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Author Topic: Computer Scientists Prove God Exists  (Read 24449 times)
Rassah
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November 25, 2013, 09:53:05 PM
 #441

We need to really know God and to know Him is to fear and respect and obey Him not just make up whatever we want to believe about Him. 

And yet, Christians have been guilty of this since 400AD, when they put together the bible from parts they liked, and threw away parts they didn't.

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Rassah
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November 25, 2013, 10:01:03 PM
 #442

The way I look at it, I just see fear as our human instinct and love as our inner god, ego vs soul.  I feel that if we remove all fear of god, and anything, we would be left closer to god.

Only in the sense that you will be ignoring your fear telling you to stop doing stupid/dangerous things, will keep making stupid/dangerous things, and get your ass killed faster. Though I think you will just end up closer to dirt.

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November 25, 2013, 10:14:34 PM
 #443

The way I look at it, I just see fear as our human instinct and love as our inner god, ego vs soul.  I feel that if we remove all fear of god, and anything, we would be left closer to god.

Only in the sense that you will be ignoring your fear telling you to stop doing stupid/dangerous things, will keep making stupid/dangerous things, and get your ass killed faster. Though I think you will just end up closer to dirt.
What?  If you're going to reply to everybody at least have a rational debate so people can reply back.

Less ego = less fear = more happiness, more peace, more understanding, all of which indicate being close to god.

Psychedelics decrease your ego to the point you can see god, they are quite effective at giving you a more positive, understanding outlook on life.  I would reckon you try it, Rassah, so you're not talking out of inexperience and ignorance.

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November 25, 2013, 10:21:23 PM
 #444

Here's one for you, @Rassah, since you assume an absolute separation between objective and subjective reality, or what you consider 'real' and 'unreal' respectively.  If we acknowledge the phenomenon of cognition in general as a "real" event that can lead to the formation of entirely "unreal" concepts, don't we have a huge problem on our hands?  How can something real produce something totally and utterly unreal?

What is actually being produced? If I project an image of a house on a white screen, am I producing a house? Or just a concept that looks like/represents a house?

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You could say that an imagination is like a Universe in that the content of one's imagination obeys certain rules and laws; one of these rules is that imaginative content is binary, and accordingly we can not imagine simultaneous yes/no states (try imagining a shirt that is both red and not red).  

I think imagination isn't following rules and laws, so much as it is following whatever we are capable of imagining based on our limited experience. Ever notice that all aliens in all our fiction are either humanoid, or resemble some other creature found on out planet? Creating something completely new and never before imagines is a difficult skill (we give out PhD's for such a task).
Ironically, while we can't imagine a shirt that is both red and not red, or an element that is there and is not there at the same time, that is, in fact, how the universe works on a quantum level. So, technically, our imagination is even too limited to imagine how the universe actually exists in our objective, observable reality. The funny thing is that people are claiming that our universe is only limited by our imagination, when the trust is that the our imagination is limiting our understanding of the universe.

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@Rassah, when you talk about some objective reality that can exist totally independent of any subjectivity or observation, you make a logical fallacy (actually two) by imposing an assumption that happens to be false upon a hypothetical scenario that has never been observed, and in fact could never be observed.

Think of it this way. I can observe what is in my room right now. You can't. Just because you can't observe what is here, does not mean that this room doesn't exist. Someone else can, and is, observing it. Extending that to the rest of the universe, just because we are not observing it right now, doesn't mean someone else isn't. And, to me, anyway, its easy to come to the conclusion that just because I am not observing something else in the universe, that it doesn't exist. To think otherwise would be to believe that the unviverse doesn't exist where people are not seeing it, and is constantly being spontaneously created and destroyed as we walk through places, or even pan our vision across a landscape. Actually, that is something that humans do believe when they go through child spychological developlent. If you hide a ball away from a 1 year old, he will believe that it simply no longer exists. Object permanence is the term for the thing we learn when we grow up.

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Your assumption is actually your conclusion; you assume that objectivity and subjectivity are mutually exclusive.

Aren't they by definition? Otherwise I would have to rethink my political view as an objectivist.

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But, how could you possibly observe a Universe that is totally absent of observation?  This is an inherent contradiction and it could never possibly happen.  I find it really interesting that you're forming conclusions about a totally hypothetical and non-empirical event when you're such a stark advocate of empirical study and the scientific method.

Actually, I propose the exact opposite. Somewhat. What you describe there is EXACTLY my complaint about subjective universes, imagines realities, gods, and unicorns. As you say, "how could you possibly observe a Universe that is totally absent of observation?" By this universe I mean one in which a god, or some other imagines creature, exists. If you can't, then it has no relevance on us. Such a god would just angrily wave his arms at me, and have them pass through me without ever having an effect on my life. As for the parts of the universe we can't observe, the only assumption I make is that the rest of the universe follows the laws of physics that I have observed the universe following around me (around me includes things we see out in space with our telescopes). I think it's pretty logical to assume that the universe is consistent with the laws of physics, regardless of whether I am paying attention to them. Isn't it?

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November 25, 2013, 10:29:44 PM
 #445

Laws are not natural, the universe has none.  Our collective reality is only subject to 'laws of physics' and limitation because we believe it to be so.

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November 25, 2013, 10:31:22 PM
 #446

The way I look at it, I just see fear as our human instinct and love as our inner god, ego vs soul.  I feel that if we remove all fear of god, and anything, we would be left closer to god.

Only in the sense that you will be ignoring your fear telling you to stop doing stupid/dangerous things, will keep making stupid/dangerous things, and get your ass killed faster. Though I think you will just end up closer to dirt.
What?  If you're going to reply to everybody at least have a rational debate so people can reply back.

Less ego = less fear = more happiness, more peace, more understanding, all of which indicate being close to god.

You need fear to tell you that riding a bike at high speed without a helmet will likely end up getting you "closer to god." Basically, fear is a biological instinct that keeps us alive as a species, by making us fear things like steep cliffs and hungry lions.

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November 25, 2013, 10:33:25 PM
 #447

Laws are not natural, the universe has none.  Our collective reality is only subject to 'laws of physics' and limitation because we believe it to be so.

Why is it that all of us have been believing this for literally millions of years, and not a single one of us has realized they they could just stop believing and do whatever they wanted?

Even better, why, or even how, do all animals believe it and follow the laws of physics, too?

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November 25, 2013, 10:39:51 PM
 #448

The way I look at it, I just see fear as our human instinct and love as our inner god, ego vs soul.  I feel that if we remove all fear of god, and anything, we would be left closer to god.

Only in the sense that you will be ignoring your fear telling you to stop doing stupid/dangerous things, will keep making stupid/dangerous things, and get your ass killed faster. Though I think you will just end up closer to dirt.
What?  If you're going to reply to everybody at least have a rational debate so people can reply back.

Less ego = less fear = more happiness, more peace, more understanding, all of which indicate being close to god.

You need fear to tell you that riding a bike at high speed without a helmet will likely end up getting you "closer to god." Basically, fear is a biological instinct that keeps us alive as a species, by making us fear things like steep cliffs and hungry lions.

Laws are not natural, the universe has none.  Our collective reality is only subject to 'laws of physics' and limitation because we believe it to be so.

Why is it that all of us have been believing this for literally millions of years, and not a single one of us has realized they they could just stop believing and do whatever they wanted?

Even better, why, or even how, do all animals believe it and follow the laws of physics, too?
Apparently people have, for I have broken physics and my friend has levitated.  It just has not stuck as we're surrounded by negativity, in order for us to keep that infinitely powerful energy with us, we need to work together to channel a large amount of positive energy into a unified group, a music festival for example would do wonders.

It's like falling in love, if any of you know what that's like.  I send my positive energy to you, you receive that energy and channel it and a little more back to me, I receive it and repeat.  Before you know it, a feedback loop is created (sorta like how guitars resonate feedback through an amp) and this energy will build and build until it is greater than the negative energy limiting us.

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November 25, 2013, 11:33:10 PM
 #449

Curious if any of you understood what I'm conceptualizing here?  That's the best way I could describe the actual shift in events that take place to enable one to fly.

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November 25, 2013, 11:41:34 PM
 #450

The way I look at it, I just see fear as our human instinct and love as our inner god, ego vs soul.  I feel that if we remove all fear of god, and anything, we would be left closer to god.

Only in the sense that you will be ignoring your fear telling you to stop doing stupid/dangerous things, will keep making stupid/dangerous things, and get your ass killed faster. Though I think you will just end up closer to dirt.
What?  If you're going to reply to everybody at least have a rational debate so people can reply back.

Less ego = less fear = more happiness, more peace, more understanding, all of which indicate being close to god.

You need fear to tell you that riding a bike at high speed without a helmet will likely end up getting you "closer to god." Basically, fear is a biological instinct that keeps us alive as a species, by making us fear things like steep cliffs and hungry lions.

Laws are not natural, the universe has none.  Our collective reality is only subject to 'laws of physics' and limitation because we believe it to be so.

Why is it that all of us have been believing this for literally millions of years, and not a single one of us has realized they they could just stop believing and do whatever they wanted?

Even better, why, or even how, do all animals believe it and follow the laws of physics, too?
Apparently people have, for I have broken physics and my friend has levitated.  It just has not stuck as we're surrounded by negativity, in order for us to keep that infinitely powerful energy with us, we need to work together to channel a large amount of positive energy into a unified group, a music festival for example would do wonders.

It's like falling in love, if any of you know what that's like.  I send my positive energy to you, you receive that energy and channel it and a little more back to me, I receive it and repeat.  Before you know it, a feedback loop is created (sorta like how guitars resonate feedback through an amp) and this energy will build and build until it is greater than the negative energy limiting us.
And this is why you don't do drugs, kids

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November 26, 2013, 01:33:12 AM
 #451

Guess you've never fallen in love to know how powerful that energy is?

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November 26, 2013, 01:42:48 AM
 #452

Curious if any of you understood what I'm conceptualizing here?  That's the best way I could describe the actual shift in events that take place to enable one to fly.

Douggie Adams explained it for us.  Just have to fall, and miss the ground.

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November 26, 2013, 01:46:19 AM
 #453

I have to admit I haven't read full thread yet, but I did read Gödel, Escher, Bach, and enjoyed it a lot.
From my understanding, god could exist, indeed. But only if we had created it.

A neuron is an electrically excitable cell that processes and transmits information through electrochemical signals. These signals between neurons occur via synapses, specialized connections with other cells. Neurons can connect to each other to form neural networks.
[...]
A number of specialized types of neurons exist: sensory neurons respond to touch, sound, light and numerous other stimuli

How easy is it to replace "neuron" by human in the previous description?
It is possible that our interactions gave birth to some sort of "meta" counsciouness, and that's the only link to "god" I can see from this book.

The ant/memory part explains what I mean so well. Just read the book.

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November 26, 2013, 01:51:27 PM
 #454

If you are talking about Cantor's diagonalization, where the real number(R) p differs by a decimal digit from every real rational number(Q) n, and thus has no real number partner, the my answer is that p can not exist(in Q), or is an imaginary number. The reason is that since there is an countable infinite number of real rational number n's, you will never come to a conclusion on what p must be in Q. In other words, it will take an uncountable infinite amount of n numbers(which does not exist, as Q is only countable) for p to be created, or put another way, it will take an uncountable infinite amount of time, calculations, attempts, or whatever, in order to create p. So you will always get closer to creating p without actually creating it. But yet it can be constructed by other means.
Do your believe that for every set A there exists a set, called the power set of A, P(A), that contains every subset of the set A? (The axiom of power sets)?

No, I don't. There can be two sets that are not mathematically related in any way. We can still count them subjectively, as if by yanking two unrelated numbers out of a barrel of infinite numbers, and saying "This number here, for this number there" and perform this excersise infinitely.
No, you cannot count all the real numbers(R), you cannot create a one-to-one mapping between N and R, as there are not enough natural numbers, by cantors diagonal argument. If you give me a any mapping between N and R, that you say is surjective, I can always constructively find a number in R that you miss with your surjection, and your surjection is not surjective.

Cardinality(roughly equvivalent of size) of set are defined by the existence of injections and bijections(and surjections, but that require AC) between them. As we can construct a bijection(f(x) = 2x) between the natural numbers(N) and the even natural numbers(2,4,6,8,...), we say that the even natural numbers have the same cardinality as all of the natural numbers.
On the other hand any injection from the natural numbers can't be surjective, and can't therefor be a bijection, we then say that R have a greater cardinality then N. But we can show that the set of all subsets of N have the same cardinality as R.


(You should really go read some elementary set theory, your posts about them seems that you are unable to comprehend what the fuck is going on. This is in no way criticism, set theory is at some times really counter intuitive, and most have, like you, difficulty of understanding it.)

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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November 26, 2013, 05:58:15 PM
 #455

(You should really go read some elementary set theory, your posts about them seems that you are unable to comprehend what the fuck is going on. This is in no way criticism, set theory is at some times really counter intuitive, and most have, like you, difficulty of understanding it.)

I kind of understand what this is about, where you can have a number in one set that doesn't exist in another set, and I do understand the concept, but that's really only applicable if you are trying to match your one set to the other mathematically. I can take one of your numbers from set B, which can't exist in set A, and say that I'm matching it with the number 1 from set A. In the end, I still have two sets where no matter how many number units I pick out of it, there will always be +1 unit left to pick out. So if I just look at infinity, and ignore mathematical relationships between sets, the ∞+1 of one set is really no different from the ∞ of the other set. Not because of what they contain, but because neither one has an end.

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November 28, 2013, 11:06:20 PM
 #456

There is no such thing as god, it is only.a perception.

Chinese people, worship a chinese god

Arab people, worship a arab god

If cats had a god, they.would worship a cat god.

If horses had gods, it will be a horse god.

Unfortunately, believe it or not. Knowledge in itself is what creates, and divides our world. Knowledge is evil.

With our intellegence, we fragment, label, and divide everything in the world. Thus causing conflict, hate, greed, jealousy and wars.

I have no interest in religion, politics, marriage or education. It is all a method of control, to me.
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November 28, 2013, 11:22:04 PM
 #457

I think you are mistaken that religions worship a different god.  Polytheism is still monotheism from a different perspective.  There is one universe, that which, is god.

The universal god is love and light.

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November 29, 2013, 01:31:06 AM
 #458

Polytheism, monotheism, god, etc... Its all nonsense.

The purpose of life is living it.
The most important thing in life is Relationships.

Simple is that.

Sitting there and worshiping, praying and worrying about your beliefs and gods is a distraction, waste of your time, and hogwash

If you have children, you wouldn't want them to worry, worship and think of you (there creator) all day long. You would want them to enjoy life to the fullest.

For your sake, If there was a god (which there isnt). We are his children. It wouldnt want you to worry, pray and worship it. It would want for you to live the life he has given you to the fullest
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November 29, 2013, 02:36:05 AM
 #459

So if you say the important thing in life is relationships, could we simplify that to love?  Love is god.  Love is conscious energy.  Consciousness is god.  Everyone has love in them, everyone is conscious, everyone is god.

It matters not to worship god.  Though when you love god, you're loving yourself, which feels good man.

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December 03, 2013, 02:25:46 PM
 #460

Rassah: Do you believe that the equation x^2 = 2 have at least one solution?

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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