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Author Topic: GBTC Bitcoin Investment Trust Observer  (Read 262289 times)
jl2012 (OP)
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December 21, 2013, 08:34:01 AM
 #141

240XBT bought with 160k$

Donation address: 374iXxS4BuqFHsEwwxUuH3nvJ69Y7Hqur3 (Bitcoin ONLY)
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Each block is stacked on top of the previous one. Adding another block to the top makes all lower blocks more difficult to remove: there is more "weight" above each block. A transaction in a block 6 blocks deep (6 confirmations) will be very difficult to remove.
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sedric398
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December 27, 2013, 01:34:40 AM
 #142

update?
BitchicksHusband
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December 27, 2013, 03:15:49 AM
 #143

It's in the first post.  70 XBT on Dec 23 and 50 XBT on Dec 24.

1BitcHiCK1iRa6YVY6qDqC6M594RBYLNPo
skivrmt
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December 27, 2013, 01:54:04 PM
 #144

It's in the first post.  70 XBT on Dec 23 and 50 XBT on Dec 24.

There's some good size money going in this Bitcoin trust.  For a goal of $10MM by year's end, I think even SecondMarket has to be amazed at where there are today.  We want Wall Street investing.  Makes it more mainstream.  Plus these aren't just anyone, these are people verified who make $300k+ a year via tax return and/or have a net worth at $1MM+...and they have friends, who have friends, and know other "rich" people... Smiley

And I see people asking why you don't just buy Bitcoin directly.  Main reason is retirement funds.  You can use your IRA or even Roth IRA to buy into this trust.  Think about a Roth.  If you truly believe these will be huge in the future.  How about no taxes, ever, on money you withdrawal down the road?  Not a bad thought!  Second reason is these are "rich folk".  I would tend to think (that they think!) this is a lot more safe than wiring money to a bank in Slovenia or Japan and hoping that company sticks around.  We've already seen Mt Gox almost go a few months back and obviously many other exchanges have come and gone.  Can this go away?  Sure, but a lot less unlikely. 
DeathAndTaxes
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December 28, 2013, 01:14:36 AM
 #145

And I see people asking why you don't just buy Bitcoin directly.  Main reason is retirement funds.  You can use your IRA or even Roth IRA to buy into this trust.  Think about a Roth.  If you truly believe these will be huge in the future.  How about no taxes, ever, on money you withdrawal down the road?  Not a bad thought!

Not likely.  Roth IRA contributions are phased out at $183,000 in income.  Just about anyone who is an accredited investor has no access to Roth IRA anyways.  Traditional IRAs aren't much better I mean if you are looking to buy a million dollars worth of Bitcoins does it really matter than the first $5,000 each year can grow tax exempt?

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Second reason is these are "rich folk".  I would tend to think (that they think!) this is a lot more safe than wiring money to a bank in Slovenia or Japan and hoping that company sticks around.  We've already seen Mt Gox almost go a few months back and obviously many other exchanges have come and gone.  Can this go away?  Sure, but a lot less unlikely. 

This is far more likely.  The wealthy are use to using experts to manage their wealth.  This is really no different then putting funds into a hedge fund.  They could pick their own stocks and day trade but they hand the money to an expert, they are already rich they don't need to do it their self anymore.
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December 28, 2013, 01:28:46 AM
 #146

And I see people asking why you don't just buy Bitcoin directly.  Main reason is retirement funds.  You can use your IRA or even Roth IRA to buy into this trust.  Think about a Roth.  If you truly believe these will be huge in the future.  How about no taxes, ever, on money you withdrawal down the road?  Not a bad thought!

Not likely.  Roth IRA contributions are phased out at $183,000 in income.  Just about anyone who is an accredited investor has no access to Roth IRA anyways.  Traditional IRAs aren't much better I mean if you are looking to buy a million dollars worth of Bitcoins does it really matter than the first $5,000 each year can grow tax exempt?

Quote
Second reason is these are "rich folk".  I would tend to think (that they think!) this is a lot more safe than wiring money to a bank in Slovenia or Japan and hoping that company sticks around.  We've already seen Mt Gox almost go a few months back and obviously many other exchanges have come and gone.  Can this go away?  Sure, but a lot less unlikely. 

This is far more likely.  The wealthy are use to using experts to manage their wealth.  This is really no different then putting funds into a hedge fund.  They could pick their own stocks and day trade but they hand the money to an expert, they are already rich they don't need to do it their self anymore.

I am not implying rich people make Roth or IRA contributions, I doubt any do!  Rich people, and poor people, do what is called Roth conversion from their IRA's.  After 2010, their are no income limits.  So a person with a $100,000 IRA could convert those funds into a Roth in any year, they just need to pay taxes on the conversion amount.  Now buy into trust for $100k with Roth money, simple. 

As far as the IRA, rich people will add $49,000 a year into their 401k (own money plus company money), then that money can be converted to a regular IRA at any point.  Now they invest in trust via IRA money.  Simple again.

Either way, good for us. Smiley
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December 28, 2013, 01:40:03 AM
 #147

Would a trust like this ever need to sell its bitcoin holdings?
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December 28, 2013, 02:29:15 AM
 #148

Would a trust like this ever need to sell its bitcoin holdings?

Yes. Think of this trust as mutual fund. If an investor, after March 2014, requests a distribution, they will need to sell to raise cash.
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December 28, 2013, 04:23:05 AM
 #149

Would a trust like this ever need to sell its bitcoin holdings?

Yes. Think of this trust as mutual fund. If an investor, after March 2014, requests a distribution, they will need to sell to raise cash.

So how do we trigger a stampede out of the fund?  Grin
skivrmt
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December 28, 2013, 12:45:17 PM
 #150

Would a trust like this ever need to sell its bitcoin holdings?

Yes. Think of this trust as mutual fund. If an investor, after March 2014, requests a distribution, they will need to sell to raise cash.

So how do we trigger a stampede out of the fund?  Grin

Why would we want to!?

And not sure we could, accredited investors probably dont troll lowly forums like this for advice Wink
jl2012 (OP)
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December 29, 2013, 10:15:31 AM
 #151

Around 50XBT bought per day in the last few days

Donation address: 374iXxS4BuqFHsEwwxUuH3nvJ69Y7Hqur3 (Bitcoin ONLY)
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PGP: D3CC 1772 8600 5BB8 FF67 3294 C524 2A1A B393 6517
skivrmt
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December 29, 2013, 02:10:36 PM
 #152

Around 50XBT bought per day in the last few days

According to the website any investments made in 2013 get the 1.5% entry fee waived.  I'm surprised we haven't seen more going into the fun in the last week or so.  Maybe everyone who wanted in already went it??
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December 29, 2013, 02:14:19 PM
 #153

Around 50XBT bought per day in the last few days

According to the website any investments made in 2013 get the 1.5% entry fee waived.  I'm surprised we haven't seen more going into the fun in the last week or so.  Maybe everyone who wanted in already went it??

1.5% isn't a big deal
wachtwoord
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December 29, 2013, 02:16:21 PM
 #154

Around 50XBT bought per day in the last few days

According to the website any investments made in 2013 get the 1.5% entry fee waived.  I'm surprised we haven't seen more going into the fun in the last week or so.  Maybe everyone who wanted in already went it??

1.5% isn't a big deal

 Roll Eyes you cannot be serious.
Dragonkiller
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December 29, 2013, 02:18:16 PM
 #155

Around 50XBT bought per day in the last few days

According to the website any investments made in 2013 get the 1.5% entry fee waived.  I'm surprised we haven't seen more going into the fun in the last week or so.  Maybe everyone who wanted in already went it??

1.5% isn't a big deal

 Roll Eyes you cannot be serious.

Not sure what you mean, but when a market can move more than 20% in a day, I wouldn't be worried about saving 1.5% just to get in before 2014. I would wait for a good opportunity.
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December 29, 2013, 02:25:15 PM
 #156

Around 50XBT bought per day in the last few days

According to the website any investments made in 2013 get the 1.5% entry fee waived.  I'm surprised we haven't seen more going into the fun in the last week or so.  Maybe everyone who wanted in already went it??

1.5% isn't a big deal

 Roll Eyes you cannot be serious.

Not sure what you mean, but when a market can move more than 20% in a day, I wouldn't be worried about saving 1.5% just to get in before 2014. I would wait for a good opportunity.

1.5% is a big deal when you're talking about $50k, $100k type of investments.  The other thing is, you say a good opportunity.  What's a "good opportunity"?  Are you implying to can time the bitcoin market?  Is it at $750?  $700?  $440?  
Dragonkiller
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December 29, 2013, 02:27:09 PM
 #157

Around 50XBT bought per day in the last few days

According to the website any investments made in 2013 get the 1.5% entry fee waived.  I'm surprised we haven't seen more going into the fun in the last week or so.  Maybe everyone who wanted in already went it??

1.5% isn't a big deal

 Roll Eyes you cannot be serious.

Not sure what you mean, but when a market can move more than 20% in a day, I wouldn't be worried about saving 1.5% just to get in before 2014. I would wait for a good opportunity.

I definitely would. An asset being volatile does not mean 1.5% margin is something to be laughed at.

A high stakes professional poker player with a 1% edge would become a loser if he gave up 1.5%. Just saying.

this isn't poker, or a low-return stable asset. what you're saying makes little to no sense in a volatile market. if the price right now is $700, and you think there is a high probability it will be $600 in a couple of weeks, are you really going to rush in for a 1.5% discount?
Dragonkiller
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December 29, 2013, 02:30:18 PM
 #158

Around 50XBT bought per day in the last few days

According to the website any investments made in 2013 get the 1.5% entry fee waived.  I'm surprised we haven't seen more going into the fun in the last week or so.  Maybe everyone who wanted in already went it??

1.5% isn't a big deal

 Roll Eyes you cannot be serious.

Not sure what you mean, but when a market can move more than 20% in a day, I wouldn't be worried about saving 1.5% just to get in before 2014. I would wait for a good opportunity.

1.5% is a big deal when you're talking about $50k, $100k type of investments.  The other thing is, you say a good opportunity.  What's a "good opportunity"?  Are you implying to can time the bitcoin market?  Is it at $750?  $700?  $440?  

Really? $1500 is a big deal to you when you are investing $100,000?

No I am not implying I can time the bitcoin market, what I am saying is that it is very volatile. We have seen it go from $1100+ to under $500 in less than a week. You are crazy if you think anyone rational cares about 1.5% enough to rush in when there is an almost certain possibility it will go at least 10% below what it will be on the last day of the year (last day for the 1.5% discount)
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December 29, 2013, 02:31:16 PM
 #159

Around 50XBT bought per day in the last few days

According to the website any investments made in 2013 get the 1.5% entry fee waived.  I'm surprised we haven't seen more going into the fun in the last week or so.  Maybe everyone who wanted in already went it??

1.5% isn't a big deal

 Roll Eyes you cannot be serious.

Not sure what you mean, but when a market can move more than 20% in a day, I wouldn't be worried about saving 1.5% just to get in before 2014. I would wait for a good opportunity.

1.5% is a big deal when you're talking about $50k, $100k type of investments.  The other thing is, you say a good opportunity.  What's a "good opportunity"?  Are you implying to can time the bitcoin market?  Is it at $750?  $700?  $440?  

Really? $1500 is a big deal to you when you are investing $100,000?

No I am not implying I can time the bitcoin market, what I am saying is that it is very volatile. We have seen it go from $1100+ to under $500 in less than a week. You are crazy if you think anyone rational cares about 1.5% enough to rush in when there is an almost certain possibility it will go at least 10% below what it will be on the last day of the year (last day for the 1.5% discount)

YES, I'm not implying that, I'm saying it out loud.
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December 29, 2013, 02:32:02 PM
 #160

wow forget it, you guys are more stupid than i thought
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