GBTC Bitcoin Investment Trust Observer

[jl2012]

240XBT bought with 160k$

[sedric398]

update?

[BitchicksHusband]

It's in the first post.  70 XBT on Dec 23 and 50 XBT on Dec 24.

[skivrmt]

It's in the first post.  70 XBT on Dec 23 and 50 XBT on Dec 24.

There's some good size money going in this Bitcoin trust.  For a goal of $10MM by year's end, I think even SecondMarket has to be amazed at where there are today.  We want Wall Street investing.  Makes it more mainstream.  Plus these aren't just anyone, these are people verified who make $300k+ a year via tax return and/or have a net worth at $1MM+...and they have friends, who have friends, and know other "rich" people...

And I see people asking why you don't just buy Bitcoin directly.  Main reason is retirement funds.  You can use your IRA or even Roth IRA to buy into this trust.  Think about a Roth.  If you truly believe these will be huge in the future.  How about no taxes, ever, on money you withdrawal down the road?  Not a bad thought!  Second reason is these are "rich folk".  I would tend to think (that they think!) this is a lot more safe than wiring money to a bank in Slovenia or Japan and hoping that company sticks around.  We've already seen Mt Gox almost go a few months back and obviously many other exchanges have come and gone.  Can this go away?  Sure, but a lot less unlikely. 

[DeathAndTaxes]

And I see people asking why you don't just buy Bitcoin directly.  Main reason is retirement funds.  You can use your IRA or even Roth IRA to buy into this trust.  Think about a Roth.  If you truly believe these will be huge in the future.  How about no taxes, ever, on money you withdrawal down the road?  Not a bad thought!

Not likely.  Roth IRA contributions are phased out at $183,000 in income.  Just about anyone who is an accredited investor has no access to Roth IRA anyways.  Traditional IRAs aren't much better I mean if you are looking to buy a million dollars worth of Bitcoins does it really matter than the first $5,000 each year can grow tax exempt?

Second reason is these are "rich folk".  I would tend to think (that they think!) this is a lot more safe than wiring money to a bank in Slovenia or Japan and hoping that company sticks around.  We've already seen Mt Gox almost go a few months back and obviously many other exchanges have come and gone.  Can this go away?  Sure, but a lot less unlikely. 

This is far more likely.  The wealthy are use to using experts to manage their wealth.  This is really no different then putting funds into a hedge fund.  They could pick their own stocks and day trade but they hand the money to an expert, they are already rich they don't need to do it their self anymore.

[skivrmt]

And I see people asking why you don't just buy Bitcoin directly.  Main reason is retirement funds.  You can use your IRA or even Roth IRA to buy into this trust.  Think about a Roth.  If you truly believe these will be huge in the future.  How about no taxes, ever, on money you withdrawal down the road?  Not a bad thought!

Not likely.  Roth IRA contributions are phased out at $183,000 in income.  Just about anyone who is an accredited investor has no access to Roth IRA anyways.  Traditional IRAs aren't much better I mean if you are looking to buy a million dollars worth of Bitcoins does it really matter than the first $5,000 each year can grow tax exempt?

Second reason is these are "rich folk".  I would tend to think (that they think!) this is a lot more safe than wiring money to a bank in Slovenia or Japan and hoping that company sticks around.  We've already seen Mt Gox almost go a few months back and obviously many other exchanges have come and gone.  Can this go away?  Sure, but a lot less unlikely. 

This is far more likely.  The wealthy are use to using experts to manage their wealth.  This is really no different then putting funds into a hedge fund.  They could pick their own stocks and day trade but they hand the money to an expert, they are already rich they don't need to do it their self anymore.

I am not implying rich people make Roth or IRA contributions, I doubt any do!  Rich people, and poor people, do what is called Roth conversion from their IRA's.  After 2010, their are no income limits.  So a person with a $100,000 IRA could convert those funds into a Roth in any year, they just need to pay taxes on the conversion amount.  Now buy into trust for $100k with Roth money, simple. 

As far as the IRA, rich people will add $49,000 a year into their 401k (own money plus company money), then that money can be converted to a regular IRA at any point.  Now they invest in trust via IRA money.  Simple again.

Either way, good for us.

[Alonzo Ewing]

Would a trust like this ever need to sell its bitcoin holdings?

[skivrmt]

Would a trust like this ever need to sell its bitcoin holdings?

Yes. Think of this trust as mutual fund. If an investor, after March 2014, requests a distribution, they will need to sell to raise cash.

[HairyMaclairy]

Would a trust like this ever need to sell its bitcoin holdings?

Yes. Think of this trust as mutual fund. If an investor, after March 2014, requests a distribution, they will need to sell to raise cash.

So how do we trigger a stampede out of the fund? 

[skivrmt]

Would a trust like this ever need to sell its bitcoin holdings?

Yes. Think of this trust as mutual fund. If an investor, after March 2014, requests a distribution, they will need to sell to raise cash.

So how do we trigger a stampede out of the fund? 

Why would we want to!?

And not sure we could, accredited investors probably dont troll lowly forums like this for advice

[jl2012]

Around 50XBT bought per day in the last few days

[skivrmt]

Around 50XBT bought per day in the last few days

According to the website any investments made in 2013 get the 1.5% entry fee waived.  I'm surprised we haven't seen more going into the fun in the last week or so.  Maybe everyone who wanted in already went it??

[Dragonkiller]

Around 50XBT bought per day in the last few days

According to the website any investments made in 2013 get the 1.5% entry fee waived.  I'm surprised we haven't seen more going into the fun in the last week or so.  Maybe everyone who wanted in already went it??

1.5% isn't a big deal

[wachtwoord]

Around 50XBT bought per day in the last few days

According to the website any investments made in 2013 get the 1.5% entry fee waived.  I'm surprised we haven't seen more going into the fun in the last week or so.  Maybe everyone who wanted in already went it??

1.5% isn't a big deal

  you cannot be serious.

[Dragonkiller]

Around 50XBT bought per day in the last few days

According to the website any investments made in 2013 get the 1.5% entry fee waived.  I'm surprised we haven't seen more going into the fun in the last week or so.  Maybe everyone who wanted in already went it??

1.5% isn't a big deal

  you cannot be serious.

Not sure what you mean, but when a market can move more than 20% in a day, I wouldn't be worried about saving 1.5% just to get in before 2014. I would wait for a good opportunity.

[skivrmt]

Around 50XBT bought per day in the last few days

According to the website any investments made in 2013 get the 1.5% entry fee waived.  I'm surprised we haven't seen more going into the fun in the last week or so.  Maybe everyone who wanted in already went it??

1.5% isn't a big deal

  you cannot be serious.

Not sure what you mean, but when a market can move more than 20% in a day, I wouldn't be worried about saving 1.5% just to get in before 2014. I would wait for a good opportunity.

1.5% is a big deal when you're talking about $50k, $100k type of investments.  The other thing is, you say a good opportunity.  What's a "good opportunity"?  Are you implying to can time the bitcoin market?  Is it at $750?  $700?  $440?  

[Dragonkiller]

Around 50XBT bought per day in the last few days

According to the website any investments made in 2013 get the 1.5% entry fee waived.  I'm surprised we haven't seen more going into the fun in the last week or so.  Maybe everyone who wanted in already went it??

1.5% isn't a big deal

  you cannot be serious.

Not sure what you mean, but when a market can move more than 20% in a day, I wouldn't be worried about saving 1.5% just to get in before 2014. I would wait for a good opportunity.

I definitely would. An asset being volatile does not mean 1.5% margin is something to be laughed at.

A high stakes professional poker player with a 1% edge would become a loser if he gave up 1.5%. Just saying.

this isn't poker, or a low-return stable asset. what you're saying makes little to no sense in a volatile market. if the price right now is $700, and you think there is a high probability it will be $600 in a couple of weeks, are you really going to rush in for a 1.5% discount?

[Dragonkiller]

Around 50XBT bought per day in the last few days

According to the website any investments made in 2013 get the 1.5% entry fee waived.  I'm surprised we haven't seen more going into the fun in the last week or so.  Maybe everyone who wanted in already went it??

1.5% isn't a big deal

  you cannot be serious.

Not sure what you mean, but when a market can move more than 20% in a day, I wouldn't be worried about saving 1.5% just to get in before 2014. I would wait for a good opportunity.

1.5% is a big deal when you're talking about $50k, $100k type of investments.  The other thing is, you say a good opportunity.  What's a "good opportunity"?  Are you implying to can time the bitcoin market?  Is it at $750?  $700?  $440?  

Really? $1500 is a big deal to you when you are investing $100,000?

No I am not implying I can time the bitcoin market, what I am saying is that it is very volatile. We have seen it go from $1100+ to under $500 in less than a week. You are crazy if you think anyone rational cares about 1.5% enough to rush in when there is an almost certain possibility it will go at least 10% below what it will be on the last day of the year (last day for the 1.5% discount)

[wachtwoord]

Around 50XBT bought per day in the last few days

According to the website any investments made in 2013 get the 1.5% entry fee waived.  I'm surprised we haven't seen more going into the fun in the last week or so.  Maybe everyone who wanted in already went it??

1.5% isn't a big deal

  you cannot be serious.

Not sure what you mean, but when a market can move more than 20% in a day, I wouldn't be worried about saving 1.5% just to get in before 2014. I would wait for a good opportunity.

1.5% is a big deal when you're talking about $50k, $100k type of investments.  The other thing is, you say a good opportunity.  What's a "good opportunity"?  Are you implying to can time the bitcoin market?  Is it at $750?  $700?  $440?  

Really? $1500 is a big deal to you when you are investing $100,000?

No I am not implying I can time the bitcoin market, what I am saying is that it is very volatile. We have seen it go from $1100+ to under $500 in less than a week. You are crazy if you think anyone rational cares about 1.5% enough to rush in when there is an almost certain possibility it will go at least 10% below what it will be on the last day of the year (last day for the 1.5% discount)

YES, I'm not implying that, I'm saying it out loud.

[Dragonkiller]

wow forget it, you guys are more stupid than i thought