Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[topminingcontracts]

I insist with my question

"I am interested,

Any guarantee to be delivered during Feb-14?

TMC"

[blackarrow]

I insist with my question

"I am interested,

Any guarantee to be delivered during Feb-14?

TMC"

We are the only company from this forum (as far as I know) that has delivered the products on time. If we said that we'll deliver then, we will. What other kind of guarantees can be offered?

We could have "forced the truth" and say that we'll deliver in Oct-Nov, but we prefer to sell less and keep our reputation unharmed.

[miter_myles]

I insist with my question

"I am interested,

Any guarantee to be delivered during Feb-14?

TMC"

We are the only company from this forum (as far as I know) that has delivered the products on time. If we said that we'll deliver then, we will. What other kind of guarantees can be offered?

We could have "forced the truth" and say that we'll deliver in Oct-Nov, but we prefer to sell less and keep our reputation unharmed.

I think Enterpoint has been reliable in the past..  ? 

[blackarrow]

I think Enterpoint has been reliable in the past..  ? 

I'm not familiar with them but if they have then I stand corrected:

We are among the few companies...

[Tigggger]

We are the only company from this forum (as far as I know) that has delivered the products on time. If we said that we'll deliver then, we will. What other kind of guarantees can be offered?

We could have "forced the truth" and say that we'll deliver in Oct-Nov, but we prefer to sell less and keep our reputation unharmed.

You do have a great reputation, and I'd have no problem ordering products from you.

However in these turbulent times with huge hashrates coming on line, new vendors, ipo mining farms etc it's tricky to work out if anything you get in your hands today will be profitable let alone predict what the mining world will look like in 5 months time.

I wish you well in your venture, for me the days of pre-orders are over and I will re-evalutate future purchases when vendors have items in stock.

[michaelmclees]

We are the only company from this forum (as far as I know) that has delivered the products on time. If we said that we'll deliver then, we will. What other kind of guarantees can be offered?

We could have "forced the truth" and say that we'll deliver in Oct-Nov, but we prefer to sell less and keep our reputation unharmed.

You could offer an escrow service.  Pay with BTC and if any of your terms are not met, including the delivery date, all BTC are returned to the customer.

[topminingcontracts]

I insist with my question

"I am interested,

Any guarantee to be delivered during Feb-14?

TMC"

We are the only company from this forum (as far as I know) that has delivered the products on time. If we said that we'll deliver then, we will. What other kind of guarantees can be offered?

We could have "forced the truth" and say that we'll deliver in Oct-Nov, but we prefer to sell less and keep our reputation unharmed.

Can you inform us what products has your company delivered "on-time" before?

Thanks

TMC

[Xialla]

Lancelot:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=187549.0

[itod]

BlackArrow, can you give us some rough timetable for the project which wouldn't be a business secret, like:
- estimated date of tapeout
- estimated date of chips produced
- estimated date of first prototype
This will greatly lift the confidence of buyers since they can checkout if the project is on track.

Also, is the info of your chip foundry public yet?

[atmclikk]

Wow, these look really cool and I was about to pre-order, but then I saw they won't be available until February of 2014.  At that point, I'd imagine you'll be able to buy extremely discounted hashfast and cointerra stuff.  I'd be surprised if you got a lot of preorders for this offering. 

I don't get why the bitcoin asic vendor's don't follow the standard business model for the semi-conductor industry...  Why not focus on getting your chip out as soon as possible...  Forget about putting together miners.  Then setup a supply chain as an asic only provider...  Sell your asics to Burnin, the Cointamination people, Stumptown, etc. - all of the groups or companies out there ready, willing and waiting to put together miners for people.  If all of your focus was on getting the asic out there, instead of dealing with individual customers, sourcing cases, power supplies, and all of the components and fans etc. and assembly that go into a miner, would it be possible for you to get the asic off the production line sometime in December (which seems to be the date you need to be out by to stay competitive.  I just don't understand why all of you asic developers are also burdening yourself with actually building hardware too.  I would preorder 2k worth of chips if I had your word they would be in my hand by, say, mid-December.  If you shared your hardware specs with 3-5 specific hardware vendors, I'm sure they could get everything ready and probably have the hardware in our hands for when the chips arrived.  Hell - you could beat some of the biggest names out there for delivery if you just focused on getting the asic produced and shipped.

Theres a reason intel and amd don't build computers....  Think about it.  I'd love to see someone bring some competition to hashfast and cointerra in the form of an innovative business model.

I actually think that this is why BFL had their epic failure.  Pick one thing and do it well.  If BFL had just focused on getting their chips out to 3rd party hardware assemblers, they would be THE bitcoin hardware company.  Instead, they had to worry about assembly, cooling, power supplies, packaging, customer support, supply chain delays, etc.  Thats what killed their output.  And I bet if you look at their bottom line, all of the overhead for all of the extra components they had to source, buying power supplies, etc. along with the damage to their reputation as a company - focusing on selling their chips probably would have netted them a lot more profit in the long run.  As they would have been the only option for probably a year or so to buy high performance chips, they could have sold them for whatever they wanted to...

Just a thought.  Good luck, I respect your company very much.

[topminingcontracts]

Lancelot:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=187549.0

Thanks for the reference.

[vesperwillow]

As interesting as this model is...

Unless difficulty rises on a rate less than 1/3rd of what it does now.. (which.. haha.. wont happen) there's no way for your products to give customers a profit, as you claim. If you're "guaranteeing" this, then why not make it a money back guarantee? Make it simple too.. during those 15 days of burn-in/warranty-testing, if the product hasn't ROI'd then issue a refund, or offer them to buy it for less than the difference.

[User705]

If you are guaranteeing prices then what's the point of preorders?  Basically the people preordering now are giving you a free loan because come february everyone gets the same price anyways.  The only benefit of preordering now is if the buyer thinks that you won't have to lower prices and the current price will end up being less then market prices for similar devices at the time of shipping.

Customers who pre-order and pay now have 25% discount. Our promise is that we will ensure that customers who preorder now will always get a better deal than customers who order later.

At the same time we promise that our prices will be below market price at the time we ship.

This means that customers that preorder now will have considerable lower market prices by the time that we ship which puts them in advantage towards anybody else.

Unless Bitcoin mining stops because it becomes unprofitable for everybody else in February, our customers WILL make profit.

I'd like to make sure I understand what you are guaranteeing.  You are saying that if I preorder now I am guaranteed a price 25% below market price.  How will market price be defined? 

[blackarrow]

Picture of the X1 is an artist's impression. The original file was another Photoshop and not an actual still image. We have asked a graphic designer to help us with the images as we need to let our customers have an idea how the product will look like. This is how we intend the product to look like. As we are in production stage all we have now are artist's impression and soon rendered images with the proposal that was accepted and we go further with. However, also the rendered images will still be artist's impressions until we will have the machines in hand, out from the factory. Then and only then, we will be able to take still photos. We are afraid the process of creating a product follows this path.

[blackarrow]

I'd like to make sure I understand what you are guaranteeing.  You are saying that if I preorder now I am guaranteed a price 25% below market price.  How will market price be defined?  

Yes, you are guaranteed to get a price 25% below the market price ($/ghash) at the time of shipment.
And yes, we will keep our prices below every other company.

Bottom line is, whoever trusts us now, we promise that will help them to mine profitably after February as well. If you keep supporting other companies who have ripped you off until now, you'll barely get your ROI back.

[topminingcontracts]

Sorry, me again.

Why group buy is not permitted?

Another question.

Cointerra (assuming they deliver as promised) are offering $3 per GH "early January" in case that is true $2 per GH in Feb/14 will not ROI at all.

I like your approach and wish to do something with your company but just wish to analyze the situation.

Regards

TMC

[vesperwillow]

Why group buy is not permitted?

I'd imagine to lock in a certain price margin so if they do have to provide money/equipment "back" due to failure of ROI, then they won't be taking huge losses across large numbers. Totally wild guess though.

Cointerra (assuming they deliver as promised) are offering $3 per GH "early January" in case that is true $2 per GH in Feb/14 will not ROI at all.

This was sortof my point which went unanswered, according to basic math, there's no way for their units to provide profit at the 25% discount price in March (delivery date from Feb shipping date) unless the difficulty increase is less than 15% per rise (30ish total).

[blackarrow]

Sorry, me again.

Why group buy is not permitted?

Another question.

Cointerra (assuming they deliver as promised) are offering $3 per GH "early January" in case that is true $2 per GH in Feb/14 will not ROI at all.

I like your approach and wish to do something with your company but just wish to analyze the situation.

Regards

TMC

Based on your algorithm, assuming that Cointerra delivers in December, Cointerra's batch from January will not generate any revenue and Cointerra will never sell anything after February because Bitcoin mining will not be profitable at all.

The truth is that people will buy miners after February because in one way or the other mining will continue and hardware will be needed. We will be a major player from February when the market will be clearer because there's nowhere to go from 28nm.

[blackarrow]

Why group buy is not permitted?

Why we do not accept group buys?
We have an experienced and dedicated customer support team that is able to provide a high quality service. They are qualified in handling and fixing all matters that might arise. Direct contact with our customers will also improve our products and customer service.
We also believe that a random person from the internet that organizes a group buy is both not qualified to handle customer support, shipping matters including local customs and might also not be trustworthy to receive all your money, forward them to us and distribute the merchandise to you. If we would accept a group buy and anything goes wrong with it, although legally we won't be responsible for this, our customers will be unhappy.
For these reasons we strictly prohibit group buys.

Do we accept resellers?
Yes. In order to save our customers shipping costs, we will accept a company that wishes to become our reseller and proves that they are experienced and trustworthy.

[Japs2013]

When will there be more details available about the Lancelot trade-in option?