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Author Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information  (Read 2756221 times)
gbeirn
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December 26, 2013, 03:35:24 PM
 #8581

Another way of saying this is that if you run a forging node with 1000 NXT, you will earn only 1 NXT for every 1 million NXTs that are charged as fees.  Thus you will "double" your 1000 NXT initial forging stake only when THE ENTIRE AMOUNT OF AVAILABLE NXT has cycled through once not as transactions, but FEES.

Maybe it's just me, but I gotta say that forging does not seem to be a very good motivation for running a node.

With traditional coins, mining pools allow a steady income rather than once-in-a-lifetime lottery windfall when (/if) you finally get a block. Is there to be a similar concept for someone to bother forging with only a handful of NXT?

Nothing is stopping anyone from creating a pool to do the same thing. You would have to trust the operator however and send them your NXT first.

NXT VPS Server Donations can be sent here: 6044921191674841550
At the end of each month I will donate some of them back to the community.
This is separate from my main wallet so you can keep track of them. I will keep them in there and only use them for hosting.
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December 26, 2013, 03:36:03 PM
 #8582

So, you dont have the same issue, right? What version are you personally running?

0.4.8. I do have this issue time to time.

Sorry, CfB, can you add constantly link to the last or recommended version to your first post in this thread? Wikll be much easier find it inside topic in this case.
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December 26, 2013, 03:36:21 PM
 #8583

I think a better idea would be to IPO the service providers/gateways


for example: USD/NXT gateway could issue Nxt in IPO....people can buy a share of the company and get a monthly dividence of nxt based on there holdings.


BCNext
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Re: [ANN] Nxt :: descendant of Bitcoin
November 08, 2013, 07:59:19 AM
Reply with quote  #446
It is real.

Here is an example

I want to run a business.  I issue an asset (let's call it Krusty Krab tokens - KKT).  I set quantity of KKT to 1000.  I announce that I sell KKT for 20 NXT each and pay 5 NXT monthly interest within next 6 months.  I create an ask order -- 1000 KKT for 20,000 NXT.  You create a transaction that sends me 500 NXT for 25 KKT.  It's up to you what to do with your 25 KKT (you can place an ask order and sell them for 27 NXT) but each month I will check the blockchain to see who owns KKT.  And I will send 5 NXT for each KKT to those who owns them. 




Of course we want a usd/ Nxt gateway. But I fail to understand why it is so important. Soon you can sell/ buy Nxt at Btc-e, Bitstamp in both usd, bct and multiple other exchanges. They are centralized but have already worked so far and have certain trust of the communities.

What is truly innovative and disruptive about the Nxt asset exchange is to give internet start-up a direct way of raising money and growing their business in global scale.

A NXT/USD gateway in the Nxt exchange would represent something like Chase Manhattan in the real world but decentralized....it would be profitable from day one cuz all USD/NXT transactions go thru it.




I suppose you can IPO that gateway to be the first company in the asset exchange. Of course it is going to be an important company. I am just saying that the Nxt asset exchange is much bigger than just an usd/ nxt gateway. There are many more businesses that could make IPO and list in Nxt asset exchange.

I think someone should really thing right now about how to operate an usd/ nxt if you are an owner. It is not going to be easy since you have to able able to convert usd/ nxt at will for anyone who ask. It is easier and less risky to operate a btc/ nxt exchange.  Remember in nxt asset excahnge, we are dealing with real assets not the kind of pseudo- indicators as in Bitshare community envisions

I understand why BCnext has to be anonymous.

I edited my post....1st IPO should be BTC/NXT.....the reason is this gateway won't fail and it will stablize the system and give stable returns.


other IPO would be more risky....so we gotta start with less risky companies until the exchange develops further.




You have to think about how it is going to work. Just because someone says this gateway is not going to fall does not mean it is not going to fall. Nothing gives you a stable return unless you take a certain amount of risk.

It would be the only channel to exchange BTC/NXT or NXT/BTC on the Nxt Exchange....and the shares would be a new source of liquidity....another source of income parallel to mining.



It is not free market and decentralization. Everyone should be free to open an exchange if they can persuade the economy to trust them.

Secondly, your model is flawed economically. Nothing can guarantee you a certain rate of exchange between Nxt/ Btc.   

Not the rate of exchange....the BTC/Nxt Gateway charges a simple/set service fee....the total service fees collected....would then be divided at the end of the month and send to those accounts holding BTC/NXT shares/tokens.....based on the percentage of their holdings

Who controls the account holding Nxt ? who controls the account holding Btc ? Who making the transfer upon a request ? Still one individual need to step up to do that task. He can use his own btc/ nxt account or he can mobilize nxt/ bct from other to make a partnership. That's a business decision.

But other people should also be free to do the same. Who we are to impose the rule of one exchange ? isn't it monopoly ?

It will be automatic....no need for individuals...its needs to be decentralized.....the company is publicly owned.....the person who codes this 1st get to make a cut during IPO....a reward for their hard work.




The issue is that the gateway can run out of Btc or Nxt. You can never be sure of that. Nxt and Bct are individual asetts you can't force people to send their assets to the gateway. You have to consider the possibility of the gateway going bankrupt and being delisted


the gateway runs on the network it has no profit or loss....it just collect fees and divids them based on who owns the percentages of the share say at 12 am on the 1st day of the month Shanghai time.

if no fees are collected nothing is paid out


I dont think you understand the business of running an exchange. Please read more first.

Guys, why do u quote so much text? Remember, all this will be included into the Bible 2.0, let's save some trees...
gbeirn
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December 26, 2013, 03:36:41 PM
 #8584

To anyone running non-hallmarked nodes that would like to:

Please post here and I will seed you some NXT to make it happen.

I have set up a public node with 2G RAM.

I am at home and using home wifi connection, and my service provider can't give me static IP, so how to public and hallmarked my node?



I am not sure with a dynamic IP address, did anyone every figure out something for this?

NXT VPS Server Donations can be sent here: 6044921191674841550
At the end of each month I will donate some of them back to the community.
This is separate from my main wallet so you can keep track of them. I will keep them in there and only use them for hosting.
Damelon
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December 26, 2013, 03:37:02 PM
 #8585

If the only thing needed to access an address is the password, what would happen if more than 1 addresses have the same password?

Can´t happen.
Can happen with extremely low probability, system'll give u warning, if I correct. Not same passphrases (1 phrase unlock 1 account), but equal hases (account id) to both phrases.

I stand corrected  Grin

Member of the Nxt Foundation | Donations: NXT-D6K7-MLY6-98FM-FLL5T
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gbeirn
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December 26, 2013, 03:37:42 PM
 #8586

I think a better idea would be to IPO the service providers/gateways


for example: USD/NXT gateway could issue Nxt in IPO....people can buy a share of the company and get a monthly dividence of nxt based on there holdings.


BCNext
Member

Re: [ANN] Nxt :: descendant of Bitcoin
November 08, 2013, 07:59:19 AM
Reply with quote  #446
It is real.

Here is an example

I want to run a business.  I issue an asset (let's call it Krusty Krab tokens - KKT).  I set quantity of KKT to 1000.  I announce that I sell KKT for 20 NXT each and pay 5 NXT monthly interest within next 6 months.  I create an ask order -- 1000 KKT for 20,000 NXT.  You create a transaction that sends me 500 NXT for 25 KKT.  It's up to you what to do with your 25 KKT (you can place an ask order and sell them for 27 NXT) but each month I will check the blockchain to see who owns KKT.  And I will send 5 NXT for each KKT to those who owns them. 




Of course we want a usd/ Nxt gateway. But I fail to understand why it is so important. Soon you can sell/ buy Nxt at Btc-e, Bitstamp in both usd, bct and multiple other exchanges. They are centralized but have already worked so far and have certain trust of the communities.

What is truly innovative and disruptive about the Nxt asset exchange is to give internet start-up a direct way of raising money and growing their business in global scale.

A NXT/USD gateway in the Nxt exchange would represent something like Chase Manhattan in the real world but decentralized....it would be profitable from day one cuz all USD/NXT transactions go thru it.




I suppose you can IPO that gateway to be the first company in the asset exchange. Of course it is going to be an important company. I am just saying that the Nxt asset exchange is much bigger than just an usd/ nxt gateway. There are many more businesses that could make IPO and list in Nxt asset exchange.

I think someone should really thing right now about how to operate an usd/ nxt if you are an owner. It is not going to be easy since you have to able able to convert usd/ nxt at will for anyone who ask. It is easier and less risky to operate a btc/ nxt exchange.  Remember in nxt asset excahnge, we are dealing with real assets not the kind of pseudo- indicators as in Bitshare community envisions

I understand why BCnext has to be anonymous.

I edited my post....1st IPO should be BTC/NXT.....the reason is this gateway won't fail and it will stablize the system and give stable returns.


other IPO would be more risky....so we gotta start with less risky companies until the exchange develops further.




You have to think about how it is going to work. Just because someone says this gateway is not going to fall does not mean it is not going to fall. Nothing gives you a stable return unless you take a certain amount of risk.

It would be the only channel to exchange BTC/NXT or NXT/BTC on the Nxt Exchange....and the shares would be a new source of liquidity....another source of income parallel to mining.



It is not free market and decentralization. Everyone should be free to open an exchange if they can persuade the economy to trust them.

Secondly, your model is flawed economically. Nothing can guarantee you a certain rate of exchange between Nxt/ Btc.   

Not the rate of exchange....the BTC/Nxt Gateway charges a simple/set service fee....the total service fees collected....would then be divided at the end of the month and send to those accounts holding BTC/NXT shares/tokens.....based on the percentage of their holdings

Who controls the account holding Nxt ? who controls the account holding Btc ? Who making the transfer upon a request ? Still one individual need to step up to do that task. He can use his own btc/ nxt account or he can mobilize nxt/ bct from other to make a partnership. That's a business decision.

But other people should also be free to do the same. Who we are to impose the rule of one exchange ? isn't it monopoly ?

It will be automatic....no need for individuals...its needs to be decentralized.....the company is publicly owned.....the person who codes this 1st get to make a cut during IPO....a reward for their hard work.




The issue is that the gateway can run out of Btc or Nxt. You can never be sure of that. Nxt and Bct are individual asetts you can't force people to send their assets to the gateway. You have to consider the possibility of the gateway going bankrupt and being delisted


the gateway runs on the network it has no profit or loss....it just collect fees and divids them based on who owns the percentages of the share say at 12 am on the 1st day of the month Shanghai time.

if no fees are collected nothing is paid out


I dont think you understand the business of running an exchange. Please read more first.

Guys, why do u quote so much text? Remember, all this will be included into the Bible 2.0, let's save some trees...

I think you mean electrons Wink Won't someone think of the electrons!

NXT VPS Server Donations can be sent here: 6044921191674841550
At the end of each month I will donate some of them back to the community.
This is separate from my main wallet so you can keep track of them. I will keep them in there and only use them for hosting.
laowai80
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December 26, 2013, 03:38:21 PM
 #8587

To anyone running non-hallmarked nodes that would like to:

Please post here and I will seed you some NXT to make it happen.

I have set up a public node with 2G RAM.

I am at home and using home wifi connection, and my service provider can't give me static IP, so how to public and hallmarked my node?



I am not sure with a dynamic IP address, did anyone every figure out something for this?

Try to set it up on a dynamic dns service, and tell us if it reliably works.

http://freedns.afraid.org/
http://www.noip.com/
rickyjames
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December 26, 2013, 03:39:04 PM
 #8588

Is it worth to run a node with around 1000 Nxt? Will I be able to forge anything thats worth it?

Yes, u'll be earning 0.0001% of all fees.

Another way of saying this is that if you run a forging node with 1000 NXT, you will earn only 1 NXT for every 1 million NXTs that are charged as fees.  Thus you will "double" your 1000 NXT initial forging stake only when THE ENTIRE AMOUNT OF AVAILABLE NXT has cycled through once not as transactions, but FEES.

Maybe it's just me, but I gotta say that forging does not seem to be a very good motivation for running a node.

Yep, you should just buy $1000s of dollars of specialized equipment that can never be used for anything else and consumes a ton of power and mine bitcoins.

Ha ha ha.  Here's some reading material for you:

http://www.drdouggreen.com/wp-content/Propaganda.pdf
http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/1964:fourteen-propaganda-techniques-fox-news-uses-to-brainwash-americans

Comparing something bad with something worse doesn't make the original thing less bad.  

NXT nodes are needed to make NXT strong.  Those nodes are only going to be stood up by people motivated to do so.  I repeat my contention that forging does not seen to be a strong motivator for setting up NXT nodes when examined closely.  This could be a problem.   This forum exists to address to problems.

Me going out and buying Bitcoin ASICs as you suggest does not address the problem I identify.  Keep thinking, maybe you can come up with a better idea.
newcn
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December 26, 2013, 03:40:43 PM
 #8589

Newcn,

The simplegateway doesnt need you to create any special account, you can use your existing wallet
It is a modal page, so if you have it set to deposit, it will ask for your ripple address, if withdraw your coin address

To everyone suffering from dgex outages, I would like to make proposal
I would like to complete development of tradiing page asap so that between now and availability of peer to peer xchange, we will have distributed wxchange using ripple network. There are more than just ripple's servers and with google as a backer, let the ddosers go up against the distributed ripple network

Maybe after end of jan, nobody will want to use our exchange, so this is a big risk for us. I think that even after peer to peer xchange is in nxt, there will still be a lot of people who will want to get some fiat, we all have to buy groceries somehow. We already have usd gateway so you can convert btc/nxt to usd

Ripple is also very popular in china and this could provide an easy path for Chinese investors

I think the next six weeks are critical and having a stable way to trade nxt is strategically important, i am hoping to get significant founder support

I want to provide nxt exchange with commissions of 0, fees of 0, deposit fee of 0, withdrawal fee of zero
We believe enough in nxt future to pay for our expenses from forging revenues.

I hope the community will see the value that a totally frictionless trading for nxt will do.

There is no such place for btc anymore, btc china used to be that way and got to $100 mil volume/day

All i need is a big enough bounty to pay for development costs and nxt will always be able to trade nxt without any fees, no withdrawal fees, automated deposit and withddrawal

James


Hi,
   thank you for your reply.
I've been exchanging CNY inside ripple,
Is your platform different from that?
for I did not see nxt-related exchange in ripple's TRADE page.
I need more instructions. you can put it in your webpage

BTC:1NzzfeHCgN8fF6mSG1UeBFCVd2cxKbGyHk
NXT:13187911577562526278
landomata
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December 26, 2013, 03:40:48 PM
 #8590

Ripple is No. 2 on Coinmarketcap  Shocked

gbeirn
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December 26, 2013, 03:41:18 PM
 #8591

To anyone running non-hallmarked nodes that would like to:

Please post here and I will seed you some NXT to make it happen.

I have set up a public node with 2G RAM.

I am at home and using home wifi connection, and my service provider can't give me static IP, so how to public and hallmarked my node?



I am not sure with a dynamic IP address, did anyone every figure out something for this?

Try to set it up on a dynamic dns service, and tell us if it reliably works.

http://freedns.afraid.org/
http://www.noip.com/

Well no the problem is the IP address must be used to create the hallmark. This would help for a well-known peer.

NXT VPS Server Donations can be sent here: 6044921191674841550
At the end of each month I will donate some of them back to the community.
This is separate from my main wallet so you can keep track of them. I will keep them in there and only use them for hosting.
EmoneyRu
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December 26, 2013, 03:42:39 PM
 #8592

Hi all, I'd like share a little script that solve the unexpected quit problem:

Quote
#!/bin/sh
while true
do
        pidof java
        if [ $? -gt 0 ]; then
                echo "Restart process " >> /tmp/nxt_restart.log
                java  -Xms700m -Xmx900m -jar start.jar
        else
                sleep 5
        fi
done

you may need adjust the mem parameter accordingly

I'd like to repeat my solution with cron

laowai80
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December 26, 2013, 03:42:43 PM
 #8593


Try to set it up on a dynamic dns service, and tell us if it reliably works.

http://freedns.afraid.org/
http://www.noip.com/

Well no the problem is the IP address must be used to create the hallmark. This would help for a well-known peer.
[/quote]

You can put the domain in the hallmark generation form,
and set the domain in the MyAddress parameter, no?
ZeroTheGreat
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December 26, 2013, 03:43:14 PM
 #8594

I know that it's very unlikely to use the same long password in 2 different addresses, but the problem is that someone could just spam different passwords and randomly hit some existing addresses.
Bruteforcing can destroy any cryptosystem. But for now it takes (for all imaginable potential attackers) too much time to be real threat. Much easier track you, hack into your computer/safe/head and steal pass instead of trying to combinate it step-by-step from zero.
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December 26, 2013, 03:43:30 PM
 #8595

Is it worth to run a node with around 1000 Nxt? Will I be able to forge anything thats worth it?

Yes, u'll be earning 0.0001% of all fees.

Another way of saying this is that if you run a forging node with 1000 NXT, you will earn only 1 NXT for every 1 million NXTs that are charged as fees.  Thus you will "double" your 1000 NXT initial forging stake only when THE ENTIRE AMOUNT OF AVAILABLE NXT has cycled through once not as transactions, but FEES.

Maybe it's just me, but I gotta say that forging does not seem to be a very good motivation for running a node.

Yep, you should just buy $1000s of dollars of specialized equipment that can never be used for anything else and consumes a ton of power and mine bitcoins.

Ha ha ha.  Here's some reading material for you:

http://www.drdouggreen.com/wp-content/Propaganda.pdf
http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/1964:fourteen-propaganda-techniques-fox-news-uses-to-brainwash-americans

Comparing something bad with something worse doesn't make the original thing less bad.  

NXT nodes are needed to make NXT strong.  Those nodes are only going to be stood up by people motivated to do so.  I repeat my contention that forging does not seen to be a strong motivator for setting up NXT nodes when examined closely.  This could be a problem.   This forum exists to address to problems.

Me going out and buying Bitcoin ASICs as you suggest does not address the problem I identify.  Keep thinking, maybe you can come up with a better idea.

This was sort of tounge-in-cheek. One could easily create a NXT pool similar to other currencies. Everyone pools their NXT together into one account to increase what they could forage alone. Requires extreme trust in the pool operator however.

NXT VPS Server Donations can be sent here: 6044921191674841550
At the end of each month I will donate some of them back to the community.
This is separate from my main wallet so you can keep track of them. I will keep them in there and only use them for hosting.
Come-from-Beyond
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December 26, 2013, 03:43:59 PM
 #8596

I am at home and using home wifi connection, and my service provider can't give me static IP, so how to public and hallmarked my node?

U can't atm.
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December 26, 2013, 03:44:30 PM
 #8597


Try to set it up on a dynamic dns service, and tell us if it reliably works.

http://freedns.afraid.org/
http://www.noip.com/

Well no the problem is the IP address must be used to create the hallmark. This would help for a well-known peer.

You can put the domain in the hallmark generation form,
and set the domain in the MyAddress parameter, no?
[/quote]

Hmmm, can you? I never tried that. I assumed it had to be a IP address not a FQDN

NXT VPS Server Donations can be sent here: 6044921191674841550
At the end of each month I will donate some of them back to the community.
This is separate from my main wallet so you can keep track of them. I will keep them in there and only use them for hosting.
Come-from-Beyond
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December 26, 2013, 03:45:10 PM
 #8598

Sorry, CfB, can you add constantly link to the last or recommended version to your first post in this thread? Wikll be much easier find it inside topic in this case.

I can't, I'm not the topic starter.
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December 26, 2013, 03:45:52 PM
 #8599

CfB, how is the decentralised exchange testing going?

We've done with testing. Now all depends on when nexern completes his client.

yes, working on the client prototype and i am more than confident we have not
only the asset exchange until end next month. i would like to spend more time
on the client but i have to clear and finish some explorer issues before. don't like
to leave the explorer in an bad shape when starting fulltime with the client.
preparing a complete roadmap this weekend and post it here. some feedback would
be nice what additional features we like to see already integrated right from start.


Hi nexern. Are you considering listing your blockchain explorer company in the asset exchange ? we need some credible assets at first and I can' think of any better example.
I am going to buy your first share.

this is a nice idea indeed but blockexplorer can't pay any dividends to investors, so it wouldn't make sense.
while i understand, that many portals are in needs to placing banner-adds to generate some income, i wouldn't
because 1. the hosting is already payed for +1 year by donations and 2. i am not a big fan of blinki-blinki pages,
while searching for important informations ;-)

btw. i have checked a possible client arm port again but i have to say this is not possible within the next 3 months.
the gui/render engine would need a partially rewrite which needs to much time. perhaps something like sencha/phonegap?
would be good for this if quickly needed but i have not sufficient mobil-dev experience to built this in high quality.
perhaps some good ios developer could take a look at this but the native client will run for sure on win/mac/nix
out of the box as announced before.
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December 26, 2013, 03:47:09 PM
 #8600

Hmmm, can you? I never tried that. I assumed it had to be a IP address not a FQDN

yeah, it'll work. but the IP resolved by the dynamic dns must still be visible to the world, must not be behind NAT/router.
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