Mining VS Rendering

[LEOS TOKEN]

I got acquainted with the percent distribution of tokens. But I would like to see a well-written, detailed budget for roadmap implementation.
Does it Leonardo has?

We have this but are not currently making this public knowledge due to it containing proprietary information we do not want leaked at the moment. Our roadmap is ever expanding far beyond the few years that are currently public.

[LEOS TOKEN]

Hello everyone, We are happy to announce that our Beta Version of the Leonardo Render software is on the way. Many improvements and stability tests have been made. The Beta version will be accessible via free download and the rendering service will be available for free for the duration of the Beta-Stage. Stay Tuned for more info.

Best,
LT

It's a good news. The team moved noticeably and the interest of the public began to grow in parallel with doubts. I hope soon we will be able to evaluate everything in practice. On access to the beta version, there will be no restrictions?

I think there will be restrictions as it's the beta version and there gonna be many bugs that are yet to be discovered. Upon checking their roadmap i found that they have delivered the Beta version One Month in advance than was mentioned. I don't think they will allow mining currently or else peoples will jump for the free service haha.

You are correct. We have launched our Beta early and there are bugs to be found still. Since we have begun the Beta we are thrilled we have in fact found a number of bugs and have been able to solve all of them very quickly and easily.

Our beta is currently open ONLY to 3D artists...which honestly is a great opportunity for them(artists) to take advantage even if only for two hours the ability to render for free on many GPUs.

[JOEESPN1]

Can I buy altcoin at a % of the whole coin..Like 1 dlr. of it.....Then use that asset to buy HEMPCOIN or other smaller coins.? Joe

[LEOS TOKEN]

Interesting project to say the least. Looks like Golem has a competitor. From what I have studied and tested GeePeeU PCI bandwidth isn't an issue for rendering as compared to AI training. I got the following results.

Vray Benchmark:
https://benchmark.chaosgroup.com/gpu/details?hw=Intel%28R%29+Core%28TM%29+i5-2300+CPU+%40+2.80GHz+x4%2C+GeForce+GTX+1070+8192MB+x4&id=16244

System Specs: i5 2300
Ram: 10 GB
GPUs: 4 x 1070s

The difference is of +/- 2 seconds. Keep in mind I used a PCI-express 4x Splitter and these results are from a single PCI-lane.

Here is another result from octane bench:


I saw a 10% performance loss while using the "splitter". Still isn't that much IMO.


What I am more interested in is why they are worried about the latency issues and how golem will tackle it. From what I have researched there are plugins already available for connecting up multiple machines for rendering in a LAN environment. Are you guys using one of these? That's the only logical explanation for me to not accept people with less than 100 GPUs. Cause their "software" isn't made to do rendering on the global scale i.e is to split up the task and send it around the globe to an average user/miner.

Also, what will happen with GPUs who will stand idle for most cases? Are you going to support mining as a backup for them? I can't imagine these GPUs are being used 24/7 unless you have managed to land every single Animation studio on the planet to use your service, which I highly doubt at this stage.

Hi,

To answer Your question, we have to go a bit backwards to the main purpose of Leonardo and the way our system faces the rendering task.

Simple Case:

1 computer with 1 GPU

This Computer can run a rendering on 1 GPU. Fine.

2 Computers 1GPU Each

Each computer can run a portion of the rendering, installing 2 times the 3D software (one on each computer), then each computer runs a piece of the task that the user has to assemble together somehow. ( not ideal at all for designers )

What if You want both GPUs ( in 2 separated computers ) work on the same frame? How do You  combine them together?
If You know a solution that can solve this problem i'll be more than happy to try it. But for what we know, there's none, unfortunately.

Leonardo can do it.
Our solution can allocate nearly infinite number of GPUs and work on a single frame. This is GPU virtualization.
In order to work, all the GPUs must be wired inside the same network. For this reason, our ideal provider has 50+ GPUs, so each render client can connect to the infrastructure and run rendering without queue and shortage of GPUs.

Latency is not an issue in Leonardo. Not our problem.
We ran hi-speed tests from China using US infrastructures. Not a single second of delay.

Try to believe.

Regarding your point about existing plugins. I am sure there are some plugs around that can split each frame on a single GPU node ( doesn't mean that you can combine gpus on a single frame ) also Blender Network Render can do it, and it's a free Addon. Not crazy magic.

My question is: if someone says that our solution is not so innovative, why there's no market leader for Cloud Rendering? I don't know any render farm that can count 250,000 GPUs aroud the world, a proprietary GPU virtualization software and a platform that eliminates queue.
All of this for a price that is 30-40% cheaper than any competitor.

Including a open Beta Test delivered before the ICO.

I hope you will give our software a try and let us know.

Thanks,

Marco

[LEOS TOKEN]

This is the first time i came across the word rendering. So what is Rendering actually?

If I understand correctly in simple words rendering is the process of creating photorealistic images from 2D or 3D models. Today rendering is used in animation, film production, construction and architecture, surgery and dentistry, etc. But is it really so far, if it is so in demand, that there are no worthy companies rendering rendering? What is the advantage of Leonardo?

There are other companies doing renderings(they are known as render farms) these render farms have access to a limited number of GPUs, are expensive, and you must send your work off to them and then once it has finished you will receive your project back.

One of the many benefits of Leonardo is we are developing a real time view...this is INCREDIBLY helpful for everybody but most helpful for students/teachers who might be learning 3D design.

Let me give you an example: You are new to the 3D world and you have been preparing a huge scene for the last two weeks. Now you want this scene to be rendered, your computer comes back and says that will take 2 years to do on your computer, not only is that ridiculous BUT you are learning what if you made a lighting mistake, or you decide you don't like the color on one of your buildings. We are developing a live view giving you the ability to watch your render be completed in real time, giving you the student and opportunity to correct your mistake before a)waiting 10 years on your computer or b) spending money on a render farm just to find out that you need to have it rendered again once you have fixed the error.

Another advantage of Leonardo is how easy the software is, the affordability, and how scalable it is. We give you the option to decide if you want to use 5 GPUs or 10,000 GPUs. We are putting the power in your hands depending on your budget, time constraints, and needs. All without compromising the integrity of your work.

Hope this helps you realize some of the advantages of Leonardo Render.

[OlgaKopotii]

You have very interesting project especially now, when mining profitability is getting down. I read your FAQ about rendering but I didn’t find all answers how to participate in your project, what is exact amount of tokens do I need to have to participate. I hope that after pre-sale you’ll have more detailed guide on your site.

Indeed, the organizers should not interrupt contact with the participants, should constantly talk about the progress of the project, the implementation of the roadmap, the partnerships concluded. All this will help to strengthen the growth of Leos.

[LEOS TOKEN]

Our solution is to split and distribute only in local network single rendering task among hundreds of GPU.

That's your problem there are 3rd party plugins available which do the exact same thing? what is the "Innovation" here? A true innovation would have been if you could have distributed the divided tasks across the internet. But that isn't the case. What are your plans for small miners? What if a miner who has 10K GPUs buys this plugin and get clients on his own? He wouldn't have to go through the trouble of exchanging tokens or staking any. This is one of the reasons you should start working on "Global" Version instead of just sticking with a "Local" Version.

Our software allows to run other tasks, while miner is not rendering. Mining is great example of such a task, it can be closed and restarted at any time. So miners can't earn less with Leonardo, they can only increase their income due to higher rendering profitability vs mining.

Alright.

We are not sure where this $11K comes from but thisd is the answer:

Seriously? It says on your infographic. Here let me point that out.



Pixar may be moving, but there are still many tasks which can only be performed by a CPU, Rendering is not mining. GPUs currently can't meet the "precision" which CPUs are able to achieve. Hence why we haven't seen a total shift towards GPUs for rendering. As I said in my previous post. Only a handful of effects can be rendered via GPUs. CPUs are still here and they will be here for a decade more.

Hi, again.

When You talk about ''precision'' i am a bit confused.
It's the first time I hear that the CPU is more precise than a GPU. So I can't say anything about it. 
But when You mention that ''precision'' is the reason why CPU is still used more than GPU i am sorry but You are wrong.

Big studios use CPU rendering because it's possible to combine RAM on CPU to extremely large numbers. So 100GB scenes can be hosted in large CPU render farms with huge RAM.

On the other side, GPU Ram cannot be summed. If a GPU has 11GB of RAM, it will only be able to host a scene that is Max 11GB of Ram. That's the real limitation of GPU.

So large studios will be able to render on GPU only when GPU producers will invent an hardware with 100GB of RAM. (I think V ray is working on something like this, to confirm my theory).

Now, You may say that BIG studios won't be interested in GPU rendering. Fair enough, if their scene is bigger than 11GB unfortunately we can't host.
But there are tens of millions of users that produce every day the same amount of media that Hollywood will probably produce in ten thousand years. Talking about:
Architects, Illustrators, Product designers, animators, Gaming Companies, Events Producers, Light Designers, Engineers, Car Producers, Boat Producers, Advertising Agencies......etc etc etc

All of them make our market, filling a nice 85% of the entire industry, and believe me, they hardly hit more than 12GB.

That's the story according to Leonardo.

ah, one more thing. about CPU precision.

Ask Tesla why the use GPU in self driving cars instead of CPU.

 

Cheers,

Marco

[LEOS TOKEN]

You have very interesting project especially now, when mining profitability is getting down. I read your FAQ about rendering but I didn’t find all answers how to participate in your project, what is exact amount of tokens do I need to have to participate. I hope that after pre-sale you’ll have more detailed guide on your site.

Indeed, the organizers should not interrupt contact with the participants, should constantly talk about the progress of the project, the implementation of the roadmap, the partnerships concluded. All this will help to strengthen the growth of Leos.

Hi,

If You guys want to participate, You can find all the answers on the Product Website, ICO website and for special requests: info@leonardorender.com
Our Telegram channel is always active and all the news, partnerships, updates are always there, on time, before any other channel.
You are more than welcome to join.

If You are a miner and want to join Leonardo, please write to:
support@leonardorender.com

or

info@leonardorender.com

You will get a form to participate and the number of TOKENS needed to allocate Your GPUs.

Thanks,

Team Leonardo

[Thekool1s]

Each computer can run a portion of the rendering, installing 2 times the 3D software (one on each computer), then each computer runs a piece of the task that the user has to assemble together somehow. ( not ideal at all for designers )

What if You want both GPUs ( in 2 separated computers ) work on the same frame? How do You  combine them together?
If You know a solution that can solve this problem i'll be more than happy to try it. But for what we know, there's none, unfortunately.

This is quite innovative indeed.

Our solution can allocate nearly infinite number of GPUs and work on a single frame. This is GPU virtualization. In order to work, all the GPUs must be wired inside the same network.

Why tho? What is stopping Leonardo to work with other GPUs outside of the network? Also, Isn't the internet one big network of computers? Plus you didn't mention what your plans are for the smaller miners.

Architects, Illustrators, Product designers, animators, Gaming Companies, Events Producers, Light Designers, Engineers, Car Producers, Boat Producers, Advertising Agencies

Indeed these are your "potential" clients. How are you going to promote this? or to be more "Precise" Break the norm? Most Animators are patient enough to sit out the rendering time

ah, one more thing. about CPU precision.

Ask Tesla why the use GPU in self driving cars instead of CPU.

Cuz its uses AI, not rendering And AI performs better on GPUs.

[LEOS TOKEN]

Each computer can run a portion of the rendering, installing 2 times the 3D software (one on each computer), then each computer runs a piece of the task that the user has to assemble together somehow. ( not ideal at all for designers )

What if You want both GPUs ( in 2 separated computers ) work on the same frame? How do You  combine them together?
If You know a solution that can solve this problem i'll be more than happy to try it. But for what we know, there's none, unfortunately.

This is quite innovative indeed.

Our solution can allocate nearly infinite number of GPUs and work on a single frame. This is GPU virtualization. In order to work, all the GPUs must be wired inside the same network.

Why tho? What is stopping Leonardo to work with other GPUs outside of the network? Also, Isn't the internet one big network of computers? Plus you didn't mention what your plans are for the smaller miners.

Architects, Illustrators, Product designers, animators, Gaming Companies, Events Producers, Light Designers, Engineers, Car Producers, Boat Producers, Advertising Agencies

Indeed these are your "potential" clients. How are you going to promote this? or to be more "Precise" Break the norm? Most Animators are patient enough to sit out the rendering time

ah, one more thing. about CPU precision.

Ask Tesla why the use GPU in self driving cars instead of CPU.

Cuz its uses AI, not rendering And AI performs better on GPUs.

We are currently working on a proposal for smaller miners. I think we can find a happy medium for everybody.

Hopefully in the future we can expand our development and certain restrictions won't be in place. But as of right now we have yet to see a project that has successfully produced renderings whilst combining GPUs not within the same network.

[Elder III]

Each computer can run a portion of the rendering, installing 2 times the 3D software (one on each computer), then each computer runs a piece of the task that the user has to assemble together somehow. ( not ideal at all for designers )

What if You want both GPUs ( in 2 separated computers ) work on the same frame? How do You  combine them together?
If You know a solution that can solve this problem i'll be more than happy to try it. But for what we know, there's none, unfortunately.

This is quite innovative indeed.

Our solution can allocate nearly infinite number of GPUs and work on a single frame. This is GPU virtualization. In order to work, all the GPUs must be wired inside the same network.

Why tho? What is stopping Leonardo to work with other GPUs outside of the network? Also, Isn't the internet one big network of computers? Plus you didn't mention what your plans are for the smaller miners.

Architects, Illustrators, Product designers, animators, Gaming Companies, Events Producers, Light Designers, Engineers, Car Producers, Boat Producers, Advertising Agencies

Indeed these are your "potential" clients. How are you going to promote this? or to be more "Precise" Break the norm? Most Animators are patient enough to sit out the rendering time

ah, one more thing. about CPU precision.

Ask Tesla why the use GPU in self driving cars instead of CPU.

Cuz its uses AI, not rendering And AI performs better on GPUs.

We are currently working on a proposal for smaller miners. I think we can find a happy medium for everybody.

Hopefully in the future we can expand our development and certain restrictions won't be in place. But as of right now we have yet to see a project that has successfully produced renderings whilst combining GPUs not within the same network.

When you say that your ideal rendering farm must be 50+ GPUs, are you taking into consideration that 25 GTX 1080 Ti are significantly more powerful then 50 GTX 1060 GPUs?  Wouldn't it be better to say that a farm must meet a certain amount of rendering power (similar to a fixed hashrate for mining etc.) rather then a certain number of GPUs since not all GPUs are created equal...?

thanks

[finaleshot2016]

Since my build is for rendering purposes then I think it's my time to gain profit in my rig.  
I have my 2nd rig with a specs of;

AMD Ryzen 5 2600 and only a 1050 Ti Oc single + 8 GB Ram;

Do you think it's enough for me to do the rendering process? I just have a little idea that I should add more RAM like 8gb 4x 3200 MHz for multitasking.


edited; but the problem is 1GPU only gains 0.50 USD. I think i will consume more elec. before gaining huge income. It's better to have multiple GPUs for great income. Or maybe, 1 GPU and the 6 core cpu might have a possibilty to add more atleast 0.25usd. Any recommendation to the pro's?

[Sophia Audley]

Will you need to install special programs to work ? Or will it be possible to work directly through your website?

As far I understand you do not have to install anything. With the program you can work in the cloud - without clogging the memory of your computer and having complete confidentiality of data.                              

Yes, that are the positive points. I think the software will act like a VPS, another virtual machine where we don't have to use our computer resource and can completely rely about the security of our datas. The platform’s blockchain-based supercomputer protocol delivers customers the fastest, simplest, and most affordable cloud-based rendering solution on the market.      

[on.live]

Great project guys. I think using less and less profitable gpu mining rigs for rendering is a great idea, especially as it opens animation rendering which can take a lot of time with GI theese days.

[Thekool1s]

Since my build is for rendering purposes then I think it's my time to gain profit in my rig.  
I have my 2nd rig with a specs of;

AMD Ryzen 5 2600 and only a 1050 Ti Oc single + 8 GB Ram;

Do you think it's enough for me to do the rendering process? I just have a little idea that I should add more RAM like 8gb 4x 3200 MHz for multitasking.


edited; but the problem is 1GPU only gains 0.50 USD. I think i will consume more elec. before gaining huge income. It's better to have multiple GPUs for great income. Or maybe, 1 GPU and the 6 core cpu might have a possibilty to add more atleast 0.25usd. Any recommendation to the pro's?

You got it all wrong bud. Leonardo isn't for users with less than 50 GPUs. I will recommend you to go through the whole thread again. If you are having trouble understanding the thread/English then please stick to your local section. Cuz this post was pure garbage and an attempt to bump your signature posts. Talk with Zapo and see if you guys can figure something out. Else you will look like a spammer and may get blacklisted by SMAS.

We are currently working on a proposal for smaller miners. I think we can find a happy medium for everybody.

Alrighty...

But as of right now we have yet to see a project that has successfully produced renderings whilst combining GPUs not within the same network.

Golem is trying to do this. They have already achieved this for the CPUs. Currently, they are working to support Nvidia GPUs. So you do have a competitor in Golem. Guess whoever will achieve it first will be the market leader in the future.

We are currently working on a proposal for smaller miners. I think we can find a happy medium for everybody.

Good luck!

[063Myxa]

Will this be a fresh breeze for miners? maybe this will also be the reason why GPUs will still be needed than ASIC. But wait, can ASIC be used for rendering? Somehow I hope not.

I would advise paying attention to projects with hardcap up to 15 million or for ambitious, but adequate projects. Anything higher is worth checking carefully.                        

[Momur0]

It is a good thread and is also very useful as well.

Of course, it is worth more thoroughly familiarize yourself with this project. But on the other hand, working in the cloud at the moment increases the flexibility of processes and gives an opportunity to save money as you will not spend money on the purchase of expensive servers for storing information. And if Leonardo will use the cloud to fulfill orders, I think this is very profitable.

[limpopo poni]

Nice thread ), just reserved msg)
Hey everybody! I have GPU mining facilities  4xGTX1060 and want to test your software, how can i do it?

i want to jump to rendering with my minig far. over 150 GPU.

Thanks for youк question.

We currently have minimum requirements for the miners - 100 GPUs. The reason is that the rendering should be made within one large enough GPU cluster to provide fast rendering services and avoid latency.

If you qualify, please specify your location, the number of GPUs and preffered method of contact. Our team will be in touch.

Best,
L

That's huge! A 100 GPU's will make a large GPU farm, i don't think any miner will be interested in using their GPU to supply for rendering purpose. A lot more can be earned by simply mining using those GPU's. Though Bitcoin value keeps fluctuating, it rises and drops and mining can be done until the prices rise.

[Novac]

Is it planned to develop and maintain an own LEOS blockchain?

I agree, a good implementation opportunity for the owners of farms but not for the private user. In essence, this is leasing its computing power for a fee.

[alex bugor]

Hi,

Here are some suggestions:

1) Come up with an app that basically mirrors/simulates what performance any potential contractors should achieve with your rendering service. The goal for you is to check the particulars of the "horsepower" of the candidate farm under test. There are several configuration factors that may or may not be important such as employment of:

a) SSD's

b) high end CPU's

c) internet connection

d) MB idiosyncrasies


As a crude, at hand mining example using whattomine, 41 1080ti GPUS, have the equivalent ETH hashing power of about 100 1060 cards. Therefore GPU count can't be the sole criteria.

To try to avoid gaming the system you may want to spec also cclock, TDP, and Mclock of the FUT.

These are good suggestions regarding the platform.  GPU mining is still profitable and anyone saying something different is uninformed or trying to keep you from raising the difficulty on their miners! Over the next 12 months and beyond the picture will become clear what projects truly believe the concept and technology of decentralized blockchains and which ones are out for greed.