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Author Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information  (Read 2761604 times)
swartzfeger
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January 11, 2014, 12:42:44 PM
 #16801

Shanghai Tower is epic  Smiley

I can have it reviewed/fixed in about 15 hours if you don't find any help sooner.

Thanks waffle, your help is appreciated! 15 hours is fine.
mnightwaffle
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January 11, 2014, 12:46:33 PM
 #16802

Shanghai Tower is epic  Smiley

I can have it reviewed/fixed in about 15 hours if you don't find any help sooner.

Thanks waffle, your help is appreciated! 15 hours is fine.
k no problem, I'll get back to you then.
salsacz
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January 11, 2014, 12:48:27 PM
 #16803

I ask members who are against voting system to look at all the polls we have been having lately & honestly I don;t think the number will decrease as we more forward.


So a voting system is definitely required....the sooner the better.


A portion of the community funds should be spent for this ASAP!



Well, I have doubts that the voting system 1 NXT = 1 voice is the right choice. Vote system per se is not bad. Just don't know how this should work. Voting here is at least 1 user = 1 voice (approx.)

there is already one cheater who created 70 Nxt accounts and 70 nextcoin.org accounts and by begging he gathered 35.000 Nxt...
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January 11, 2014, 12:48:39 PM
 #16804

I just posted a proposal to fix the account number typo-problem over at the official forums:
https://forums.nxtcrypto.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=524 <- making NXT account numbers awesome!

What do you think about that?

Looks cool. I would like to see some comment from CFB to make sure we don't interfere with some unrevealed feature, but then, I'll add it to Solaris.

Other client developers checking in?


I absolutely cast my vote for using a standardized Reed Solomon NXT account number all beginning with N containing the characters 2-9, A-Z while dropping the use of 0 and O and 1 and I. Adding just an N in front to denote "NXT" is a half measure. I think we should go for bold branding and have the first three characters of every address always be "NXT" so non-users recognize it and eventually become converts. This would bring the total length to exactly 20 characters, which can be either four groups of five separated by dashes, or five groups of four. I personally prefer the latter.  It isolates the RS correction data as the last block.
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January 11, 2014, 12:50:47 PM
 #16805

I just posted a proposal to fix the account number typo-problem over at the official forums:
https://forums.nxtcrypto.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=524 <- making NXT account numbers awesome!

What do you think about that?

Looks cool. I would like to see some comment from CFB to make sure we don't interfere with some unrevealed feature, but then, I'll add it to Solaris.

Other client developers checking in?


I absolutely cast my vote for using a standardized Reed Solomon NXT account number all beginning with N containing the characters 2-9, A-Z while dropping the use of 0 and O and 1 and I. Adding just an N in front to denote "NXT" is a half measure. I think we should go for bold branding and have the first three characters of every address always be "NXT" so non-users recognize it and eventually become converts. This would bring the total length to exactly 20 characters, which can be either four groups of five separated by dashes, or five groups of four. I personally prefer the latter.

it would be good marketing

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January 11, 2014, 12:53:07 PM
 #16806

Gang,

Would appreciate Chinese speakers looking this over for errors. Also, I know nothing about leading/kerning/spacing with Chinese characters and what's appropriate.



Also, full-size PDF is here

EDIT: sorry, forgot to credit Miramare from the nextcoin.org forum for supplying Chinese text.
Great,but where is the building in China or other country?

 
                                . ██████████.
                              .████████████████.
                           .██████████████████████.
                        -█████████████████████████████
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                  -█████████████████████████████████████████
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        .████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
       .██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
       .██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
       ..████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████..
       .   .██████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
       .      .████████████████████████████████████████████████.

       .       .██████████████████████████████████████████████
       .    ██████████████████████████████████████████████████████
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.CryptoTalk.org.|.MAKE POSTS AND EARN BTC!.🏆
mnightwaffle
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January 11, 2014, 01:04:13 PM
 #16807

^ http://goo.gl/maps/zHNo6

night all
mcjavar
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January 11, 2014, 01:15:07 PM
 #16808


When do we open an office in there? Tongue
landomata
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January 11, 2014, 01:16:32 PM
 #16809

Second Gen coin from the co-founder of bitcoinmagazine


I took this small portion from the below article:

Ethereum: A Turing-Complete Cryptocurrency
http://www.tuicool.com/articles/6BnUbu


"Here is where we get to the actually interesting part of the Ethereum protocol. In Ethereum, there are actually two types of entities that can generate and receive transactions: actual people (or bots, as cryptographic protocols cannot distinguish between the two) and contracts. A contract is essentially an automated agent that lives on the Ethereum network, has an Ethereum address and balance, and can send and receive transactions. A contract is "activated" every time someone sends a transaction to it, at which point it runs its code, perhaps modifying its internal state or even sending some transactions, and then shuts down. The "code" for a contract is written in a special-purpose low-level language consisting of a stack, which is not persistent, and 2^256 memory entries, which constitute the contract's permanent state. Note that Ethereum users will not need to code in this low-level stack language; we will provide a simple C-like language with variables, expressions, conditionals and while loops, and provide a compiler down to Ethereum code"


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January 11, 2014, 01:21:26 PM
 #16810

I ask members who are against voting system to look at all the polls we have been having lately & honestly I don;t think the number will decrease as we more forward.


So a voting system is definitely required....the sooner the better.


A portion of the community funds should be spent for this ASAP!



before spending coins, how should the voting system work, lets also discus this on the fora.

- vote per account
- vote per coin
- pay for vote % of owend coins?
- etc...

My idea is that it should be 1 vote = 1 account.

What is the point of having a voting system , if it is connected to your total coins?
That's even dirtier than the election process in 3rd world failed states.

I could have a million votes with a million coins and still overvote 1 million account holders.
That is not a representative system, definately not a fair system , if voting is to be implemented based on total amount of coins in an account.

1PeecNu1J8VNKpgR13nasMZWLcMZrwNJfc
marcus03
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January 11, 2014, 01:27:43 PM
 #16811

I just posted a proposal to fix the account number typo-problem over at the official forums:
https://forums.nxtcrypto.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=524 <- making NXT account numbers awesome!

What do you think about that?

Looks cool. I would like to see some comment from CFB to make sure we don't interfere with some unrevealed feature, but then, I'll add it to Solaris.

Other client developers checking in?


I absolutely cast my vote for using a standardized Reed Solomon NXT account number all beginning with N containing the characters 2-9, A-Z while dropping the use of 0 and O and 1 and I. Adding just an N in front to denote "NXT" is a half measure. I think we should go for bold branding and have the first three characters of every address always be "NXT" so non-users recognize it and eventually become converts. This would bring the total length to exactly 20 characters, which can be either four groups of five separated by dashes, or five groups of four. I personally prefer the latter.  It isolates the RS correction data as the last block.

As far as I can see, we need a 64 characters alphabet, so if we drop 0, O, l and 1, we need 4 others. Let's do the further discussion in the OP's thread:

https://forums.nxtcrypto.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=524

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January 11, 2014, 01:33:05 PM
 #16812

I ask members who are against voting system to look at all the polls we have been having lately & honestly I don;t think the number will decrease as we more forward.


So a voting system is definitely required....the sooner the better.


A portion of the community funds should be spent for this ASAP!



before spending coins, how should the voting system work, lets also discus this on the fora.

- vote per account
- vote per coin
- pay for vote % of owend coins?
- etc...

My idea is that it should be 1 vote = 1 account.

What is the point of having a voting system , if it is connected to your total coins?
That's even dirtier than the election process in 3rd world failed states.

I could have a million votes with a million coins and still overvote 1 million account holders.
That is not a representative system, definately not a fair system , if voting is to be implemented based on total amount of coins in an account.

Its the exact same as in a publicy traded company....vote by shares.

Nxt is an enterprise....if you want more votes then buy more nxt....the shareholder who has 1% of shares cannot outvote the shareholder who has 51% of the shares.

Edit: I doubt the shareholder with 51% of shares will undertake actions which would see him lose that stake.

Same thing in Nxt.....I doubt a large stakeholder would do something stupid that jeopardize his/her stake.


BOTH ARE REAL WEALTH....a Large stakeholder has alot more to lose than a small stakeholder so the system will naturally balance itself....the stock market/publicly traded companies have survives on these principles for 300 years.


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January 11, 2014, 01:40:55 PM
 #16813


My idea is that it should be 1 vote = 1 account.

What is the point of having a voting system , if it is connected to your total coins?
That's even dirtier than the election process in 3rd world failed states.

I could have a million votes with a million coins and still overvote 1 million account holders.
That is not a representative system, definately not a fair system , if voting is to be implemented based on total amount of coins in an account.

I thought also like you but developers pointed out that this is not possible
because otherwise you have to register the identity of each user to avoid
multiple votes from a singe person and this is not possible in decentralized system.
Therefore the idea of voting based on money supply "payed vote" with redistribution of the
funds to low stack accounts sounds logical to me but
also I see in this system there can also be flaws.

1) big stake holder could vote to not redistribute money that has been invested
in voting process or
2) big stake holder can create a lots of fake accounts with small stakes to get back the majority
of the money invested into voting.

Related to 3rd world states:
the situation with elections and voting is not so much different neither in so called
developed countries.
There is a system in place which says 1 person = 1 vote but the problem here
is you have "representatives" of the people which after they come to power
do always the opposite of what they have preached before elections Wink


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January 11, 2014, 01:41:58 PM
 #16814

Its the exact same as in a publicy traded company....vote by shares. Nxt is an enterprise....if you want more votes then buy more nxt....the shareholder who has 1% of shares cannot outvote the shareholder who has 51% of the shares.

From what 've seen so far, it's been called an open decentralised p2p currency, a feature-full service, even an idea.
Now it's also an enterprise?
this is getting even more complicated hehe. Here's one from me!

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January 11, 2014, 01:45:36 PM
 #16815

Its the exact same as in a publicy traded company....vote by shares. Nxt is an enterprise....if you want more votes then buy more nxt....the shareholder who has 1% of shares cannot outvote the shareholder who has 51% of the shares.

From what 've seen so far, it's been called an open decentralised p2p currency, a feature-full service, even an idea.
Now it's also an enterprise?
this is getting even more complicated hehe. Here's one from me!
 

Nxt is an enterprise in the sense that to obtain Nxt you must buy them....as   each Nxt has value.

And each Nxter is a stakeholder once he owns 1 nxt.


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January 11, 2014, 01:49:24 PM
 #16816

the stock market/publicly traded companies have survives on these principles for 300 years.

Yes, they have, for longer than 300 years actually, but not because of voting.
Stock market/traded companies do not rely on democratic, or open principles.
Voting is completely irrelevant with that. Sounds a bit like doublespeak actually:

If voting is not implemented in a way that would account for account-holders and not for coin value
there is absolutely no point in voting.

That is actually why you only get 50 votes out of 10.000 said accounts.

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yan83
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January 11, 2014, 01:50:37 PM
 #16817

And each Nxter is a stakeholder once he owns 1 nxt.
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January 11, 2014, 01:58:20 PM
 #16818

And each Nxter is a stakeholder once he owns 1 nxt.

Yes, he is. Only if he only has one vote, and i have a mil of them, there is no point for the 1 nxt stakeholder to take part and engage the conversation, or poll, or vote.

Unless we are talking about a way to push people AWAY from taking a stand. Then 1 coin = 1 vote is super!

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January 11, 2014, 02:16:23 PM
 #16819

I'd prefer sticking with curve25519 for messages.
The public keys are already in the protocol, so you don't need to transamit new ones, it's save, it's easy because you have all the dependencies already there, and it fits the problem perfectly...

I'd like to remind that each session should use a unique key-pair to avoid known-plaintext attacks.

This is not trival task, sending a public key every time over the network for every message should be enough protected against MITM + protection against PRIVACY LOOKUP ANALYSIS (PROFILING) + many other things.

[!] 24.7 NXT News Portal. Real-Time Update. Share your own news with NXT community and get FREE NXT!
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January 11, 2014, 02:20:14 PM
Last edit: January 11, 2014, 05:42:42 PM by rickyjames
 #16820

I just posted a proposal to fix the account number typo-problem over at the official forums:
https://forums.nxtcrypto.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=524 <- making NXT account numbers awesome!

What do you think about that?

Looks cool. I would like to see some comment from CFB to make sure we don't interfere with some unrevealed feature, but then, I'll add it to Solaris.

Other client developers checking in?


I absolutely cast my vote for using a standardized Reed Solomon NXT account number all beginning with N containing the characters 2-9, A-Z while dropping the use of 0 and O and 1 and I. Adding just an N in front to denote "NXT" is a half measure. I think we should go for bold branding and have the first three characters of every address always be "NXT" so non-users recognize it and eventually become converts. This would bring the total length to exactly 20 characters, which can be either four groups of five separated by dashes, or five groups of four. I personally prefer the latter.

it would be good marketing

As long as we are establishing some standardized user-friendly methodology here for the non-geek common man or woman, I'd like to go ahead and document in the forum another idea I've had along this line.  

If NXT is going to succeed, it is going to succeed because the average person worldwide starts using NXT via their cellphone.  

Let me say that again.

If NXT is going to succeed, it is going to succeed because the average person worldwide starts using NXT via their cellphone.

The last thing a person with a cellphone is going to do is sit there and type in a 50 digit uppercase-lowercase password to buy a candy bar with NXT.  

Let me say that again.

The last thing a person with a cellphone is going to do is sit there and type in a 50 digit uppercase-lowercase password to buy a candy bar with NXT.  

So at some point between the geeks dreaming this stuff up and the average joe using it, there is going to be the creation of a user-friendly surrogate password method that is easier to use, just like the user-friendly surrogate account number method being brilliantly addressed by this Reed Solomon thread.

My proposed solution is a centralized (gasp - ha ha ha) trusted authority (just like the centralized trusted authority that manufactures and mails credit cards today) that manufactures sets of matching metal medallions sold in a tamperproof blister pack to everyday average people.  They can buy them at the convenience store next to the cigarettes and the condoms.   Heck, we might even give them away for free.  Opening this blister pack lets them instantly create a NXT account on their cellphone.

As an aside, this person has just opened an NXT bank account at the same time he bought those condoms.  Opening a bank account is a big deal and getting harder and harder for more and more people to do.   Bank accounts in a box for the lower middle class are a booming business - see "Bluebird" from AmEx and Walmart here in America: https://www.bluebird.com/?SOLID=BBSEMITS .  There's still time for NXT to get in this game on the ground level...

Anyway, on these NXT metal medallions are QR codes purchasers scan with their phone.

Scanning the first medallion QR brings up an NXT client install package from Google Play or the Apple App store.  The user runs this.

Once the client is installed on the phone, the user runs the NXT client for the first time and scans the second metal medallion QR.  This loads the fresh client with a user account code - the same 20 character user code discussed above, which is also stamped on the back of the second medallion in human readable form.

The user puts the third NXT metal medallion on their keychain along with their key to their house / apartment and the key to their car.  (Or in Africa, the padlock to their bicycle.  Whatever).  This medallion has a QR code containing the 50 character passcode for the account they've loaded in their cellphone.  When they want to buy that candy bar, they scan the vendor's account medallion QR, then they scan their passcode medallion QR on their keychain.  Boom.  They've bought a candy bar, NXT has conquered the world.

They lose their cellphone, no problem, the passcode medallion is still on their keychain and their NXT is safe.  When they get a new cellphone, they rescan their original two medallions and they are back back up and running as an NXT user.

They lose their keys, or a purse containing both their cellphone and their keys, they've got a problem.  Whoever finds the keychain can use the medallion on the keychain to empty their NXT account once they read / decode its QR code and get to a desktop computer with a NXT client - or enter a home they're not supposed to be in, or steal a vehicle, or run up a tab on a stolen credit card.  Hey, it's a bitch to lose your keys or purse.

This is why when they bought the original blister pack in the convenience store, there was a second passcode medallion in it.  They have stored this second passcode medallion along with the user account number medallion in the safety of a home hiding place.   If they lose their keychain or purse, along with changing the locks on their home or canceling their credit card, they have to go to the convenience store and buy another NXT blister pack with a new set of NXT medallions.   They run the "emergency total funds transfer" option on their cellphone client by scanning first the original spare passcode medallion, then the replacement user account medallion.  As long as they do this before a bandit finds and uses their lost keychain passcode medallion, they're OK.  Hey, that's better than losing the cash in their purse - it's gone instantly!  Use NXT instead of cash, common folks, it's cheaper than a credit card (psst - "cash back" is a total scam!!!) and unlike cash you've got a shot at transferring NXT to safety if it's lost or stolen!

People will buy into this scenario because it so closely matches what their current situation is on using and protecting their credit cards, which is a widely understood protocol.  The big difference is that credit card companies will not hold them liable for losses on a stolen credit card - those losses are passed on to all credit card users in the form of higher fees and interest rates.  With NXT, you are all on your own, and nothing can change that.  Better hope you scan a new medallion to transfer your funds to safety before somebody else scans your lost or stolen medallion and takes all your NXT.

This whole scenario depends on a centralized (boo! hiss!) trusted source of the metal medallions - jut like there is currently a central trusted authority that manufactures and mails valid credit cards that get activated over the phone.  That manufacturer has got to have iron clad security ensuring that only one set of medallions are produced that go into one blister pack, with no duplicates or records of what passcodes were generated.   And for this scheme to work, people buying the blister packs on the street (the 50-90% of people in the world who aren't going to sit down in front of a computer and generate their own 50 character passcode in a random and secure manner) have got to trust that.

Which leads to the whole subject of scammers counterfeiting the blister packs and monitoring accounts they've created until somebody loads it with NXT for them to steal.   I don't have all the answers, here.  I think the correct answer is that the success and utility and usefulness of the mobile phone NXT system is so great overcomes the distraction of the inevitable but hopefully small vultures that prey on its outskirts and perimeter.  [EDITED TO ADD: I guess an obvious measure to counterfeiting medallions would be for an offical client downloaded from a trusted source like Apple APP Store or Google Play to verify that a loaded user account number was on a pre-authorized list coordinated with the medallion manufacturer.  Then you "only" have to monitor the App Store or Google Play to see that no rouge clients got uploaded as part of a fake medallion scam...]

So - metal NXT medallions sold in blisterpacks to the 50-90% of the world with a cellphone who will never sit down at a computer and create their own 50 character passcode securely and randomly.  That's my concept.  If you think it's unworkable, then I ask you:

How can people with cellphones buy a candy bar with NXT?
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