GBTC Bitcoin Investment Trust Observer

[David Rabahy]

I am desperately trying to quicken the path through Grayscale (really my custodian) to arbitrage but to be effective I would need to be able to turn it around in a small number of days (or less) and right now it has taken most of a year for the first batch (not encouraging).

tbh its a pretty silly contruct

It was the first (and so far only?) way to get tax-favored retirement funds in; the lack of agility isn't utterly fatal.

I already had/have as many non-retirement funds in that I wanted; if I want more it is pretty straightforward to get them.

Bitcoins (or derivatives) in a retirement account (especially a Roth IRA) have a rather huge advantage over Bitcoins in a non-retirement account.  *If* it goes to the moon then the tax difference will be enormous.  I do fully expect the Roth IRA terms to be changed eventually; perhaps in part in response to the giant gains of Bitcoin.

Except if.. you know... never cash out 

*insert Morpheus meme*

Couldn't agree more *but* even just spending them to purchase something (without exchanging into fiat) will trigger a taxable event.  Worse, I worry that eventually they might be taxed in place.

[Soros Shorts]

I've never quite understood how regulations that are supposed to protect the little guy have the effect of making the little guy pay a 50% markup over what accredited investors pay for at the NAV.

[Syke]

I've never quite understood how regulations that are supposed to protect the little guy have the effect of making the little guy pay a 50% markup over what accredited investors pay for at the NAV.

Regulations...for the little guy...that's a good one!

[David Rabahy]

It's almost done.  UPS tracking indicates my GBTC transfer from non-broker custodian Equity Institutional to broker Schwab has indeed been delivered this morning.  Apparently Grayscale was provided with the re-registration (although I didn't confirm that with Grayscale themselves).  I think I am only about 3 or 4 more days away from actual liquidity (after more than 3 months).  I've got to believe it would go somewhat faster the second time through but it is just so much effort on my part I am feeling less than enthusiastic.

Bottom line (at least for me): owning/exchanging US dollars to Bitcoin (and back) is pretty quick & easy in non-retirement accounts.  Retirement accounts not so much; so far it is doubly indirect (through the Bitcoin Investment Trust and GBTC)  but the tax advantage (especially with Roth) should be great but it wears me out.  Sure now I can skip directly to GBTC (and might) but that wasn't available originally.  Moreover, the arbitrage opportunity http://grayscale.co/bitcoin-investment-trust/#market-performance is largely an illusion given how long it takes to move funds through the cycle.

[jl2012]

4136XBT bought in Dec 2015

[iCEBREAKER]

GBTC trading at 11% premium!

Winklevoss ETF can't get here fast enough.

Looks like TPTB want to accumulate before the next block subsidy halving, then let the plebs buy into the green spike.

[mmortal03]

GBTC trading at 11% premium!

Winklevoss ETF can't get here fast enough.

Looks like TPTB want to accumulate before the next block subsidy halving, then let the plebs buy into the green spike.

lol, no, GBTC just doesn't track BTC *that* closely. We've seen larger spreads here, some even negative.

[bobabouey2]

GBTC at all time high.  https://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=GBTC#{"range":"max","allowChartStacking":true}

Based on yesterday's close, a near 45% premium to NAV.  http://grayscale.co/bitcoin-investment-trust/#market-performance

[bobabouey2]

GBTC at all time high.  https://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=GBTC#{"range":"max","allowChartStacking":true}

Based on yesterday's close, a near 45% premium to NAV.  http://grayscale.co/bitcoin-investment-trust/#market-performance

Oops, not quite there, yahoo max range wasn't working properly for me.

[Vlad2Vlad]

GBTC trading at 11% premium!

Winklevoss ETF can't get here fast enough.

Looks like TPTB want to accumulate before the next block subsidy halving, then let the plebs buy into the green spike.

This is probably incredibly accurate!

[mmortal03]

Broke 70!

[marcus_of_augustus]

Still no good way to arb this then??

[Chef Ramsay]

If the Wink ETF approval sincs w/ this uptrend then the upside will be unbelievable considering global markets at this junction. This could be a Rage Against the Machine event across the world meaning that the next FOMO will be far out as opposed to 2013. I'm talking 5 figures at least, yo.

[StarenseN]

If the Wink ETF approval sincs w/ this uptrend then the upside will be unbelievable considering global markets at this junction. This could be a Rage Against the Machine event across the world meaning that the next FOMO will be far out as opposed to 2013. I'm talking 5 figures at least, yo.

i concur

[ImI]

If the Wink ETF approval sincs w/ this uptrend then the upside will be unbelievable considering global markets at this junction. This could be a Rage Against the Machine event across the world meaning that the next FOMO will be far out as opposed to 2013. I'm talking 5 figures at least, yo.

Despite "Spiderwoman" being optimistic about the ETF i am not expecting it in the coming 1 or 2 years. The last difficult ETF SEC approval lasted 7 years, so that would mean 2021 for us.

[David Rabahy]

Still no good way to arb this then??

I wish.  It took me most of a year to push through to real liquidity (although technically that is unproven until I do sell at least a portion, hmm).  I do believe it would go faster the second time but to arbitrage it would require something less than a month for me to be comfortable and more like a few days to really crank it up.  I might take a second smaller lot in just to try; they did indicate that I wouldn't have to take a full $25K in since I'm already established.  If I do then I will report back.

I am reluctant to take out any of what I've got in already for fear of missing a jump up while goofing around trying to get it back in.  I am as long-minded as one can get.  That said, I've got as much of my total wealth in already that I'm comfortable with.  $70.90/$42.60 is a crazy huge spread and very tempting.

[criptix]

Still no good way to arb this then??

I wish.  It took me most of a year to push through to real liquidity (although technically that is unproven until I do sell at least a portion, hmm).  I do believe it would go faster the second time but to arbitrage it would require something less than a month for me to be comfortable and more like a few days to really crank it up.  I might take a second smaller lot in just to try; they did indicate that I wouldn't have to take a full $25K in since I'm already established.  If I do then I will report back.

I am reluctant to take out any of what I've got in already for fear of missing a jump up while goofing around trying to get it back in.  I am as long-minded as one can get.  That said, I've got as much of my total wealth in already that I'm comfortable with.  $70.90/$42.60 is a crazy huge spread and very tempting.

Isnt arbing next to impossible because you have to hold atleast 1 year?

[David Rabahy]

Still no good way to arb this then??

I wish.  It took me most of a year to push through to real liquidity (although technically that is unproven until I do sell at least a portion, hmm).  I do believe it would go faster the second time but to arbitrage it would require something less than a month for me to be comfortable and more like a few days to really crank it up.  I might take a second smaller lot in just to try; they did indicate that I wouldn't have to take a full $25K in since I'm already established.  If I do then I will report back.

I am reluctant to take out any of what I've got in already for fear of missing a jump up while goofing around trying to get it back in.  I am as long-minded as one can get.  That said, I've got as much of my total wealth in already that I'm comfortable with.  $70.90/$42.60 is a crazy huge spread and very tempting.

Isnt arbing next to impossible because you have to hold atleast 1 year?

Apparently that only applied to the original investment; new funds going in now are converted to GBTC without any holding period at all.

[Vlad2Vlad]

The real ETF, COIN, is gonna open the floodgates to trillions of dollars.

[iCEBREAKER]

The real ETF, COIN, is gonna open the floodgates to trillions of dollars.

Now that Shanghai is making gold and silver markets in yuan, backed by actual physical transactions, I'd like to see the SFE create COIN-like vehicles for BTC exposure (only with less absurdly byzantine regs and obviously self-serving delays).

When it takes a Spider Woman years to simply reuse GLD's template, the Deep Capture is beyond Jump You Fuckers territory and well into the realm of Up Against The Wall, Assholes.