[HAVELOCK] PETAMINE - 1,150 TH/S HASH RATE (1GH/S per Unit)

[blizeH]

They seem to be in freefall right now... to the people (ie Puppet) who have been incredibly bearish on PETA, at what point, if any, do you see these becoming a good investment?

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[uppe]

I got a reply back from CryptX very quickly when I inquired about the 14:1 split and asking for an update, since they haven't posted one since the beginning of July.

Thanks for your mail. Perhaps you missed the fact that we converted the outstanding loan of 342,9 BTC to 4650 PetaMine units, so the loan did not have to be paid back.

We will provide an update soon.

Best,

CryptX

[fonsie]

I got a reply back from CryptX very quickly when I inquired about the 14:1 split and asking for an update, since they haven't posted one since the beginning of July.

Thanks for your mail. Perhaps you missed the fact that we converted the outstanding loan of 342,9 BTC to 4650 PetaMine units, so the loan did not have to be paid back.

We will provide an update soon.

Best,

CryptX

Well that email is quite the confidence boost... Let's buy some PETA shares... NOT

[stompysteve]

I got a reply back from CryptX very quickly when I inquired about the 14:1 split and asking for an update, since they haven't posted one since the beginning of July.

Thanks for your mail. Perhaps you missed the fact that we converted the outstanding loan of 342,9 BTC to 4650 PetaMine units, so the loan did not have to be paid back.

We will provide an update soon.

Best,

CryptX

Well that email is quite the confidence boost... Let's buy some PETA shares... NOT

All this was very clear a while ago when they announced it....
Hash rate is rising real quick now, this project is looking to be dead sooner then later

have fun day trading everyone

[Netwerked]

Well that email is quite the confidence boost... Let's buy some PETA shares... NOT

I used to own some PETA shares.  I bought into the original business model, where part of the mining income was reinvested for future equipment.  This made a lot of sense to me, since I was planning to keep this as a long-term investment.  Unfortunately, the difficulty rose relatively quickly, mining income was falling, the share price was falling, and the operating costs and loan still had to be paid.  If the loan had been paid off as scheduled, there would not be enough significant income to save up for future equipment.  Being able to purchase replacement equipment is required to sustain the mining operation.  As a result, I don't think shareholders will ever break even unless CRYPTX reveals a good new business plan.

In my own situation, my PETA investment had lost 50% of its value, and I didn't even buy the IPO!  I ran the numbers on July 16th to project the sum of all future dividends.  That number was lower than the value of my shares at the time (0.00262BTC), so I sold them.  I know that some shareholders hope that the PETA share price will rise again, but in the long-term, the value of owning the mining power of 1GH/s will continue to decrease as difficulty increases, especially now that the share price is directly tied to owning 1GH/s of mining power.  Also, the share price does not include operating costs, which are deducted from the daily dividend.

I looked into buying mining equipment, but that costs 2USD per GH, plus shipping, plus electricity, plus having to monitor equipment.  More importantly, it didn't look profitable ( https://tradeblock.com/mining/ ).  Someone mining at home is at a disadvantage to those who purchase equipment at volume discounts and operate it in a data center in an area with cheaper electricity.

I was about to give up on Bitcoin mining altogether, but then I found a cloud mining company that offered an excellent deal.  For 0.0029BTC a GH/s (currently 1.71USD), you could buy a 5 year mining contract with all expenses included.  In other words, you pay a flat upfront fee which includes all operating costs, and then you harness the full power of the mining equipment.  The weekly dividend that I receive is exactly what Bitcoin Wisdom projects.  https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty

Here is a comparison between PETA's dividends versus the cloud mining contract dividends for the period of July 27th-today, August 11th:
PETA: 0.00022992BTC
Mining Contract: 0.00042905BTC

If I controlled 2,000GH/s, my dividends for the period would be:
PETA: 0.46BTC
Mining Contract: 0.85BTC (that's 86% more)

Let's do a quick comparison of PETA vs the cloud mining company:
Buy 2,000 shares at 0.00188 on 7/27 = 3.76BTC (in reality, the shares were worth at least 0.00285 on that date)
Amount of dividends to expect through 8/10/15, assuming difficulty increases 13% every 2 weeks, and that PETA fees also decrease 13% every 2 weeks (unlikely): 3.46BTC
Loss from holding onto PETA shares: 0.3BTC (or more)

Buy 2,000GH/s cloud mining contract at 0.0029 on 7/27 = 5.8BTC
Amount of dividends to expect through 8/10/15, assuming difficulty increases 13% every 2 weeks: 6.44BTC
Profit from contract: 0.64BTC

[jjdub7]

You all realize it could have very well been a Ponzi scheme from the start, right?  They could've just been renting the mining equipment themselves the entire time, and since the ROI to date isn't close to breaking even, its plausible that they could've just been paying out the principal.

[IPO Magic]

New share price plateau approaching?

Kinda doubt it.  I have a feeling share price will be down in the 170000 range here in about 10 days or so.

I have a feeling you're right.

[nwfella]

They seem to be in freefall right now... to the people (ie Puppet) who have been incredibly bearish on PETA, at what point, if any, do you see these becoming a good investment?

In short under peta's current model the timeline for these becoming a good investment will probably happen around the 2nd of Nebruary (that's right, the 2nd February of Never!)

The fixed elec/hosting fee's of this operation coupled with the fact that there is no longer any hardware reinvestment fund to et all basically guarantees that this asset is on the fast-track to 0 for investors.  

CryptX and company sure do appreciate your investment though I'm sure.
*smacking myself in the head for still owning any of these

*IPO Magic: I wish I would've been wrong though :/

[oma5]

They seem to be in freefall right now... to the people (ie Puppet) who have been incredibly bearish on PETA, at what point, if any, do you see these becoming a good investment?

In short under peta's current model the timeline for these becoming a good investment will probably happen around the 2nd of Nebruary (that's right, the 2nd February of Never!)

The fixed elec/hosting fee's of this operation coupled with the fact that there is no longer any hardware reinvestment fund to et all basically guarantees that this asset is on the fast-track to 0 for investors.  

CryptX and company sure do appreciate your investment though I'm sure.
*smacking myself in the head for still owning any of these

*IPO Magic: I wish I would've been wrong though :/

There seems to be quite a correlation between the dividends and the daily Bitcoin price fluctuations. Probably the fixed costs (in fiat currency) are seriously eating into the dividends as the Bitcoin price drops. The swings are amplified as the difficulty hampers coin generation. We should see the dividends go up (less the difficulty increase) when the BTC price rises again - if at all! It is inevitable that mining will stop when the fixed costs = the bitcoins generated. It was a suicide vote to not invest in new mining equipment! We can only hope for Nebruary...

[nwfella]

They seem to be in freefall right now... to the people (ie Puppet) who have been incredibly bearish on PETA, at what point, if any, do you see these becoming a good investment?

In short under peta's current model the timeline for these becoming a good investment will probably happen around the 2nd of Nebruary (that's right, the 2nd February of Never!)

The fixed elec/hosting fee's of this operation coupled with the fact that there is no longer any hardware reinvestment fund to et all basically guarantees that this asset is on the fast-track to 0 for investors.  

CryptX and company sure do appreciate your investment though I'm sure.
*smacking myself in the head for still owning any of these

*IPO Magic: I wish I would've been wrong though :/

There seems to be quite a correlation between the dividends and the daily Bitcoin price fluctuations. Probably the fixed costs (in fiat currency) are seriously eating into the dividends as the Bitcoin price drops. The swings are amplified as the difficulty hampers coin generation. We should see the dividends go up (less the difficulty increase) when the BTC price rises again - if at all! It is inevitable that mining will stop when the fixed costs = the bitcoins generated. It was a suicide vote to not invest in new mining equipment! We can only hope for Nebruary...

I'll say there's a direct correlation.  0.00000924 satoshi's/share dividend today and just look at what happened to the price.  Imagine how hard it's going to tank after this next difficulty jump which is likely to be between 21-25% imho.

[jjdub7]

They seem to be in freefall right now... to the people (ie Puppet) who have been incredibly bearish on PETA, at what point, if any, do you see these becoming a good investment?

At the point where they pay the average mining bond equivalent of dividends at ASICminer's tube cost-per-GH/s price.   That price happens to be around the current B.MINE price - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.msg8329684#msg8329684, so my price floor on PETA is therefore going to be in the 60-87k satoshi range, assuming the difficulty levels out again after this bump and based on future difficulty movements this period and onward.

Here's a spreadsheet that linearizes the past 3 difficulty intervals (since they were relatively small) for PETA's output against the new ASICMINER tube and also against B.MINE: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZoapItfWpxHxWObZ0RxTHrU8Ae8ox28GmfUr2wD-QMA/edit?usp=sharing

Note the analysis factors in electrical costs for the AM tube running at 900 W for BTC at $515 with electricity costing $0.12 per kW-hr.  The linear regression model depreciates the dividends more aggressively (56-60k satoshi range), while the difficulty bump (estimated for next period at 17.7% as of now by bitcoinwisdom) shows for more realistic average payouts based on known difficulty forecasts (my high forecast for 87k satoshi).  You could use bitcoincharts' estimate of 9.765% for a more risky price forecast (i.e. possibly overpriced) if you're still bullish on PETA.  Keep in mind that the yields assume the current BTC-USD price and electrical cost ceteris paribus across the model.

TL;DR if you're not pricing against the newest technology, you'll consistently see your assets are performing poorly, and you'll often end up losing on the price depreciation as competing capital seeks substitutes.

DC - I own no shares of PETA and have no plans to enter into the market within the next 2 difficulty cycles outside of the price range I have specified above.

[currencydebt]

PETA Announcement:

Dear Unit Holders,
It has been a few weeks now since we converted the PetaMine to 1 GH per unit and 100% daily dividend payouts. We want to use this update to provide more transparency.
Daily dividend payouts are based on mining revenue of the last 24h (including altcoins like NMC/DVC/IXC). The differences in daily dividends have its origin in the variance in finding blocks for those last 24h.
The daily dividend consists of the mining revenue of the last 24h minus the hosting fee. The hosting fee totals 0.0049315$ per GH per day or 0.15$/GH per month to cover electricity, maintenance and repairs, hosting facility. Hosting costs are converted to BTC using the days BTC/USD ratio.
End June we decided, after passing a vote, to switch to p2pool because of the risk of ghash.io reaching 51% of the network. In the meantime this risk has disappeared with ghash.io having a marketshare of 27%. Besides that, the Bitfury systems are not compatible with p2pool and the variance on the daily payouts would be enormous.
Some people requested if additional hardware will be deployed. In the short term, we do not foresee to add additional hardware, as this would require the availability of new reinvestment funds or launching a new IPO. The results of the last vote was clear that people rather choose their own reinvestment level by purchasing additional 1GH/s units available at market value.
As always we will keep monitoring the Bitcoin ecosystem/mining environment closely.
Team CryptX

[fonsie]

OK, didn't wanna do this, but

I TOLD YOU SO

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2dmuer/peta_not_switching_to_p2pool_as_the_51_risk_has/

They don't even listen to what their unit holders voted for....

Everybody still having units, can throw them in the biggest garbage bin they can find.

[blizeH]

This is terrible news tbh, I bought almost purely because of the decision to move to P2P.

[_biO_]

The p2pool fail screams incompetence.

End June we decided, after passing a vote, to switch to p2pool because of the risk of ghash.io reaching 51% of the network.

Yes and 90% of shareholders voted in favor.

In the meantime this risk has disappeared with ghash.io having a marketshare of 27%.

Nothing has disappeared. Even 27% is way too much. ghash's current marketshare doesn't matter anyhow: the vote passed.

Besides that, the Bitfury systems are not compatible with p2pool

And there's a patch for that. They know this, but did not mention it. They are either too incompetent to patch their miners, or decided it's too much work and not worth their time.

and the variance on the daily payouts would be enormous.

Again, the vote has passed. This is completely irrelevant and was known fact.


They completely dropped the ball on the p2pool thing. This project would have been a good way for a lot of people to support the bitcoin infrastruture and there was quite some momentum shortly after announcing the possibility of a switch even before the vote. Big fail.

[stompysteve]

The p2pool fail screams incompetence.

End June we decided, after passing a vote, to switch to p2pool because of the risk of ghash.io reaching 51% of the network.

Yes and 90% of shareholders voted in favor.

In the meantime this risk has disappeared with ghash.io having a marketshare of 27%.

Nothing has disappeared. Even 27% is way too much. ghash's current marketshare doesn't matter anyhow: the vote passed.

Besides that, the Bitfury systems are not compatible with p2pool

And there's a patch for that. They know this, but did not mention it. They are either too incompetent to patch their miners, or decided it's too much work and not worth their time.

and the variance on the daily payouts would be enormous.

Again, the vote has passed. This is completely irrelevant and was known fact.


They completely dropped the ball on the p2pool thing. This project would have been a good way for a lot of people to support the bitcoin infrastruture and there was quite some momentum shortly after announcing the possibility of a switch even before the vote. Big fail.

its probably to much work and not worth the time, they are just gonna slowly let it die looking just looking at their post today

[jimmothy]

If their miners are being hosted by bitfury, what exactly does petamine do? Just collect hosting fees?

Is the p2pool patch provided by bitfury?

[currencydebt]

Is it possible that PETA used the p2ppool announcement to get a spike in share price so they could then unload the shares they had given to themselves to 'pay off the loan'?

[fonsie]

Is it possible that PETA used the p2ppool announcement to get a spike in share price so they could then unload the shares they had given to themselves to 'pay off the loan'?

ding ding ding, he gets it

[bigbeninlondon]

Is it possible that PETA used the p2ppool announcement to get a spike in share price so they could then unload the shares they had given to themselves to 'pay off the loan'?

That's what I was thinking.