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blackarrow (OP)
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September 22, 2013, 07:28:54 AM |
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I love the prices but 64gh/s (the only one I have bitcoins for) isn't going to make any ROI in feb 2014.  We do not think this is correct. We already replied to this here. We are making the most efficient ASIC possible and there's nowhere to go to from 28nm until 2015. We're offering all preorders a better deal that we'll have when we'll deliver the ASICs and we're guaranteeing that we'll offer the best price on the market.
If our ASIC will not be profitable, no ASIC will be and bitcoin mining will stop.
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Bicknellski
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September 22, 2013, 07:29:38 AM |
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Would love to drop some Minion chips into The Wasp!
Can we contact you to discuss our teams plans for boards using the Minion chip?
Please PM me or write us via the website contact form. I just looked over your thread and it looks that you're organizing a group buy. We try to stay away from these. Why we do not accept group buys?We have an experienced and dedicated customer support team that is able to provide a high quality service. They are qualified in handling and fixing all matters that might arise. Direct contact with our customers will also improve our products and customer service. We also believe that a random person from the internet that organizes a group buy is both not qualified to handle customer support, shipping matters including local customs and might also not be trustworthy to receive all your money, forward them to us and distribute the merchandise to you. If we would accept a group buy and anything goes wrong with it, although legally we won't be responsible for this, our customers will be unhappy. For these reasons we strictly prohibit group buys. Do we accept resellers?Yes. In order to save our customers shipping costs, we will accept a company that wishes to become our reseller and proves that they are experienced and trustworthy. We are business not a group buy... check the Project Development thread. We are not reselling or marking up chips in a group buy. We are developing a new miner system as an Open Source Hardware project. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=299255.0I will send out a message to you this week. Thanks for the quick response. |
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blackarrow (OP)
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September 22, 2013, 07:30:53 AM |
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In this case, we would be more than happy to do business with you. |
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r3animation
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September 22, 2013, 07:31:57 AM |
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I love the prices but 64gh/s (the only one I have bitcoins for) isn't going to make any ROI in feb 2014. We do not think this is correct. We already replied to this here. We are making the most efficient ASIC possible and there's nowhere to go to from 28nm until 2015. We're offering all preorders a better deal that we'll have when we'll deliver the ASICs and we're guaranteeing that we'll offer the best price on the market.
If our ASIC will not be profitable, no ASIC will be and bitcoin mining will stop.
I do hope you're right.  |
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topminingcontracts
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September 23, 2013, 06:35:52 AM |
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I am interested,
Any guarantee to be delivered during Feb-14?
TMC
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User705
Legendary
 Offline
Activity: 896
Merit: 1006
First 100% Liquid Stablecoin Backed by Gold
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September 23, 2013, 06:51:30 AM |
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If you are guaranteeing prices then what's the point of preorders? Basically the people preordering now are giving you a free loan because come february everyone gets the same price anyways. The only benefit of preordering now is if the buyer thinks that you won't have to lower prices and the current price will end up being less then market prices for similar devices at the time of shipping.
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Puppet
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 980
Merit: 1040
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September 23, 2013, 07:13:43 AM |
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Its not shocking their "artist impression" would use some 3rd party case.
While I have no experience with them myself, if you look around you will see that Black Arrow is a real company with a sterling reputation for bringing to market FPGA based miners. I dont see any reason to assume this would be a scam.
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papamoi
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September 23, 2013, 07:37:47 AM |
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hi
can you give more details about your fab ?
type of asic etc?
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xstr8guy
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September 23, 2013, 07:48:58 AM |
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If you are guaranteeing prices then what's the point of preorders? Basically the people preordering now are giving you a free loan because come february everyone gets the same price anyways. The only benefit of preordering now is if the buyer thinks that you won't have to lower prices and the current price will end up being less then market prices for similar devices at the time of shipping.
After a whole year of this ASIC preordering phenomenon/fiasco somehow you've managed to miss the point, lol. Preordering gives these small companies the needed capital to develop ASIC devices. In return, the "investor" is rewarded with a place in line when the device finally ships. Right or wrong, it's pretty much the only game in town. If you are waiting for the time when things ship the same day that you place your order, you may be waiting a very long time... unless you're content with ASICMiner Blades and USB Erupters. |
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monsters4r
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September 23, 2013, 08:13:35 AM |
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Another pre-order in stock product ? No thanks  |
--- APOM - Anti Pre-Order Movement ---
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RHA
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September 23, 2013, 08:19:10 AM |
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Black Arrow is currently selling the Minion as low as $1.99/Ghash
The Prospero (X-1) machine features a compact and stackable design, out of the box functionality, ethernet connectivity and friendly UI with a performance of 64 Ghash/second.
The Prospero (X-3) machine is designed for high performance mining, is fully rack-able and presents out of the box functionality, ethernet connectivity and friendly UI with a performance of 1300 Ghash/second.
Black Arrow Ltd are currently offering a 25% discount on all preorders paid in September and October. The sales price (after applying the advertised discount of 25%) for a Prospero X-1 is $239 and for Prospero X-3 is $3999.
Let's see. X-1: $239 / 64 GH/s = 3.73 Not $1.99 per GH/s. X-3: $3999 / 1344 GH/s = 2.97 (1344 is from the specification; X-3 should have 21 ASICs 64 GH/s each) Still not $1.99. Chips: $169 / 64 GH/s = 2.64 But there is a discount: Black Arrow Ltd will continue their customer reward scheme by offering the owners of the Lancelot mining devices from the previous line, the chance to upgrade to the Prospero line by returning their products in exchange for a further $300 discount [2].
[2] Lancelot machines credit can be used against up to 30% of the amount on pre-orders or against up to 50% of the amount on orders. This credit has no cash value.
$2.97 - 30% = 2.079 (2.0828 exactly, but quite close) $.64 - 30% = 1.85 However counting the discount is not fair. One would say BFL Single SC 60 GH/s was $699 because of FPGA upgrade. Where Black Arrow took the $1.99/GH/s from? |
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User705
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 896
Merit: 1006
First 100% Liquid Stablecoin Backed by Gold
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September 23, 2013, 08:29:14 AM |
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If you are guaranteeing prices then what's the point of preorders? Basically the people preordering now are giving you a free loan because come february everyone gets the same price anyways. The only benefit of preordering now is if the buyer thinks that you won't have to lower prices and the current price will end up being less then market prices for similar devices at the time of shipping.
After a whole year of this ASIC preordering phenomenon/fiasco somehow you've managed to miss the point, lol. Preordering gives these small companies the needed capital to develop ASIC devices. In return, the "investor" is rewarded with a place in line when the device finally ships. Right or wrong, it's pretty much the only game in town. If you are waiting for the time when things ship the same day that you place your order, you may be waiting a very long time... unless you're content with ASICMiner Blades and USB Erupters. After a whole year of this ASIC preordering phenomenon/fiasco somehow it's starting to feel like the companies will promise you anything and everything just to get your money. Even if it makes no sense. What's the point of them getting capital now if they guarantee to drop the prices to whatever the market price will be in the future and have to return most of that capital? I don't mind gambling but when the gamble is just some vague guarantee promise that isn't rooted in reality that's just one more hurdle to overcome besides the fact of sending non refundable to btc to some outfit in china and hoping for the best on a proposition that's many months away. |
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blackarrow (OP)
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September 23, 2013, 10:14:12 AM |
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If you are guaranteeing prices then what's the point of preorders? Basically the people preordering now are giving you a free loan because come february everyone gets the same price anyways. The only benefit of preordering now is if the buyer thinks that you won't have to lower prices and the current price will end up being less then market prices for similar devices at the time of shipping.
Customers who pre-order and pay now have 25% discount. Our promise is that we will ensure that customers who preorder now will always get a better deal than customers who order later. At the same time we promise that our prices will be below market price at the time we ship. This means that customers that preorder now will have considerable lower market prices by the time that we ship which puts them in advantage towards anybody else. Unless Bitcoin mining stops because it becomes unprofitable for everybody else in February, our customers WILL make profit. |
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blackarrow (OP)
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September 23, 2013, 10:17:50 AM |
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Where Black Arrow took the $1.99/GH/s from?
Orders of over 10000 pcs of Minion ASIC are $127.36/pcs $127.36 / 64 = $1.99 |
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blackarrow (OP)
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September 23, 2013, 10:21:51 AM |
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After a whole year of this ASIC preordering phenomenon/fiasco somehow it's starting to feel like the companies will promise you anything and everything just to get your money. Even if it makes no sense. What's the point of them getting capital now if they guarantee to drop the prices to whatever the market price will be in the future and have to return most of that capital? I don't mind gambling but when the gamble is just some vague guarantee promise that isn't rooted in reality that's just one more hurdle to overcome besides the fact of sending non refundable to btc to some outfit in china and hoping for the best on a proposition that's many months away.
Everybody until now sold you hardware that they knew that you're going to loose money because 1 month later they announced something faster at a better price. We are guaranteeing that this won't happen with us: If we drop the price you'll get even faster hardware, keeping you in front of everybody else. |
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GodfatherBond
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September 23, 2013, 10:24:44 AM |
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Do you have any more details available about hosting option?
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innovation
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September 23, 2013, 11:28:05 AM |
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Everybody does not like pre-order. We all like btc-miner.
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RHA
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September 23, 2013, 11:28:44 AM |
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Thank you, Black Arrow, for prompt and precise explanations. The answers increase confidence.
You have promised credit card payment option soon. Is a matter of days or months?
I know a person who decided to buy elsewhere just because of CC available there and not here.
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blackarrow (OP)
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September 23, 2013, 02:09:19 PM |
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You have promised credit card payment option soon. Is a matter of days or months?
I know a person who decided to buy elsewhere just because of CC available there and not here.
We have added 2 hours ago Paypal. Please let us know if you encounter any issues. We're looking into accepting credit cards directly as well, but it might take a while. Regards! |
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blackarrow (OP)
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September 23, 2013, 02:16:14 PM |
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Do you have any more details available about hosting option?
As we're trying to get this product out as soon as possible and in order not to skip the testing phase (normal with any reliable product), we offer free hosting 15 days while we can test customer's miner and the customer can receive the mined bitcoins. This will save a lot of time and money in case of any warranty claim as we can replace it immediately. We might offer paid hosting as well by the time when we complete our products. More details later. Regards! |
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