Will The Bitcoin Investment Trust affect the price?

[leemar]

Does anyone  understand what  they mean about them starting to trade in January?  If I bought now would I get today's price? 

Also what happens if…..

1.    It is over subscribed in a couple of weeks.
or
2.   No one wants any shares.

You can buy today. Your investment will be non-liquid until trading commences.

Thanks

[windjc]

more suckers who can't cash out with no liquidity.

The fund is for people who are happy holding for 1 to 5 years.  If they needed liquidity right now, there are lots of other things they could invest in.

This is about the SECOND MARKET GUYS themselves, not the people they are hoping to lure into buying their derivate. They bought more coins than the market can take in this condition and coming up with such a scheme is the only way out for them right now. Of course buying into that would be even more idiotic, but that doesn't stop them from trying.
The Winklevoss are trying the same exact thing, getting rid of their coins without really "selling them", doesn't seem to be working..

Your drivel is laughable.  You have no ideas what your talking about. The idea that they created this because they were overexposed is as ridiculous as any fringe libertarian that you might criticize.

[msc]

How I see it these funds expose one to the same risk of owning Bitcoins with the additional counter party risk and none of the advantages a cryptocurrency has. The only excuse I can come up with is that it is meant to act as a loophole for people managing other peoples money who can't buy Bitcoins.

The same price risk, yes, but less management and regulatory trouble, which is currently a good enough reason to do it.  If by "loophole" you mean "investment vehicle", then yes, exactly.  

[SgtSpike]

How I see it these funds expose one to the same risk of owning Bitcoins with the additional counter party risk and none of the advantages a cryptocurrency has. The only excuse I can come up with is that it is meant to act as a loophole for people managing other peoples money who can't buy Bitcoins. This strikes me as nothing more than a pump and dump scam. Once they sold a sufficient part of their derivate they could even crash the price on the exchanges for a hefty profit.
There are reasons to have Bitcoins besides that but this is entirely toxic shit. I hope they get slammed hard by the FEDs and I am quite positive that they will be.

It's made for people managing other people's money, yes, but it's also made for people who don't know how to securely store bitcoins.  As far as a pump and dump? Extremely doubtful. Toxic shit? Hardly...

[ElectricMucus]

How I see it these funds expose one to the same risk of owning Bitcoins with the additional counter party risk and none of the advantages a cryptocurrency has. The only excuse I can come up with is that it is meant to act as a loophole for people managing other peoples money who can't buy Bitcoins.

The same price risk, yes, but less management and regulatory trouble, which is currently a good enough reason to do it.  If by "loophole" you mean "investment vehicle", then yes, exactly.  

How so? Currently we don't even know if this is at all permitted, financial regulators are already up to Bitcoin, what do you think they'll do to a loophole?

It's made for people managing other people's money, yes, but it's also made for people who don't know how to securely store bitcoins.  As far as a pump and dump? Extremely doubtful. Toxic shit? Hardly...

Surely investment managers are too stupid to do that. 


When it comes down to it The Bitcoin Investment Trust exists because the perpetrators can't sell their Bitcoins with mtgox stalled. But what the crap, I mean go for it guys, perhaps you should bake your own fund too, but then you'd have to realize that in order to take your capital gains with you you'd have to cash out in one way or another.

[Odalv]

How I see it these funds expose one to the same risk of owning Bitcoins with the additional counter party risk and none of the advantages a cryptocurrency has. The only excuse I can come up with is that it is meant to act as a loophole for people managing other peoples money who can't buy Bitcoins.

The same price risk, yes, but less management and regulatory trouble, which is currently a good enough reason to do it.  If by "loophole" you mean "investment vehicle", then yes, exactly.  

How so? Currently we don't even know if this is at all permitted, financial regulators are already up to Bitcoin, what do you think they'll do to a loophole?

It's made for people managing other people's money, yes, but it's also made for people who don't know how to securely store bitcoins.  As far as a pump and dump? Extremely doubtful. Toxic shit? Hardly...

Surely investment managers are too stupid to do that. 


When it comes down to it The Bitcoin Investment Trust exists because the perpetrators can't sell their Bitcoins with mtgox stalled. But what the crap, I mean go for it guys, perhaps you should bake your own fund too, but then you'd have to realize that in order to take your capital gains with you you'd have to cash out in one way or another.

There are 2 groups.

 1. free people can do what is not disabled. (sell/buy bitcoins)
 2. gov can do only what is permitted. (do exactly what law says)

We know bitcoin is not disabled.

[ElectricMucus]

Brave words, but not much else.  
If they were relevant then why do you think the Winklevoss did file for a permission? Financial products are subject to regulations and procedures and I can't see how these second market guys have done that. If it were that easy the Winklevoss would probably have done it already.

[klee]

The price development story here is not the effect that purchasing for this fund will have, but the opening of more funds like this and other derivative instruments. The affect on price will happen on a much longer timeline than many of you are thinking.

perhaps.

but this announcement really should be looked at as the 2nd fund to announce this strategy next to Winklevii.

it's possible that "speculation" could result in a sooner ramp than you think.  especially since we've had this nice long consolidation period of 5-6 months now.  

charts are looking primed.

Chance Bitcoin price will skyrocket is very high and it's all because the reputation SecondMarket has and it's client base of rich customers.

Reuter's Felix Salmon is no a friend of Bitcoin. He mocked Bitcoin from day one, however, he makes some interesting points which give clear evidence on why SecondMarket will attract lots of cash for this Bitcoin trust.

http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2013/09/26/the-bitcoin-bug-bites-secondmarket/

The problem is that SecondMarket isn’t just a service for issuers and investors. It has also, of late, become a lead-generation engine — or, to put it another way, a mechanism for selling schmucks to wolves. SecondMarket has contact details for a very large number of accredited investors, many of whom trust the company and the reputational capital it has built up over the years. If you send enough of those investors investment pitches for diamond funds, or art funds, or space-based vaporware, the sillier among them will bite. And, eventually, regret doing so. SecondMarket’s investor list is a valuable thing, but the company isn’t behaving in the manner that you’d expect of an owner of something precious and valuable. Instead, it seems to be happy renting its list out to just about anybody.

I hate this guy

[Odalv]

Brave words, but not much else.  
If they were relevant then why do you think the Winklevoss did file for a permission? Financial products are subject to regulations and procedures and I can't see how these second market guys have done that. If it were that easy the Winklevoss would probably have done it already.

Winklevoss selected choice 2. (they think, they are gov)
SM selected 1. :-) (they feel they can buy/sell bitcoin)

[ElectricMucus]

Brave words, but not much else.  
If they were relevant then why do you think the Winklevoss did file for a permission? Financial products are subject to regulations and procedures and I can't see how these second market guys have done that. If it were that easy the Winklevoss would probably have done it already.

Winklevoss selected choice 2. (they think, they are gov)
SM selected 1. :-) (they feel they can buy/sell bitcoin)

You can't select. Selling a financial product without approval is illegal.

Oh and I will tease you guys when this shit blows up and laugh non-stop, just wait.

[prophetx]

i thought there was a difference, SM is only open to accredited investors

[Odalv]

Brave words, but not much else.  
If they were relevant then why do you think the Winklevoss did file for a permission? Financial products are subject to regulations and procedures and I can't see how these second market guys have done that. If it were that easy the Winklevoss would probably have done it already.

Winklevoss selected choice 2. (they think, they are gov)
SM selected 1. :-) (they feel they can buy/sell bitcoin)

You can't select. Selling a financial product without approval is illegal.

Oh and I will tease you guys when this shit blows up and laugh non-stop, just wait.

choice 1. is winning strategy

[ElectricMucus]

Brave words, but not much else.  
If they were relevant then why do you think the Winklevoss did file for a permission? Financial products are subject to regulations and procedures and I can't see how these second market guys have done that. If it were that easy the Winklevoss would probably have done it already.

Winklevoss selected choice 2. (they think, they are gov)
SM selected 1. :-) (they feel they can buy/sell bitcoin)

You can't select. Selling a financial product without approval is illegal.

Oh and I will tease you guys when this shit blows up and laugh non-stop, just wait.

choice 1. is winning strategy

Just like robbing a bank is. Except bank robbers have a higher success rate.

[ElectricMucus]

i thought there was a difference, SM is only open to accredited investors

They don't suddenly become accredited for an entirely different financial product. But Second Market are thinking they found a loophole and ran with it.

[Odalv]

Brave words, but not much else.  
If they were relevant then why do you think the Winklevoss did file for a permission? Financial products are subject to regulations and procedures and I can't see how these second market guys have done that. If it were that easy the Winklevoss would probably have done it already.

Winklevoss selected choice 2. (they think, they are gov)
SM selected 1. :-) (they feel they can buy/sell bitcoin)

You can't select. Selling a financial product without approval is illegal.

Oh and I will tease you guys when this shit blows up and laugh non-stop, just wait.

choice 1. is winning strategy

Just like robbing a bank is. Except bank robbers have a higher success rate.

No, I can do anything what is not forbidden. ... this is how new inventions works

[ElectricMucus]

No, I can do anything what is not forbidden. ... this is how new inventions works

That's what mtgox thought too btw, see where it got them.
It is forbidden and I already told you why.

[msc]

Second Market are thinking they found a loophole and ran with it.

There's no loophole.  If you're regulated properly, you can trade Bitcoin all you want.

[ElectricMucus]

Second Market are thinking they found a loophole and ran with it.

There's no loophole.  If you're regulated properly, you can trade Bitcoin all you want.

They are selling a financial product, not trading Bitcoins.

[prophetx]

Second Market are thinking they found a loophole and ran with it.

There's no loophole.  If you're regulated properly, you can trade Bitcoin all you want.

They are selling a financial product, not trading Bitcoins.

anyone can set up a "financial product" (i.e., venture capital LP fund) and solicit accredited investors... yea there are some rules but it's a lot easier to do that than what the winklevoss are doing... please cite a specific law or regulation that you think they are breaking

[ElectricMucus]

I'm no lawyer, and you aren't either. This is ridiculous.

My job here is done.