges regarding i.e. functionality and customer service.

That is just stupid.

Almost no-one is going to mine at an empty pool where the variance is huge and almost no-one is going to trade on an empty market cause of huge slippage/shallow depth.

Has nothing to do with the features.

[Newar]

It's hard to penetrate a saturated market. I tried it with mining pool on which we've been working for 3 months. You have to try very hard to earn very small gain.

Contrary to a mining pool there is still a lot of room for improvement for exchanges regarding i.e. functionality and customer service.

That is just stupid.

Almost no-one is going to mine at an empty pool where the variance is huge and almost no-one is going to trade on an empty market cause of huge slippage/shallow depth.

Has nothing to do with the features.

Notice I mentioned customer service too. How about all these people who are waiting for 4? 8? weeks for a withdrawal from MtGox?

Some of the functionality at Kraken made it interesting enough for me to at least give it a shot.

[imrer]

Just saying it's not about features. If you are first, all you need is barely functional website with clear idea. If it's interesting, traffic without advertising guaraneed. If you are second, you have to invest in advertising. If you are in saturated market you have to launch huge advertising campaing to have at least small percentage of the market. It's not impossible but it's hard work and one has to decide if it's worth it. It's all around. Altcoins -> litecoin -> boom, current altcoins -> nobody gives a shit.

So keep doing good work and maybe in few years your rival do a mistake and you take his place. (mtgox -> bitstamp - it took over 2 years, now it could be 4)

[Dargo]

Thanks for the input everyone. For some, volume/liquidity is necessary in an exchange and they wouldn't join one that doesn't have it no matter what other features it offered. But clearly not everyone feels this way because we've got lots of new users creating accounts and the momentum from the Fidor announcement last week continues. The raw numbers don't really matter because it's really volume that counts, not numbers of users. I only mention our momentum in new user rate because it will hopefully translate into increased volume soon. Those who need a certain volume level to join should wait till we get to that volume level. But joining now makes sense for those who like the features we offer and are willing to work with limit orders in a low volume trading environment until the volume picks up.

[Its About Sharing]

Thanks for the input everyone. For some, volume/liquidity is necessary in an exchange and they wouldn't join one that doesn't have it no matter what other features it offered. But clearly not everyone feels this way because we've got lots of new users creating accounts and the momentum from the Fidor announcement last week continues. The raw numbers don't really matter because it's really volume that counts, not numbers of users. I only mention our momentum in new user rate because it will hopefully translate into increased volume soon. Those who need a certain volume level to join should wait till we get to that volume level. But joining now makes sense for those who like the features we offer and are willing to work with limit orders in a low volume trading environment until the volume picks up.

Having a German bank is HUGE. With all of the banking problems going on right now, having a bank that is trustworthy will bring a lot of business your way imo.
The German site BTC.de has Fidor to but at this time won't allow Americans. Bitstamp has a Romanian bank (solid bank but still a worry going forward.)
I can imagine Kraken being a very popular exchange due to that, along with the features.

Question - Is your company also located in Europe (or just the U.S.)?

Thx,
IAS

[Dargo]

Thanks for the input everyone. For some, volume/liquidity is necessary in an exchange and they wouldn't join one that doesn't have it no matter what other features it offered. But clearly not everyone feels this way because we've got lots of new users creating accounts and the momentum from the Fidor announcement last week continues. The raw numbers don't really matter because it's really volume that counts, not numbers of users. I only mention our momentum in new user rate because it will hopefully translate into increased volume soon. Those who need a certain volume level to join should wait till we get to that volume level. But joining now makes sense for those who like the features we offer and are willing to work with limit orders in a low volume trading environment until the volume picks up.

Having a German bank is HUGE. With all of the banking problems going on right now, having a bank that is trustworthy will bring a lot of business your way imo.
The German site BTC.de has Fidor to but at this time won't allow Americans. Bitstamp has a Romanian bank (solid bank but still a worry going forward.)
I can imagine Kraken being a very popular exchange due to that, along with the features.

Question - Is your company also located in Europe (or just the U.S.)?

Thx,
IAS

We're based in San Francisco. Our COO (Michael, aka libcoin on this forum) lives in Europe - he's the slayer of Namecoin (fortunately, it looks like it will be reborn though).

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=310954.0

[Loozik]

Just saying it's not about features.

I disagree. It is about features.

In a market where you choose a product impulsively, like a cheap candy bar features might not play a role - you pick a product which has a nicer wrapping.

In a market when you choose the exchange (and risk more than a price of a candy bar) impulses do not play a significant role. You apply reason when choosing your exchange (you compare features and product robustness: the fees, execution speed, order types, jurisdiction risks, etc.).

It is about features in this market, not advertising.

If you are second, you have to invest in advertising.

1. Not even single dollar should be spent on an advertising of a startup, especially when 99% of its customer base is sitting on this forum! A startup should defend itself by the quality and innovation of its service in relation to competitors and develop organically (not through advertising). The only marketing Kraken should be doing right now is ''how to achieve our business goals while spending no single dollar on advertising'', e.g. creating the exchange's official thread outside the ''service announcement'' would help raise the brand and service awareness among the forum users, and no single dollar would be spent on this.

2. Investing in advertising MIGHT make only some (questionable) sense if Kraken wanted to look for non-Bitcoiners as their consumer base.

If you are in saturated market you have to launch huge advertising campaing to have at least small percentage of the market.

This statement MIGHT be true for fmcg, not for an exchange.

[cyclops]

Just saying it's not about features.

I disagree. It is about features.

In a market where you choose a product impulsively, like a cheap candy bar features might not play a role - you pick a product which has a nicer wrapping.

In a market when you choose the exchange (and risk more than a price of a candy bar) impulses do not play a significant role. You apply reason when choosing your exchange (you compare features and product robustness: the fees, execution speed, order types, jurisdiction risks, etc.).

It is about features in this market, not advertising.

If you are second, you have to invest in advertising.

1. Not even single dollar should be spent on an advertising of a startup, especially when 99% of its customer base is sitting on this forum! A startup should defend itself by the quality and innovation of its service in relation to competitors and develop organically (not through advertising). The only marketing Kraken should be doing right now is ''how to achieve our business goals while spending no single dollar on advertising'', e.g. creating the exchange's official thread outside the ''service announcement'' would help raise the brand and service awareness among the forum users, and no single dollar would be spent on this.

2. Investing in advertising MIGHT make only some (questionable) sense if Kraken wanted to look for non-Bitcoiners as their consumer base.

If you are in saturated market you have to launch huge advertising campaing to have at least small percentage of the market.

This statement MIGHT be true for fmcg, not for an exchange.

I agree with you, also bear in mind the verification process exchanges use.

[imrer]

It's natural to rely on analysis from the past. Your brain doesn't want to spend energy every time new product is launched. (new mining pool, new exchange, new casino...) Brain has created his connection and it's comfortable not to change them. Of cource you can apply logic and make some effort to change that but most people won't. It takes time to change.
That's the reason why it's harded to be second and succeed - you have to produce much more effort to change connection between neurons in people's brains - any kind of advertising (even this thread is one).

Of cource some people want to have all features in the world but it's now worth to improve it because gain from them doesn't cover expenses on additional features.

I'm not saing this project can't be successful. It sure can be but it take time.


I was describing that process - if you come with the same project later you can obtain smaller and smaller group of people (so I was talking about advertising as natural way to change this trend).

[Loozik]

Brain has created his connection and it's comfortable not to change them. [...] It takes time to change.

Yes, and Kraken needs time to grow. People need time to create new thinking pathways in their brains. I think - given the low quality of offering of the major exchanges - people are both ready and eager to create new connections. No financial effort should be put into advertising in this stage in my opinion.

Of cource some people want to have all features in the world but it's now worth to improve it because gain from them doesn't cover expenses on additional features.

There may come times when the current players, Kraken inclusive, will look for other types of clients, be them forex, stocks or futures traders. Maybe even Kraken will want to leverage their claim ''FOREX MEETS BITCOIN EXCHANGE'' one day and invest in advertising directed towards forex traders. If / when this happens the current bitcoin exchanges will need to add many many many features if they want to attract new clients. Tools available for traders at the current bitcoin exchanges are laughable at best (although Kraken seems to be best suited for new types of clients with their order types).

At the moment they should just create the official thread in Marketplace (not in Service announcement) and talk to clients. I would be interested to hear about their leverage trading offering. I would like to hear about their plans (if they have any) to improve charting on their website - their price history chart is a joke.

When they are technically ready with their features for forex, stocks and futures traders, they should start very very very cheap and smart marketing in carefully selected websites.

[imrer]

Yes I agree with you. Current users may have chosen their exchange but there is still plenty of fish in the ocean. So if I had an exchange, I woudn't spend energy on current users but try to find new adopters. Then you can bypass problem with choosing because early adopters won't probably move from their exchanges but you can outnumber them with new users.

[Loozik]

So if I had an exchange, I woudn't spend energy on current users but try to find new adopters.

1. So if I had an exchange, I would get my data feed connected to tradingview and bitcoinwisdom so that my potential clients have charting of a reasonable quality for free. You simply can't trade well without charts.

2. After doing this, I would expect to get a few hundred Bitcoiners as my clients first. Unfortunately Bitcoiners do not trade frequently so my income from fees would be low (Bitcoiners just buy and hold for a few weeks).

3. Then I would avail my data feed and trading API to TT, CQG, IQ and others, so that my potential new clients not only can use simple charting but also can use algos. I would even get some income through commercially availing my data feed.

4. By doing point 3 I would immediately get access to tens of thousands of traders around the globe (non-Bitcoiners) as my potential clients. By doing point 3 I would reduce the risk of heavy CAPEX on infrastructure in the future as well.

5. Then I would do easy and cheap marketing hocus pocus and would get as a result a few thousand new (frequently transacting) clients.

6. The new frequently transacting traders would give me the best liquidity and lowest spreads among other exchanges. With this I would attract clients from Gox, Stamp and other major exchanges.

7. After two years I would have the most profitable exchange on the planet. Next I would sell the exchange to an institutional investor and retire.

[imrer]

You take the time to summarize your ideas. Have you developed some project for bitcoin before?

[cyclops]

So if I had an exchange, I woudn't spend energy on current users but try to find new adopters.

1. So if I had an exchange, I would get my data feed connected to tradingview and bitcoinwisdom so that my potential clients have charting of a reasonable quality for free. You simply can't trade well without charts.

2. After doing this, I would expect to get a few hundred Bitcoiners as my clients first. Unfortunately Bitcoiners do not trade frequently so my income from fees would be low (Bitcoiners just buy and hold for a few weeks).

3. Then I would avail my data feed and trading API to TT, CQG, IQ and others, so that my potential new clients not only can use simple charting but also can use algos. I would even get some income through commercially availing my data feed.

4. By doing point 3 I would immediately get access to tens of thousands of traders around the globe (non-Bitcoiners) as my potential clients. By doing point 3 I would reduce the risk of heavy CAPEX on infrastructure in the future as well.

5. Then I would do easy and cheap marketing hocus pocus and would get as a result a few thousand new (frequently transacting) clients.

6. The new frequently transacting traders would give me the best liquidity and lowest spreads among other exchanges. With this I would attract clients from Gox, Stamp and other major exchanges.

7. After two years I would have the most profitable exchange on the planet. Next I would sell the exchange to an institutional investor and retire.

Go for it then

[Loozik]

Have you developed some project for bitcoin before?

Never. I am a newbie in Bitcoin 

[cyclops]

Can you please add eur->usd exchange?

[cyclops]

Why are BTC withdrawals disallowed?