Bitmain launches the Z9 Equihash miner

[whoismoses]

My point about about Asics not killing GPU mining and Vitalik "Super out of touch" Buterin killing GPU mining is this...

I acknowledge I might have some math errors and not all cards mining ETH are RX 570/580 cards and I am simplifying things a bit. But I don't think my logic is flawed. I REALLY hope it is. So please... argue...

ETH currently has 266,000 GH. So that is equivalent of 8,866,666 RX 570/580 cards. Imagine if they went PoS. The current XMR network (500 MH or so) has about the what would equal 62,500 570/580 cards on it. So if let's say only 200,000 of those ETH cards when to XMR... XMR would be much less profitable to mine and you would still have 8,666,666 cards to still spread over other coins...

Continue this exercise with the next coin... and the next... and the next...

I realize that some miners will stay on ETH as the block reward will still be 0.6 ETH... so 20%... 1,773,333 570/580 cards.

[1715499922]

1715499922

[1715499922]

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[Longsnowsm]

At the end of the day neither the ASIC nor the moves by ETH to POS are friendly to GPU's.  ASIC's and GPU's are just tools to mining.  I don't find either one to be of a particular advantage and both have their issues.

Centralization of power on the network is just a fact.  Until other big players look at the value proposition and decide to full on compete with Bitmain we are stuck.  That is just the sad state of things.  We should count our lucky stars that Bitmain even sells these miners to be honest.  Image the nightmare of a company like Bitmain making and keeping in house all this mining power?  They would own the hashing power and control the networks. 

So while things suck they could suck a lot more. 

ETH going POS is going to cause a significant disruption.  I don't see how anyone could dispute that fact that everyone with GPU miners are going to be shifting all that ETH hash looking for something profitable to mine.  It is going to be ugly and just about the equivalent of Bitmain dumping a metric TON of D3's on the network. 

Bitmain could have and should use some judgement on the size of the hash power on a given algo and then decide how many miners they can release  and not destroy the network.  This is a GOD like power that they have right now and they have not used that power wisely.

ASIC's and GPU's are tools.  Choose the best tool for the job.  Anyone who has followed crypto's from the beginning will remember the same sky is falling uproar when people figured out how to leverage GPU's in the early days of mining.  The world was coming to an end then too...  This is an arms race.  If you want to be competitive and possibly make a little coin then you have to get on the treadmill and keep upgrading your arms. 

Devs deciding to fork coins and switch algo's will only be a temporary hindrance here for hardware mining tools.   This arms race is going to escalate.   

[heavyarms1912]

bitmain kill us

every day they do new ASIC

 that will kill our GPUS

and make the mining not profitable

so what we will with our rigs

all coin team must do hard fork to kill bitmain

 

This will never happen. You are better than those of the miners who bought asics? They have the same rights. I'm against asics, too, but it's a reality that needs to be recognized. Not cry? Buy yourself an asic or look for another algorithm to stay in this business. Money never gets easy.

If a coin is advertising ASIC resistance then the coin is not holding it's own promised feature.  They can't avoid ASICs but they can certainly keep it resistant every now and then.

[grchina]

At the end of the day neither the ASIC nor the moves by ETH to POS are friendly to GPU's.  ASIC's and GPU's are just tools to mining.  I don't find either one to be of a particular advantage and both have their issues.

Centralization of power on the network is just a fact.  Until other big players look at the value proposition and decide to full on compete with Bitmain we are stuck.  That is just the sad state of things.  We should count our lucky stars that Bitmain even sells these miners to be honest.  Image the nightmare of a company like Bitmain making and keeping in house all this mining power?  They would own the hashing power and control the networks. 

So while things suck they could suck a lot more. 

ETH going POS is going to cause a significant disruption.  I don't see how anyone could dispute that fact that everyone with GPU miners are going to be shifting all that ETH hash looking for something profitable to mine.  It is going to be ugly and just about the equivalent of Bitmain dumping a metric TON of D3's on the network. 

Bitmain could have and should use some judgement on the size of the hash power on a given algo and then decide how many miners they can release  and not destroy the network.  This is a GOD like power that they have right now and they have not used that power wisely.

ASIC's and GPU's are tools.  Choose the best tool for the job.  Anyone who has followed crypto's from the beginning will remember the same sky is falling uproar when people figured out how to leverage GPU's in the early days of mining.  The world was coming to an end then too...  This is an arms race.  If you want to be competitive and possibly make a little coin then you have to get on the treadmill and keep upgrading your arms. 

Devs deciding to fork coins and switch algo's will only be a temporary hindrance here for hardware mining tools.   This arms race is going to escalate.   

They have to sell those asics because of appereance of decentralisation(but not before they mine with them few months)because not would invest in a coin that is being controled by single company nore would the devs of that coin would like that

[lunobird]

Everyday I hear asic vs GPU. Bitmain evil. Everyone just needs to shut up and make your money. Nobody cares about your opinions. Profits is the only thing that matters in crypto.

[Marvell2]

My point about about Asics not killing GPU mining and Vitalik "Super out of touch" Buterin killing GPU mining is this...

I acknowledge I might have some math errors and not all cards mining ETH are RX 570/580 cards and I am simplifying things a bit. But I don't think my logic is flawed. I REALLY hope it is. So please... argue...

ETH currently has 266,000 GH. So that is equivalent of 8,866,666 RX 570/580 cards. Imagine if they went PoS. The current XMR network (500 MH or so) has about the what would equal 62,500 570/580 cards on it. So if let's say only 200,000 of those ETH cards when to XMR... XMR would be much less profitable to mine and you would still have 8,666,666 cards to still spread over other coins...

Continue this exercise with the next coin... and the next... and the next...

I realize that some miners will stay on ETH as the block reward will still be 0.6 ETH... so 20%... 1,773,333 570/580 cards.

I think u don’t understand, the bulk of that 266 th is asics at least a goid 70% same as monero
more maybe.  If bitmain is selling thier old E3. chips finally to the masses , especially at the inital $800 usd price they had is it just means they haave a new better ship for thier large friends and thier private farms.

the e3 sale is just a smoke screen to cover the fact they might well double that 266 th to 500th with their f3 miners
just watch

[whoismoses]

I think u don’t understand, the bulk of that 266 th is asics at least a goid 70% same as monero
more maybe.  If bitmain is selling thier old E3. chips finally to the masses , especially at the inital $800 usd price they had is it just means they haave a new better ship for thier large friends and thier private farms.

the e3 sale is just a smoke screen to cover the fact they might well double that 266 th to 500th with their f3 miners
just watch

That has nothing to do with what I said. And why is what you said so hard to understand?

[Marvell2]

I think u don’t understand, the bulk of that 266 th is asics at least a goid 70% same as monero
more maybe.  If bitmain is selling thier old E3. chips finally to the masses , especially at the inital $800 usd price they had is it just means they haave a new better ship for thier large friends and thier private farms.

the e3 sale is just a smoke screen to cover the fact they might well double that 266 th to 500th with their f3 miners
just watch

That has nothing to do with what I said. And why is what you said so hard to understand?

lol maybe because you’re retarded? My point is for the mentally deficient is your total numbers on gpus mining
eth that will need something else to mine are bogus.

9 million gpus mining eth? lol , more like 2 million or less, its sll asic hash, you started with a false premise
so I corrected you.

yes eth pos will affect GPU  mining profits but not nearly as much as you think becuase asics already are the bulk of the hash for cryptonite, lyra , equihash and dagger.

Asics on other newer algos is a far bigger threat than Eth pos

[rdluffy]

At the end of the day neither the ASIC nor the moves by ETH to POS are friendly to GPU's.  ASIC's and GPU's are just tools to mining.  I don't find either one to be of a particular advantage and both have their issues.

Centralization of power on the network is just a fact.  Until other big players look at the value proposition and decide to full on compete with Bitmain we are stuck.  That is just the sad state of things.  We should count our lucky stars that Bitmain even sells these miners to be honest.  Image the nightmare of a company like Bitmain making and keeping in house all this mining power?  They would own the hashing power and control the networks. 

So while things suck they could suck a lot more. 

ETH going POS is going to cause a significant disruption.  I don't see how anyone could dispute that fact that everyone with GPU miners are going to be shifting all that ETH hash looking for something profitable to mine.  It is going to be ugly and just about the equivalent of Bitmain dumping a metric TON of D3's on the network. 

Bitmain could have and should use some judgement on the size of the hash power on a given algo and then decide how many miners they can release  and not destroy the network.  This is a GOD like power that they have right now and they have not used that power wisely.

ASIC's and GPU's are tools.  Choose the best tool for the job.  Anyone who has followed crypto's from the beginning will remember the same sky is falling uproar when people figured out how to leverage GPU's in the early days of mining.  The world was coming to an end then too...  This is an arms race.  If you want to be competitive and possibly make a little coin then you have to get on the treadmill and keep upgrading your arms. 

Devs deciding to fork coins and switch algo's will only be a temporary hindrance here for hardware mining tools.   This arms race is going to escalate.   

But for a lot of miners and me included, the problem is not the end of GPU mining
If ETH goes to POS, it's fine, Devs already said that and ALL MINERS know that when we buy GPUs
But Asics?

Most of coins have on whitepapper something about being anti asics, asic proof etc
See the difference?

Jihan Wu and Bitmain are a cancer to cryptos, look, it`s not hard to came to this conclusion

[chadl2]

We decided to pick up the single Z9 we were allowed. Hoping zCash sticks with Equihash, but at least there are some other decent Equihash coins already existing.

Optimistic this thing won't be a paper weight like the X3 is.

[heavyarms1912]

Everyday I hear asic vs GPU. Bitmain evil. Everyone just needs to shut up and make your money. Nobody cares about your opinions. Profits is the only thing that matters in crypto.

The discussion revolves around sustained "profits"

[Mike011]

ETH currently has 266,000 GH. So that is equivalent of 8,866,666 RX 570/580 cards. Imagine if they went PoS. The current XMR network (500 MH or so) has about the what would equal 62,500 570/580 cards on it. So if let's say only 200,000 of those ETH cards when to XMR... XMR would be much less profitable to mine and you would still have 8,666,666 cards to still spread over other coins...

Well, not all of the miners will continue. Many will sell their rigs since profitability on other algos is not that great.

Until other big players look at the value proposition and decide to full on compete with Bitmain we are stuck.

Exactly. It seems however that it requires a lots of cash to develop and produce an asic chip. Buying off one of their top engineers would be the best option.

[Sandal_Hat]

My point about about Asics not killing GPU mining and Vitalik "Super out of touch" Buterin killing GPU mining is this...

I acknowledge I might have some math errors and not all cards mining ETH are RX 570/580 cards and I am simplifying things a bit. But I don't think my logic is flawed. I REALLY hope it is. So please... argue...

ETH currently has 266,000 GH. So that is equivalent of 8,866,666 RX 570/580 cards. Imagine if they went PoS. The current XMR network (500 MH or so) has about the what would equal 62,500 570/580 cards on it. So if let's say only 200,000 of those ETH cards when to XMR... XMR would be much less profitable to mine and you would still have 8,666,666 cards to still spread over other coins...

Continue this exercise with the next coin... and the next... and the next...

I realize that some miners will stay on ETH as the block reward will still be 0.6 ETH... so 20%... 1,773,333 570/580 cards.

I dont get what u mean by out of touch. Innovation occurs. Things change. Cant do much about it.
GPU is the past.  Horses were used in the past. Then, cars came. The problem with mining is that it is getting harder to breakeven these days.
I understand your pain. Buyers gotta hope no competitor comes up with a similar asic.

[whoismoses]

I dont get what u mean by out of touch. Innovation occurs. Things change. Cant do much about it.
GPU is the past.  Horses were used in the past. Then, cars came. The problem with mining is that it is getting harder to breakeven these days.
I understand your pain. Buyers gotta hope no competitor comes up with a similar asic.

I won't have pain. I broke even on my gpus long ago. Don't worry about me.

He is out of touch of touch related to...

1 - What shifting gpus off of ETH will do to other crypto. He has stated he doesn't think asic represents a significant portion of the network.
2 - If you have read about how they plan on implementing ETH PoS... On a scale of decentralization to centralization you have....
Decentralization---CPUs----GPUs----Asics----ETH PoS---Centralization

[Sandal_Hat]

I dont get what u mean by out of touch. Innovation occurs. Things change. Cant do much about it.
GPU is the past.  Horses were used in the past. Then, cars came. The problem with mining is that it is getting harder to breakeven these days.
I understand your pain. Buyers gotta hope no competitor comes up with a similar asic.

I won't have pain. I broke even on my gpus long ago. Don't worry about me.

He is out of touch of touch related to...

1 - What shifting gpus off of ETH will do to other crypto. He has stated he doesn't think asic represents a significant portion of the network.
2 - If you have read about how they plan on implementing ETH PoS... On a scale of decentralization to centralization you have....
Decentralization---CPUs----GPUs----Asics----ETH PoS---Centralization

Bitcoin litecoin dash etc are all mined via asics and they are decentralized fine, without issues.
GPUs are unfortunately the past. U should sell them.

[bones261]

Can someone clarify this for me since I was so gravely misinformed? I thought Equihash uses a great deal of memory and that it was supposed to deter ASIC manufacturing since the ram requirements would make the machine uneconomically. Did Zooko lie to us, or just didn't really think this through?

[boxalex]

Can someone clarify this for me since I was so gravely misinformed? I thought Equihash uses a great deal of memory and that it was supposed to deter ASIC manufacturing since the ram requirements would make the machine uneconomically. Did Zooko lie to us, or just didn't really think this through?

I personally think neither of both. Technology just advances in lightspeed. You never know what the next day will bring when it comes to technology. It could be an superior FPGA, as an example by samsung, that makes asics and gpus looking mediocore. 2 Years ago a single gpu in your PC with 2 or 3 GP Ram was fine, nowadays every game has 2 or 3 gpu's with at least 8GP each ...... Time is changing, and that fast, very fast.

[yvmen]

I dont get what u mean by out of touch. Innovation occurs. Things change. Cant do much about it.
GPU is the past.  Horses were used in the past. Then, cars came. The problem with mining is that it is getting harder to breakeven these days.
I understand your pain. Buyers gotta hope no competitor comes up with a similar asic.

I won't have pain. I broke even on my gpus long ago. Don't worry about me.

He is out of touch of touch related to...

1 - What shifting gpus off of ETH will do to other crypto. He has stated he doesn't think asic represents a significant portion of the network.
2 - If you have read about how they plan on implementing ETH PoS... On a scale of decentralization to centralization you have....
Decentralization---CPUs----GPUs----Asics----ETH PoS---Centralization

this is what they dont see , even with or without Asic , by what they mention memory hard .. mining on zec cash .. did they read how does bytom mine and what is in use of it .. then you will know everything is possible the tech and everything they are using is far beyond and alot people just we want decentralize all the time and did they even understand what does that mean ...

yvmen

[Kaniel-ouots]

its too risky to buy asic miner right now its saured and everyone refuse it & we dont know if we will get the same profit from now to delivery day so i think its too useless

[greyday]

Can someone clarify this for me since I was so gravely misinformed? I thought Equihash uses a great deal of memory and that it was supposed to deter ASIC manufacturing since the ram requirements would make the machine uneconomically. Did Zooko lie to us, or just didn't really think this through?

Ethash is the most mem heavy afaik. I think it's a heavier one, but I would assume they've figured out a workaround of some sort...