who bought bitmain Z9 will face a big issues now

[badger88]

GPU miners are like the banks and corps that need govt bailout because their business model is trash

whine whine welfare, protect only my marxist interests and block others from joining the markets..
 

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[vapourminer]

I have a viable ideas that will stop any big miner.

Ie my new coin is nvidia gpu coin   you can only send 1 miner capped at say  650sols     or like 1x  1080ti

So the benefit of a 10000 sol asic  is worthless as it needs to clock to  650 sols.

the asic = worthless
the fpga = worthless.

in fact  a new coin  such as gpuZcash  can use  the asic al-gore-rythm of equihash  but on the blockchain  limit the block winners to 700 sols. of hash

so you 10000 sol asic has to downclock to 700 sols  not a brick  but fucked none the less.

btw at zcash founders  you could do this with zcash.  and it would work.  pools would need more servers  since more workers  would be used.

program your pos asics of fpga's then  just down clock them to 7 percent 

so the 10000 sols drops to 700 sols and it saves some watts   maybe you do 50- 100 watts, but it does not look that good anymore.


so asic resistance is easy.

they would just write the software so one 10,000 sol asic simulates 14 miners at 700 sols and connects to 14 pools. or 14 different workers at the same pool.

kinda like a 14 core cpu. each string of asic chips works as a different worker on its own.

or is this limited sols per ip or something.. unless you get dozens of internet addys/lines that would make farms useless and gpu sales would tank anyway as each person will only buy one gpu per algo. a few 8 or whatever gpu rigs to cover a couple dozen algos and youre done.

maybe im interpreting this wrong.

[JaredKaragen]

they would just write the software so one 10,000 sol asic simulates 14 miners at 700 sols and connects to 14 pools. kinda like a 14 threaded cpu.

or is this limited sols per ip or something.. unless you get dozens of internet addys/lines that would make farms useless and gpu sales would tank anyway as each person will only buy one gpu per algo. a few 8 or whatever gpu rigs to cover a couple dozen algos and youre done.

maybe im interpreting this wrong.

since mining was designed around being able to do things as fast as possible..... no way to really limit mining speed I can think of except for a time check/counter being mixed in with the mining code as to change the value of the result obtained from said hash based on the time to calculate;  plus or minus a percentage.  Before you hash, you salt the input with a timestamp.  Then, you salt it with a ratio of the outbound result with another timestamp.    Apply the "salt" as you would a TLS handshake....  and verify the validity of a result the same way as any other; via the stratum and network nodes verifying and sharing the same clock specs and +/- error.

If the network detects too high of a result coming from a certain node;  that node will get penalized on the network somehow.... TBD....

There are methods though... but flat out putting a "speedlimit" on people will only convince them to find ways to break up their hash and have it seemingly spread across multiple sources....  IF you make anti-pool code;  people will just set up a million smaller miners.... etc.  Gotta think past all that.

[gotminer]

GPU miners are like the banks and corps that need govt bailout because their business model is trash

whine whine welfare, protect only my marxist interests and block others from joining the markets..
 

Lol ... You have no concept of what decentralization means.

[badger88]

GPU miners are like the banks and corps that need govt bailout because their business model is trash

whine whine welfare, protect only my marxist interests and block others from joining the markets..
 

Lol ... You have no concept of what decentralization means.

decentralizing isn't people hoarding hundreds of video cards - -this can be the solution to the centralization of hoarding GPUs

[practicaltexan]

GPU miners are like the banks and corps that need govt bailout because their business model is trash

whine whine welfare, protect only my marxist interests and block others from joining the markets..
 

Lol ... You have no concept of what decentralization means.

decentralizing isn't people hoarding hundreds of video cards - -this can be the solution to the centralization of hoarding GPUs

You have a weird idea of a solution to hoarding GPU's....by making ASIC's made by 1 - 3 companies, who also own the largest mining pools, of which those who can afford the high entry point $1500-$2000 minimum for one machine.  That leaves a small number of individuals/corporations.

I have 2 ASIC's and 2 GPU rigs and the ROI on each is night and day.   You need volume with ASIC's to be profitable.  ASIC's are like the amazon and walmarts.   It is about quantity.  I'm not saying you can't be profitable with ASIC's and those who by 1st generations are generally those who ROI on the ASIC's.

GPU is decentralized because pretty much anyone can get into the game with 1 GPU and scale up over time.  With ASIC's....you literally have all your coins in 1 basket and if that coin is forked, well you are forked too.

[Kalyst69]

Very interesting point of view about ASICs

https://blog.sia.tech/the-state-of-cryptocurrency-mining-538004a37f9b

[arielbit]

what if an algo or new stuff (whatever it may be called) is created that it hashes by rendering-> the kind of work where GPUs excel over ASICs and FPGAs...

[adaseb]

what if an algo or new stuff (whatever it may be called) is created that it hashes by rendering-> the kind of work where GPUs excel over ASICs and FPGAs...

Rendering is really not that much different from hashing different algos.

Even if there was a similiar algo like that, it would still be possible to create an ASIC.

After Sha256 got ASICs, Scrypt was created by the Litecoin dev as a way to keep it GPU mineable only.

I think it was more intensive than Sha256 but a few years later ASICs came out for that too.

Same with Dashcoin which was based on the X11 algo which was also suppose to be ASIC resistant.

So Equihash and DaggerHash are no different.

[arielbit]

what if an algo or new stuff (whatever it may be called) is created that it hashes by rendering-> the kind of work where GPUs excel over ASICs and FPGAs...

Rendering is really not that much different from hashing different algos.

Even if there was a similiar algo like that, it would still be possible to create an ASIC.

After Sha256 got ASICs, Scrypt was created by the Litecoin dev as a way to keep it GPU mineable only.

I think it was more intensive than Sha256 but a few years later ASICs came out for that too.

Same with Dashcoin which was based on the X11 algo which was also suppose to be ASIC resistant.

So Equihash and DaggerHash are no different.

I mean like it has to be processed with a "certain" graphics work (like a secret sauce) involved in the computation..not exactly rendering..

doing stuff where GPU's excel...

a) can be merged - mix mix

b) can be separate - a security measure, like "do this stuff first" before hashing....that "stuff" is like something that may or may not be relevant to hashing but only serves as a security like a lock, where the graphics card have to produce a "key" ->the key is something that a GPU can produce but FPGAs and ASICs cannot...or something only GPUs can produce easily but others cannot.

.......what do GPUs do when playing games? maybe that's where we can find the secret sauce..

[warning_btc]

GPU is decentralized because pretty much anyone can get into the game with 1 GPU and scale up over time.  With ASIC's....you literally have all your coins in 1 basket and if that coin is forked, well you are forked too.

Decentralizing is when every miner download full blockchain and store it on their machine.
How we know more then 99% miner not doing that, more then 90 mine to the exchange directly

[Batelk]

what if an algo or new stuff (whatever it may be called) is created that it hashes by rendering-> the kind of work where GPUs excel over ASICs and FPGAs...

Rendering is really not that much different from hashing different algos.

Even if there was a similiar algo like that, it would still be possible to create an ASIC.

After Sha256 got ASICs, Scrypt was created by the Litecoin dev as a way to keep it GPU mineable only.

I think it was more intensive than Sha256 but a few years later ASICs came out for that too.

Same with Dashcoin which was based on the X11 algo which was also suppose to be ASIC resistant.

So Equihash and DaggerHash are no different.

The only difference is that the DaggerHash is more GPU resistant.

[Dagamus(NM)]

Seems like the x16r variable algorithm chain should make it pretty difficult to make an asic for it.

Still possible but unlikely.

Makes raven seem like a decent project. ZEC is about the same as far as profitability goes right now. Seems the manipulators pulled all of their sell walls on Kraken for ZEC. It will be interesting to se how far it climbs before they crash it again.

Seems like it will be a good time to sell ZEC if you have it just before it lists on Gemini

[lolchina]

Seems like the x16r variable algorithm chain should make it pretty difficult to make an asic for it.

Still possible but unlikely.

Makes raven seem like a decent project. ZEC is about the same as far as profitability goes right now. Seems the manipulators pulled all of their sell walls on Kraken for ZEC. It will be interesting to se how far it climbs before they crash it again.

Seems like it will be a good time to sell ZEC if you have it just before it lists on Gemini

Bro kraken isnt even on top 15 places with how many zec are being trade on some exchange,that wall you saw doesnt make any difference.If you want to do ta do it on exchange with most volume
https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/zcash/#markets

[Marvell2]

Seems like the x16r variable algorithm chain should make it pretty difficult to make an asic for it.

Still possible but unlikely.

Makes raven seem like a decent project. ZEC is about the same as far as profitability goes right now. Seems the manipulators pulled all of their sell walls on Kraken for ZEC. It will be interesting to se how far it climbs before they crash it again.

Seems like it will be a good time to sell ZEC if you have it just before it lists on Gemini

Bro kraken isnt even on top 15 places with how many zec are being trade on some exchange,that wall you saw doesnt make any difference.If you want to do ta do it on exchange with most volume
https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/zcash/#markets

zec is only pumping bc its added to gemini

[Dagamus(NM)]

Seems like the x16r variable algorithm chain should make it pretty difficult to make an asic for it.

Still possible but unlikely.

Makes raven seem like a decent project. ZEC is about the same as far as profitability goes right now. Seems the manipulators pulled all of their sell walls on Kraken for ZEC. It will be interesting to se how far it climbs before they crash it again.

Seems like it will be a good time to sell ZEC if you have it just before it lists on Gemini

Bro kraken isnt even on top 15 places with how many zec are being trade on some exchange,that wall you saw doesnt make any difference.If you want to do ta do it on exchange with most volume
https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/zcash/#markets

I imagine that they look similar across most exchanges. The people moving big enough money to manipulate are on all of them simultaneously. The only way it works.

I don’t have time to be on all of them but they only deviate so much from one another to collectively determine market price at a given point in time.

The consensus seems to be anticipation of Gemini. ZEC has been hammered over the past couple of months after being relatively consistent with the change in percent value from one day to the next relative to the other major coins.

I still have some hashing power on ZEC. Once this z9 comes in I will have more. I will run it until I cannot anymore. Hopefully it does fork though. Has been a great GPU coin.

[Ursul0]

what if an algo or new stuff (whatever it may be called) is created that it hashes by rendering-> the kind of work where GPUs excel over ASICs and FPGAs...

Rendering is really not that much different from hashing different algos.

Even if there was a similiar algo like that, it would still be possible to create an ASIC.

After Sha256 got ASICs, Scrypt was created by the Litecoin dev as a way to keep it GPU mineable only.

I think it was more intensive than Sha256 but a few years later ASICs came out for that too.

Same with Dashcoin which was based on the X11 algo which was also suppose to be ASIC resistant.

So Equihash and DaggerHash are no different.

I mean like it has to be processed with a "certain" graphics work (like a secret sauce) involved in the computation..not exactly rendering..

doing stuff where GPU's excel...

a) can be merged - mix mix

b) can be separate - a security measure, like "do this stuff first" before hashing....that "stuff" is like something that may or may not be relevant to hashing but only serves as a security like a lock, where the graphics card have to produce a "key" ->the key is something that a GPU can produce but FPGAs and ASICs cannot...or something only GPUs can produce easily but others cannot.

.......what do GPUs do when playing games? maybe that's where we can find the secret sauce..

Please keep in mind that all of the following are ASICs(with different capabilities): Intel, AMD and ARM CPUs, Nvidia and AMD GPUs, FPGAs, DSPs... anything actually.
And there's nothing special about GPU - it just allows for some (massive comparing to CPU) parallel calculations(SIMD/MIMD) has some fast RAM nearby and is more flexible than dedicated mining ASICs. However ASIC can be built as flexible as you desire providing there's a justified need.

The current modus operandi of ASIC makers is not "highly efficient and sustainable", which is generally understandable as it's hard to operate planing long term while the silicon process keep shrinking, and blockchain is exploding at the same time.
Hopefully they will do better now when more competition arrives... First we'll need to see if it will actually make the mining hw generally more available.
Interesting thing though: it probably will only seemingly reduce "exclusiveness" of mining and improve decentralization ... as it will reduce mining profits and thus force only the most optimized operations to be profitable...