[HAVELOCK] PETAMINE - 1,150 TH/S HASH RATE (1GH/S per Unit)

[nwfella]

dividend guess: 0.00163292
Beginning to see the light with regards to Korbman and Puppet's arguments regarding this asset sadly.  Trying to figure out where my acceptable exit-loss point is for this stock barring some seriously positive announcement from cryptx on friday. 

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[MonkeyBear68]

Thank you Puppet, Korbman and anyone else who answered the questions I posed. It seems that like the gold-rush in the 1800's, the sellers of the mining equipment benefit the most from the mining.

[altoidmintz]

...
What do you do with ASIC and the historic cases which refute this claim?

Which ones are those?

Asicminer had increasing returns to scale for a while. Its growth outpaced the network even with sub100% reinvestment. I believe it's not the only case either although I would have to look around a bit.

[Puppet]

THIS is where you lose me. In short, I don't believe this and would like to hear the case for it.

If a reinvestment strat was expected to ~0% ROI why would any rational actor ever do it?

Are all miners irrational or are your numbers off?

What do you do with ASIC and the historic cases which refute this claim?

ITs real simple. If you have an investment that yields less than 100%, even 99%, and you reinvest your earnings over and over in the same vehicle,  your ROI will eventually approach zero. The math isnt that hard really

There is no historic data to refute this claim, its pure and simple logic. And it does generally apply to all of bitcoin asic history. The one thing that prevents some people from seening that is the fact bitcoin appreciated >1000x in a few years. So even someone who preordered a BFL miner for 100BTC and ended up mining 20 BTC will often think he won, because he made a dollar denominated profit. And many have reinvested those 20 BTC in Monarchs and will end up mining 5 or less BTC. Reinvestment for the win.

[jimmothy]

THIS is where you lose me. In short, I don't believe this and would like to hear the case for it.

If a reinvestment strat was expected to ~0% ROI why would any rational actor ever do it?

Are all miners irrational or are your numbers off?

What do you do with ASIC and the historic cases which refute this claim?

ITs real simple. If you have an investment that yields less than 100%, even 99%, and you reinvest your earnings over and over in the same vehicle,  your ROI will eventually approach zero. The math isnt that hard really

There is no historic data to refute this claim, its pure and simple logic. And it does generally apply to all of bitcoin asic history. The one thing that prevents some people from seening that is the fact bitcoin appreciated >1000x in a few years. So even someone who preordered a BFL miner for 100BTC and ended up mining 20 BTC will often think he won, because he made a dollar denominated profit. And many have reinvested those 20 BTC in Monarchs and will end up mining 5 or less BTC. Reinvestment for the win.

Are you trying to say mining is not profitable?

You know that just about anyone who started mining before march has reached a positive ROI in both btc and usd right?

[IPO Magic]

...
What do you do with ASIC and the historic cases which refute this claim?

Which ones are those?

Asicminer had increasing returns to scale for a while. Its growth outpaced the network even with sub100% reinvestment. I believe it's not the only case either although I would have to look around a bit.

ASICMINER was selling overpriced mining gear to ignorant/starry-eyed miners.  It was mining with self-made chips and miners, and the competition at the time of greater-than-network-growth was nominal.

Yes, even now you can [theoretically] grow an operation faster than the network growth, up to [but not including] the point when you contribute 100% of the total hash rate.  At that point, no amount of money will allow you to grow faster then the network.
Hope this helps.

@jimmothy re. "anyone who started mining before march has reached a positive ROI in both btc and usd":

wat

[Puppet]

You know that just about anyone who started mining before march has reached a positive ROI in both btc and usd right?

Yeah like all Bitmine customers, all Hashfast customers, all BFL customers, all AMT customers, all BlackArrow customers, all Cointerra customers,.. VMC, ... etc.  even KnC customers seem to forget their batch 1 preorder costed like 70 BTC. There may have been some miners, like bitmain customers  maybe some Bitfury's, but those are exceptions and they made tiny profits (if they have cheap electricity). The *vast* majority of asic miners paying retail prices have made a BTC denominated loss throughout all of bitcoin asic history. If you're going to argue that point, dont bother, enjoy your fantasy world.

[jimmothy]

You know that just about anyone who started mining before march has reached a positive ROI in both btc and usd right?

Yeah like all Bitmine customers, all Hashfast customers, all BFL customers, all AMT customers, all BlackArrow customers, all Cointerra customers,.. AMT, ... etc.  even KnC customers seem to forget their batch 1 preorder costed like 70 BTC. There may have been some miners, like bitmain customers  maybe some Bitfury's, but those are exceptions and they made tiny profits (if they have cheap electricity). The *vast* majority of asic miners paying retail prices have made a BTC denominated loss throughout all of bitcoin asic history. If you're going to argue that point, dont bother, enjoy your fantasy world.

I meant to say anyone who bought the cheapest in-stock hardware before march has achieved a positive ROI.

[Puppet]

Sure Jimmy, whatever you say. In your world even cryptx achieved 100% ROI.

[NotLambchop]

@Puppet:  La La Land might not be real, but Walla Walla Washington is!

Walla Walla hey!

[jimmothy]

Peta might have no chance to ROI with their overpriced hardware and overpriced hosting fees but that doesn't mean no miners can profit.

[altoidmintz]

...
What do you do with ASIC and the historic cases which refute this claim?

Which ones are those?

Asicminer had increasing returns to scale for a while. Its growth outpaced the network even with sub100% reinvestment. I believe it's not the only case either although I would have to look around a bit.

ASICMINER was selling overpriced mining gear to ignorant/starry-eyed miners.  It was mining with self-made chips and miners, and the competition at the time of greater-than-network-growth was nominal.

Got it. So basically we need to start building our own chips.

Also, could we not play up the marketing due to our p2p pool integration? We could argue a value added not perceived merely through divs.

[Usman056]

...
What do you do with ASIC and the historic cases which refute this claim?

Which ones are those?

Asicminer had increasing returns to scale for a while. Its growth outpaced the network even with sub100% reinvestment. I believe it's not the only case either although I would have to look around a bit.

ASICMINER was selling overpriced mining gear to ignorant/starry-eyed miners.  It was mining with self-made chips and miners, and the competition at the time of greater-than-network-growth was nominal.

Got it. So basically we need to start building our own chips.

Also, could we not play up the marketing due to our p2p pool integration? We could argue a value added not perceived merely through divs.

What marketing? i haven't seen any ads anywhere... has anyone else?

[kenmomotaro]

Someday Petamine will need to move their data center to somewhere with cheap electricity and reduce hosting fee further below.
If they don't, project Petamine won't last long. Cheap electricity is a key factor but somehow CryptX never considered this.
Maybe they don't want to live abroad.  

[spartan82]

Lol honestly at the start I used to come in here seeing puppets posts thinking what a tool. He's starts throwing numbers out there, I gtfo at and average of 0.074. Happy with that since I bought at 0.05. But honestly looking at these posts puppet you are a fucking machine lol the amount of effort you put into the research is impeccable and commendable in itself to think this bloke must have the biggest vendetta against cryptx god knows why. It's like u woke up one morning popped up and said, I'm going to destroy this security. And you really have succeeded. You're an animal lol

[Puppet]

It's like u woke up one morning popped up and said, I'm going to destroy this security. And you really have succeeded. You're an animal lol

I can not take credit for that. No more than I can take credit for Pirate's ponzi collapse or usagi's implosion. Difficulty and delusion is all thats "destroying" peta. Most I can take credit for is opening some eyes. But judging by a share price that still hovers at least 3-5x above any reasonable return expectation, Im not even very successful  in that regard. But where I fail, have no doubt the network itself will succeed. Cant imagine panic not setting in once the upcoming difficulty adjustment hits the dividends in  ~2 weeks

[NotLambchop]

...
In this same thread Cryptx confirms that their solar plant produces 1% of what Peta needs.
...

Yeah, but those are bespoke, boutique KWh!  Much better for the miners, causing them to hash green, eco-friendly bitcoins.  Just as you'd expect to pay a premium for the organic eggs laid by free-range chickens fluent in five languages, you pay a premium for these.
Providing just one percent of the power doesn't mean receiving just one percent of the total energy cost.

The solar farm is currently running at a loss.  A new IPO has been scheduled, its proceeds earmarked for purchasing moar solar cells.
If this IPO fails, Cryptx will generously lend you the money for the new solar cells, and allow you to pay him back in installments.*

*Pure speculation, but sure sounds right

[EdoBcn]

Guys, of course you are right. Let's not go in circles here.

Cryptx does this for profit.

His profit comes from numerous places:

• Power (his solar mine)
• Datacenter costs (is he using it for other things?)
• Boards/custom production
• Special deals with producers
• 

However, he doesn't make profit on:

• BTC price variance
• Stock price moving up and down (at least, not that we are aware of. He claims he doesn't hold shares. Maybe some friends&family)
• Interests on holding our funds (like banks do)
• All fees (all to Havelock)

Long term, he has some miners that are paid for and are too costly to maintain powered on. Even for him. He can sell the hardware, but it goes into the reinvestment fund. So, one far day in the future, he may just call it a day and turn off everything, sell remaining hardware, refund what's left in percentage to each shareholder and start something different.

The whole messed-up story here is that, forget the solar plant, forget even the datacenter, if me and Puppet were friends since kindergarden and had few spare millions to invest in a mining farm, why on earth we would go for private shareholders?

*Disclosure for Puppet: I don't know you, it's just a stupid example, hope you don't get mad at me.

The example is clear. We can build the gold egg factory but we ask for money outside? Either we don't belive in the success of this, or we know it will not succeed, or we are simply dumb.
As I'm giving Cryptx team the benefit of the doubt, assuming they are far from being dumb, either they have a reasonable explanation for this or they are acting with the only purpose of getting quick money at shareholders expenses.

And now that they don't even post here anymore... I'm leaning to the second option.

[rdyoung]

Guys, of course you are right. Let's not go in circles here.

Cryptx does this for profit.

His profit comes from numerous places:

• Power (his solar mine)
• Datacenter costs (is he using it for other things?)
• Boards/custom production
• Special deals with producers
• 

However, he doesn't make profit on:

• BTC price variance
• Stock price moving up and down (at least, not that we are aware of. He claims he doesn't hold shares. Maybe some friends&family)
• Interests on holding our funds (like banks do)
• All fees (all to Havelock)

Long term, he has some miners that are paid for and are too costly to maintain powered on. Even for him. He can sell the hardware, but it goes into the reinvestment fund. So, one far day in the future, he may just call it a day and turn off everything, sell remaining hardware, refund what's left in percentage to each shareholder and start something different.

The whole messed-up story here is that, forget the solar plant, forget even the datacenter, if me and Puppet were friends since kindergarden and had few spare millions to invest in a mining farm, why on earth we would go for private shareholders?

*Disclosure for Puppet: I don't know you, it's just a stupid example, hope you don't get mad at me.

The example is clear. We can build the gold egg factory but we ask for money outside? Either we don't belive in the success of this, or we know it will not succeed, or we are simply dumb.
As I'm giving Cryptx team the benefit of the doubt, assuming they are far from being dumb, either they have a reasonable explanation for this or they are acting with the only purpose of getting quick money at shareholders expenses.

And now that they don't even post here anymore... I'm leaning to the second option.

No businessman worth his golden parachute invests his own money, you always use others, either via a loan from a lender or investors.
The days of organic business growth are dead and gone, the goal for decades has been to expand at a ridiculous pace irregardless of the chances and severity of failing.

[Usman056]

Now we know where he is..

CryptX sells A2 Innosilicon 90 Scrypt Miners. IN STOCK
90Mhs Scrypt Miner  7500$ + shipping worldwide

Payments possible in LTC or BTC
Please leave a message here or email to info@cryptx.com
This item will ship within 1 business day after payment clears.

Contents:
1 A2 Innosilicon unit of 90Mh/s ASIC miner, can vary by a +/- 10%
Single standard form factor 4U server chassis
1 Raspberry Pi computer
1000watt Platinum 80-Plus rated enterprise class power supply unit (PSU)
Only draws 10-12watts per chip (500-700watts total)

Specification:
48 State of the art A2 28nm ASIC chips
High Quality Bench Tested PCB
4U Rack mount compatible server chassis (rackmount rails extra)
Internal 1000 watt PSU's (draws about 500-700watts depending on hashing rate and overclocking configuration)
Latest energy efficient Power Supply and ASIC chips to give you the highest ROI
USB Port to connect to Raspberry Pi, PC or MAC.
Fitted with high performance fans to keep the processors cool.
Patent Pending thermal cooling system