Bitcoin Forum
December 16, 2017, 03:53:38 PM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.15.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 [19] 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Computer Scientists Prove God Exists  (Read 24745 times)
BitChick
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1120


View Profile
November 13, 2013, 12:04:02 AM
 #361

Of course God exists, you don't need scientist to prove it or anyone else,
you just need to look around you and see that nothing happens without
reason and there are no coincidences.

Everything happens for a reason. That reason may just be something other than god. For instance, if you took a whole bunch of magnet bars with N and S at opposite ends, tossed them into the air, and let them fall freely over a large space, you'll see them orient themselves into large lines and curves, as the S's attract to the N's. Were the reason they oriented themselves in such a way god's doing? Or was it basic physics?

But why would they orient themselves into lines and curves?  Who made the laws of physics?  Did the laws of physics just happen by random chance too?  What you call "basic physics" is not all that basic is it?


1BitcHiCK1iRa6YVY6qDqC6M594RBYLNPo
1513439618
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513439618

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513439618
Reply with quote  #2

1513439618
Report to moderator
1513439618
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513439618

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513439618
Reply with quote  #2

1513439618
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1513439618
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513439618

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513439618
Reply with quote  #2

1513439618
Report to moderator
1513439618
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513439618

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513439618
Reply with quote  #2

1513439618
Report to moderator
1513439618
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513439618

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513439618
Reply with quote  #2

1513439618
Report to moderator
BitChick
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1120


View Profile
November 13, 2013, 12:04:42 AM
 #362

If you can agree nothing is random, surely you can see how the world is manifested as a result of intelligent beings.

Dank.  I wholeheartedly agree with you for once.  Grin

1BitcHiCK1iRa6YVY6qDqC6M594RBYLNPo
yogi
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 947


Hamster ate my bitcoin


View Profile
November 13, 2013, 12:09:48 AM
 #363

If you can agree nothing is random supernatural, surely you can see how the world is manifested as a result of intelligent beings natural processes.

FTFY

dank
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1134


You cannot kill love


View Profile
November 13, 2013, 12:31:24 AM
 #364

Ah, but I have already confirmed the existence of the supernatural.

And I know nothing is random.  I know my actions have consequences that ripple throughout the world.  If you look from the perspective of the water, not the ripple, you will see the impact you truly make.

13oZY8zzWEp48XZpEEi8zSkYJF5AWR2vXc DMhYmNzMnU2Avgu7sF3GSDybHumj8XH8V8
Currently seeking plot of land to host 1,000,000+ person music festival
Dankmusic - Hear the impossible, feel the impossible, be the impossible dankmusic.org dankcoin.org
the joint
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1806



View Profile
November 13, 2013, 01:50:02 AM
 #365

If you can agree nothing is random supernatural, surely you can see how the world is manifested as a result of intelligent beings natural processes.

FTFY

And natural processes are the result of...?

yogi
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 947


Hamster ate my bitcoin


View Profile
November 13, 2013, 01:55:05 AM
 #366

If you can agree nothing is random supernatural, surely you can see how the world is manifested as a result of intelligent beings natural processes.

FTFY

And natural processes are the result of...?

The flying spaghetti monster  Grin

the joint
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1806



View Profile
November 13, 2013, 02:10:40 AM
 #367

If you can agree nothing is random supernatural, surely you can see how the world is manifested as a result of intelligent beings natural processes.

FTFY

And natural processes are the result of...?

The flying spaghetti monster  Grin

The go-to response for someone without a good answer.

yogi
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 947


Hamster ate my bitcoin


View Profile
November 13, 2013, 02:27:55 AM
 #368

If you can agree nothing is random supernatural, surely you can see how the world is manifested as a result of intelligent beings natural processes.

FTFY

And natural processes are the result of...?

The flying spaghetti monster  Grin

The go-to response for someone without a good answer.

The problem of infinite regression is one that exists in both the natural and supernatural view of the universe. I could say that natural processes are driven by the fundamental force of the universe. You could then come back and say "And fundamental forces are the result of...?", ... and so on... On the other hand I could say "And the flying spaghetti monster is the result of...?" ... and so on ...

There is always a limit to our knowledge, at some point we have to say 'I don't know'. But, just because we don't know something, it doesn't mean that God did it and to assume so is illogical.

dank
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1134


You cannot kill love


View Profile
November 13, 2013, 02:49:08 AM
 #369

If you can agree nothing is random supernatural, surely you can see how the world is manifested as a result of intelligent beings natural processes.

FTFY

And natural processes are the result of...?

The flying spaghetti monster  Grin
So, god.

13oZY8zzWEp48XZpEEi8zSkYJF5AWR2vXc DMhYmNzMnU2Avgu7sF3GSDybHumj8XH8V8
Currently seeking plot of land to host 1,000,000+ person music festival
Dankmusic - Hear the impossible, feel the impossible, be the impossible dankmusic.org dankcoin.org
hawkeye
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 364



View Profile
November 13, 2013, 03:02:36 AM
 #370

If you can agree nothing is random supernatural, surely you can see how the world is manifested as a result of intelligent beings natural processes.

FTFY

And natural processes are the result of...?

The flying spaghetti monster  Grin

The go-to response for someone without a good answer.

I'm guessing you missed the irony of your response.
the joint
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1806



View Profile
November 13, 2013, 04:09:24 AM
 #371

If you can agree nothing is random supernatural, surely you can see how the world is manifested as a result of intelligent beings natural processes.

FTFY

And natural processes are the result of...?

The flying spaghetti monster  Grin

The go-to response for someone without a good answer.

The problem of infinite regression is one that exists in both the natural and supernatural view of the universe. I could say that natural processes are driven by the fundamental force of the universe. You could then come back and say "And fundamental forces are the result of...?", ... and so on... On the other hand I could say "And the flying spaghetti monster is the result of...?" ... and so on ...

There is always a limit to our knowledge, at some point we have to say 'I don't know'. But, just because we don't know something, it doesn't mean that God did it and to assume so is illogical.

No, you don't have to say you don't know.  Knowing through reason is fully contained within the realm of logic.  Logic is self-contained.  It reinforces itself.  Anything outside of logic isn't an "I don't know."  It's more like a "don't even bother going there because it's pointless to try."  You know that tree that falls in the forest where nobody's around to perceive it?  I don't either.

As long as you adhere to some essential rules you can never be wrong.  The reason you can never be wrong is because logic says you can never be wrong, so long as you're logical.

Because logic reinforces itself, 'infinite regressions' and other paradoxes must be self-resolving, for if they weren't, logic 1) is an incomplete method for forming true statements and therefore can't be trusted, and/or 2) is not self-contained, meaning there is some higher-order law (an illogical one, at that) at play capable of making sense of paradoxes, and therefore it can't be trusted.

Referencing "supernatural," I think we could both agree that this generally (and literally) means "above or superior to natural law."  This could imply a few things.  It could imply the possibility that something could directly manipulate or influence natural law and cause the law itself to change.  It could also imply the possibility that something could manipulate the content that the law governs without changing the law itself.  Or it could imply the possibility of both.  After all, were talking about "natural processes" here, and "natural processes" describes a relationship between both physically real content and abstractly real law.

Now, is supernatural possible?  Well, first of all, supernatural does NOT necessarily mean illogical.  It's quite plausible to imagine, for example, that for no apparent reason you could raise your arms up and start floating up into the air.  All I'm asserting is that it's possible to imagine.  And, given that thoughts are logical constructs, I'm also asserting that it's possible to imagine something quite "supernatural" (defying gravity).  This would be a concept representing a supernatural manipulation of content without manipulating the law itself.  The Jesus miracles are also examples of this.

Now, what about the other case?  Is is possible to imagine something supernatural affecting the law itself?  The whole concept of a god that is "outside of reality" but is real enough to "be inside of reality when he wants to" goes nowhere fast.  If something is real enough to be considered real, it would always be inside of reality and never outside of it.  A much more interesting option is a law that intrinsically changes itself.  If a law changes itself, then something interesting happens -- both the law and the content governed by that law are changed dynamically in tandem.

So, yes, I think supernatural is very possible, logically.  All you need is a Universe with an informational feedback loop.

Rassah
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1680


Director of Bitcoin100


View Profile
November 13, 2013, 06:09:33 AM
 #372

Laws governing physical reality are abstract. Another word for 'abstract' is 'mental' to the extent that you cannot assert something abstract to exist without acknowledging that it exists due to mind.

In fact, the abstract metrics that we use give definition to our conception of physical reality.  For example, if we use a metric that you can divide infinitesimally, then we might say that space is continuous.  But, if we suddenly use a metric that cannot be divided infinitesimally, then space becomes discontinuous.

Sorry, I still have no idea what you are talking about XD

Quote
Because logic reinforces itself, 'infinite regressions' and other paradoxes must be self-resolving, for if they weren't, logic 1) is an incomplete method for forming true statements and therefore can't be trusted, and/or 2) is not self-contained, meaning there is some higher-order law (an illogical one, at that) at play capable of making sense of paradoxes, and therefore it can't be trusted.

A person who gives a logical "I know! It's ..." answer to the question "What's behind that horizon?" will come out rather foolish as soon as the person who said "I don't know" walks over to check it out. You have some strange concepts of logic...

Rassah
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1680


Director of Bitcoin100


View Profile
November 13, 2013, 06:10:28 AM
 #373


Quote
Everything happens for a reason. That reason may just be something other than god. For instance, if you took a whole bunch of magnet bars with N and S at opposite ends, tossed them into the air, and let them fall freely over a large space, you'll see them orient themselves into large lines and curves, as the S's attract to the N's. Were the reason they oriented themselves in such a way god's doing? Or was it basic physics?
You are missing my point. God is the creator of everything on earth, so he created
all the physical laws that we are  aware at the present time and that's your reason.


So if god created physical laws, then who created god?

But why would they orient themselves into lines and curves?  Who made the laws of physics?  Did the laws of physics just happen by random chance too?  What you call "basic physics" is not all that basic is it?

Same question. If god always existed, why couldn't physical laws always exist, too?

dank
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1134


You cannot kill love


View Profile
November 13, 2013, 06:14:01 AM
 #374

The great eternal always has and always will.

13oZY8zzWEp48XZpEEi8zSkYJF5AWR2vXc DMhYmNzMnU2Avgu7sF3GSDybHumj8XH8V8
Currently seeking plot of land to host 1,000,000+ person music festival
Dankmusic - Hear the impossible, feel the impossible, be the impossible dankmusic.org dankcoin.org
ajax3592
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 210

Crypto News & Tutorials - Coinramble.com


View Profile
November 13, 2013, 04:57:30 PM
 #375

The great eternal always has and always will.
Actually God is universal energy that we can feel >>That's the reason they say God is everywhere. It's the universal energy.
We are made from star dust, so that energy resides in us >>The reason they say God resides inside us

Crypto news/tutorials >>CoinRamble<<                            >>Netcodepool<<                >>My graphics<<
the joint
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1806



View Profile
November 13, 2013, 05:12:57 PM
 #376

Laws governing physical reality are abstract. Another word for 'abstract' is 'mental' to the extent that you cannot assert something abstract to exist without acknowledging that it exists due to mind.

In fact, the abstract metrics that we use give definition to our conception of physical reality.  For example, if we use a metric that you can divide infinitesimally, then we might say that space is continuous.  But, if we suddenly use a metric that cannot be divided infinitesimally, then space becomes discontinuous.

Sorry, I still have no idea what you are talking about XD

Quote
Because logic reinforces itself, 'infinite regressions' and other paradoxes must be self-resolving, for if they weren't, logic 1) is an incomplete method for forming true statements and therefore can't be trusted, and/or 2) is not self-contained, meaning there is some higher-order law (an illogical one, at that) at play capable of making sense of paradoxes, and therefore it can't be trusted.

A person who gives a logical "I know! It's ..." answer to the question "What's behind that horizon?" will come out rather foolish as soon as the person who said "I don't know" walks over to check it out. You have some strange concepts of logic...

1) A metric is an abstract measurement.  Metrics are used to describe reality.  There can be no metric (and thus no measurement or description of reality) without a mind to evoke the metric itself. 

2) A person who says "it's impossible to know that which is over the horizon and cannot be perceived" is more correct than the person who says "I don't know what's over the horizon."  But if you decide to check it out, that changes things completely and the question becomes relevant to a current description of reality.

BitChick
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1120


View Profile
November 13, 2013, 05:13:55 PM
 #377


Quote
Everything happens for a reason. That reason may just be something other than god. For instance, if you took a whole bunch of magnet bars with N and S at opposite ends, tossed them into the air, and let them fall freely over a large space, you'll see them orient themselves into large lines and curves, as the S's attract to the N's. Were the reason they oriented themselves in such a way god's doing? Or was it basic physics?
You are missing my point. God is the creator of everything on earth, so he created
all the physical laws that we are  aware at the present time and that's your reason.


So if god created physical laws, then who created god?


No one created God.  He was, and is and is to come.  He is eternal.  Living in finite bodies in a world that has a beginning and an end we see things in the physical but cannot grasp the idea of eternity fully.  Everything around us is going through a process of life and then death so this is really beyond us at this point.

BTW, don't ever try to think about where God came from!  I have tried to do that a few times and it just makes me dizzy.  Wink  

1BitcHiCK1iRa6YVY6qDqC6M594RBYLNPo
Rassah
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1680


Director of Bitcoin100


View Profile
November 13, 2013, 05:21:12 PM
 #378

1) A metric is an abstract measurement.  Metrics are used to describe reality.  There can be no metric (and thus no measurement or description of reality) without a mind to evoke the metric itself. 

A metric is just a way for us to subjectively quantify an objective world. Some people might say a distance is one inch, some people might say that it is 3 centimeters, but egardless of their subjective measurements, that length still exists. So I see measurements as simply a way for us to describe reality, not for us to define or create reality from our minds. We say what we see, we don't create what we say.

Quote
2) A person who says "it's impossible to know that which is over the horizon and cannot be perceived" is more correct than the person who says "I don't know what's over the horizon."  But if you decide to check it out, that changes things completely and the question becomes relevant to a current description of reality.

If it changes things completely, then the person who said "it's impossible to know" is abviously more wrong that the person who says "I don't know yet." The phrase "it's impossible" also implies that we shouldn't even try, which is a MAJOR issue with conservative religion, where they claim "God did it" or "Only god knows," and don't bother investigating it themselves. So, obviously, I am extremely hostile to that idea.

Rassah
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1680


Director of Bitcoin100


View Profile
November 13, 2013, 05:23:02 PM
 #379

So if god created physical laws, then who created god?


No one created God.  He was, and is and is to come.  He is eternal.  Living in finite bodies in a world that has a beginning and an end we see things in the physical but cannot grasp the idea of eternity fully.  Everything around us is going through a process of life and then death so this is really beyond us at this point.

And laws of physics can't be "was, and is and is to come ... eternal ... [and] living in finite bodies in a world that has a beginning and an end" because...?

the joint
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1806



View Profile
November 13, 2013, 05:28:33 PM
 #380

1) A metric is an abstract measurement.  Metrics are used to describe reality.  There can be no metric (and thus no measurement or description of reality) without a mind to evoke the metric itself. 

A metric is just a way for us to subjectively quantify an objective world. Some people might say a distance is one inch, some people might say that it is 3 centimeters, but egardless of their subjective measurements, that length still exists. So I see measurements as simply a way for us to describe reality, not for us to define or create reality from our minds. We say what we see, we don't create what we say.

Quote
2) A person who says "it's impossible to know that which is over the horizon and cannot be perceived" is more correct than the person who says "I don't know what's over the horizon."  But if you decide to check it out, that changes things completely and the question becomes relevant to a current description of reality.

If it changes things completely, then the person who said "it's impossible to know" is abviously more wrong that the person who says "I don't know yet." The phrase "it's impossible" also implies that we shouldn't even try, which is a MAJOR issue with conservative religion, where they claim "God did it" or "Only god knows," and don't bother investigating it themselves. So, obviously, I am extremely hostile to that idea.

1). You're just plain wrong in your assumption that an objective world exists independent of subjectivity.

2). Things change completely because whereas once it was impossible to perceive beyond the horizon (and thus impossible to reason about what's beyond it) you moved beyond the horizon to check it out.  If you're not beyond the horizon, then it is absolutely impossible to reason about what is beyond it.  The phrase "it's impossible" holds when you can't perceive past the horizon, but it does not hold if you are perceiving beyond the horizon.  

Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 [19] 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!