Economic Devastation

[iamback]

Back on the topic of technological unemployment, Armstrong has mirrored the essay I wrote in 2012 or 2013:

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/10/the-risk-of-artificial-intelligence/

http://unheresy.com/Information%20Is%20Alive.html

He is correct that entropy (randomness) of a program is limited to its author, which was my point.

Within our field of expertise we are smarter than Bill Gates, Stephen Hawking, Elon Musk, Bill Joy, and Ray Kurzweil (among many other incorrect Malthusians).

On the subject of AI, if biological intelligence is possible, what would preclude machine intelligence from being possible? I think it's rather early to suggest that strong AI is impossible, considering that we don't even fully understand how the human brain works.

Sigh. You are entirely missing the point of entropy. How the brain works has nothing to do with the fact that every human brain is unique, because it's creator (procreation) was unique.

We can program a computer to emulate any task we can define. But we can't give a single computer the same collective entropy of the human race. In other words, each computer program will be a reflection of it's creator and thus not omniscient. Computers can't become all knowing any more than one human can't become all knowing, because each human is unique and will do random actions, thoughts, emotions, etc.. It is this entropy which gives the human race resiliency for there is one or more humans able to adapt to each unique situation.

Think about this. That evolution is slow and humans are slower than computers, is what enables the entropy to be greater. The smorgasbord has to simmer in the pot to produce the high entropy offspring of not only the genome but also the environment.

Think about this. Because the speed-of-light is not infinite, it is impossible to be omniscient because remote information can't transfer in real-time to a single observer, i.e. an omniscient computer is impossible (incongruent with the fundamental structure of the universe). I made this point numerous times in my blog (<--- must read) and my other past writings.

My blog explains why without friction (non-infinite speed-of-light) the past, present, and future would collapse into a single point in time, and we would not exist. Cycles (periodic waves) are a required outcome of friction. I cover that in my linked blog. This is why Armstrong's cyclical models are possible (the fundamental matter of the universe is periodicity).

I (as AnonyMint) had a debate about this in the "No Money Exists Without Majority" thread.

[iamback]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/21/bradley-manning-leaks_n_3788126.html

Never quote the HuffPo. I repeat, never. They are not a credible source of information for anything other than what the Kardashians are wearing.

The video linked on that page is undeniable. That the video is linked from a HuffPo website is irrelevant. You can find that video all over the internet. If you haven't watched it, you should. It is the footage leaked to WikiLeaks by Bradley Manning (who was imprisoned and probably tortured because of it).

P.S. I will be back to address your ignorance of statistical racial facts.

Update: Education for you on statistical racial facts:

http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6160
http://blog.jim.com/culture/guns-murder-and-race/
http://blog.jim.com/politics/blacks-are-stupid/
http://blog.jim.com/culture/the-damage-caused-by-diversity/
http://blog.jim.com/economics/people-of-negative-economic-value/
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/his-panic/

[iamback]

Armstrong chimes in about my recent post about the rise of Asia and the decline of the West.

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/11/china-moving-to-replace-usa-as-financial-capitol-of-world/

China Moving to Replace USA as Financial Capitol of World

A vital step in the shift of the Financial Capitol of the World moving from the West to the East, is becoming visible if you pay attention. Our model has revealed that the Financial Capitol of the World moves with the rise and fall of nations. China on the verge of becoming a net exporter of capital, it has already overtaken its Western counterparts as a primary source of credit for the developing world. And from this financial prominence, China will gradually exercise political influence that will shadow the United States in the decades ahead. We are at the dawn of a new era – the rise of Asia.

...

China will become the new Financial Capitol of the World as the West destroys themselves with raising taxes to fund impossible governmental consumption of wealth. The simple math shows the West cannot possibly survive the conclusion of this Private Wave in 2032. China uses and believes in cycles. The West believes only in a straight line.

[B.A.S.]

Sorry B.A.S you are not understanding.  

The Prime Minister focused on sustainability stressing the need for individuals to take personal responsibility and save for their own healthcare (Singapore currently requires all citizens to save 20% of their income in health savings accounts which the can tap if they become ill). He stresses the need for government to keep costs contained and not shift expenses to future generations by promising things that cannot be delivered. He warns that if the government succumbs to the temptation to promise benefits while leaving bills to the next generation it will hurt Singaporeans in the long run.

Obama's speech is miles apart. Here you find no talk of tradeoffs, personal responsibility or costs. Instead all you see is a litany of open ended unfunded promises.
1) Obama promises that those who have insurance can keep their current plan
2) Obama promises that no insurance company can deny you insurance coverage no matter how much treating you will cost.
3) Obama promises that there will be no limits on how much insurance companies will have to pay to take care of you
4) Obama promises that that individuals out of pocket expenses will be strictly limited

What is brushed aside is who pays for it all. We are only told that everyone must do their part "especially the young and the healthy".

Obama's first promise has already been broken as millions of people have been forced to transition from low cost health insurance plans that insurance companies were forced to cancel to more expensive Obamacare alternatives.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/nov/06/barack-obama/barack-obama-says-what-hed-said-was-you-could-keep/

The rest of the promises will over time eventually prove equally false because you cannot promise the impossible. If you set up a system with open ended liabilities and no cost controls there is no one to blame but yourself when you go bankrupt. The only question is how far will the government go when making sure everyone pays "their part".

Iamback, this is America with one of its most entitled generations coming of age (millennials). A massive die-off is in works and will be over the next 20 years from the WWII boom generation. The system in place to take care of America's healthcare needs cannot support this die off. Proper planning was not done back in the late 40s to supersede what we have today. Somebody needs to pay for this and at the end of the day, whether you like it or not, you're going to pay for it (I am not saying this makes it right).

Healthcare in Singapore is under the Ministry's control. Their care is UNIVERSAL. The US does NOT have a UNIVERSAL system. Ie. technically you should be responsible for saving and paying your own care or finding an employer to do so on your behalf. Furthermore, healthcare pricing in Singapore is set by the Ministry. They decide how much things cost. The USG does not.

It's funny how no Americans want to pay for a more universal system, but when cancer comes knocking; all of a sudden everyone is willing to spend what it takes whether they can afford it or not. How about that massive car accident that causes a bill of $50K. Are you saving for this? You better be if you are bitching about paying. Do you have $10K plus in extra savings per year to pay for your own plan? How about all those vaccines you may have had as a child; they are $250-1000 a pop uncovered. Which "person" do you think paid for this? How about that time you got your wisdom teeth pulled at the dentist? That's a $2800-5000 procedure if your teeth are impacted and you are not covered by health insurance. This is just the basics.

What about when you're old: maybe you will need heart surgery, medications, cancer, a walking aid, a wheelchair... The list goes on. If you privatize all this and continue to make uninformed comments about the system, you will pay for these out of your own pocket. Are you going to do that? Are you willing to put 1/4 of your paycheck away for unknown costs now and into the future regarding your own health?

It's easy to say what you do, but you have no idea the full implications of this. I am in the healthcare profession. I see it everyday. Start thinking about your fellow MAN and not your next dollar.

Singapore has a very successful system because EVERYONE pays. The US is struggling because we are trying to transition to a system that can support everyone because the current system cannot. Of course the young are needed to get the transition started. Have a little compassion for your fellow man. Obama is not forcing the young en mass to empty their pockets to support the old and dying. It's not a perfect idea, but it has a sustainability factor to it that the current system doesn't.

America is not a free for all and it never has been. You cannot leave basic healthcare on the private level. People die and countries fall apart. This is something everybody must do their part in. There are no fees or huge premiums if you have a job in America that has a healthcare plan. As always, costs only add up for those who use the system a lot.

[iamback]

B.A.S. I learned not to argue with socialists. Rather watch you crash and burn. And no, I am not paying for your mistakes. You will die in poverty. I will cast aside my USA citizenship instead of agreeing to expropriate my (limited remaining) productivity for your mistakes.

The Boomer generation was so selfish and didn't even raise our X-generation with close families. We had to look to our grandparents for that. And now we've struggled our entire life and you expect us to pay for your retirement which you squandered on the high life of debt? I will care for my mother, but not everybody else's mother and father via taxation (expropriation) because for one it is a terminal downward spiral of corruption and mismanagement of funds. Read...

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/10/01/what-socialism-destroyed-govt-shutdown/

What Socialism Destroyed

What must be stated openly is that the “New Deal” of Roosevelt has actually destroyed the very fabric that formed society that nobody wants to look at no less discuss.

For centuries, people had children to provide for their own retirement. Family units were the social structure. The sad part of socialism is how this family unit was fundamentally destroyed by socialism. Once social security was created, children were relieved of the burden of taking care of their parents – that became government’s job. People were told to save conservatively. They salted away money often in government bonds. Now government has been so fiscally irresponsible, they have to keep interest rates low not to stimulate the economy, but to control their own perpetual deficits.

The retired can no longer live off of their savings. Their home has proven to be anything other than the savings for retirement as annual property taxes alone approach the cost of the house in the 1950s. Pensions are insolvent and taxes only rise perpetually. It now takes two incomes for a family to survive. The New Deal has failed on every level.

CoinCube already explained to you that in Singapore the system has an element of self-responsibility and the government is still a small % of the GDP, i.e. lower level of corruption and not so fat cats. For example, in the USA the insurance companies are raking in the corruption. And because the population is younger, less sick (Asian diet instead McUpSizeIt and with immigrants from SE Asia that eat native foods), and not able to choose extremely expensive medical procedures charged to every body else (Westerners are so entitled they think they deserve a $million spent on end of life medical care...as I said, eugenics and assisted suicide will come once the system is bankrupted).

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/11/pensions-big-bang/

What he fails to address is that the taxes are rising on the Middle Class to pay for funds that were outrageously set up to begin with.

I work without pay back in the 1990s to try to save Social Security by privatizing management. Had we simply invested when the Dow was 3500 back then, we would not be in the dark crisis we now face. What Taibbi fails to appreciate is there are places worse than Wall Street – it is call Pennsylvania Avenue in Washington DC.

[B.A.S.]

Singapore pop: ~5 mil
US pop: ~320 mil

Do the math. Thats 60X more people to insure and cover if Singapore absorbed the US. You still think their system could support that? It's successful in part because they are a smaller country and because their people have to pay. If a citizen of Singapore needs more than basic care, they have to pay extra. There is a fee structure.

Having money helps in all situations (being wealthy), but you cannot blindly discard those who don't make a lot of money per year in your ideas because... well just because.

[iamback]

Everyone in the USA is going to pay for themself or perish. That is how the end game of socialism works. Study Nazi Germany. Read my post again, I expanded it.

If a citizen of Singapore needs more than basic care, they have to pay extra.

Exactly. Element of self-responsibility.

Solvent insurance can't be actuarially structured to be open ended to pay for $million end of life strategies. And that is not the only point of corruption in the USA system.

P.S. Filipinos die of cancer without even morphine. Not $50,000 medical bill. Just death and rejuvenation of youth. Maybe Boomers would spend more time exercising and change their diets if they knew they were responsible for the cost of their end of life.

[zebedee]

Singapore pop: ~5 mil
US pop: ~320 mil

Do the math. Thats 60X more people to insure and cover if Singapore absorbed the US.

You're funny.  Scale should make it cheaper per head, yet you're arguing Singapore has the advantage because it's smaller.  No wonder America is fucked.

[B.A.S.]

Everyone in the USA is going to pay for themself or perish. That is how the end game of socialism works. Study Nazi Germany. Read my post again, I expanded it.

If a citizen of Singapore needs more than basic care, they have to pay extra.

Exactly. Element of self-responsibility.

Solvent insurance can't be actuarially structured to be open ended to pay for $million end of life strategies. And that is not the only point of corruption in the USA system.

P.S. Filipinos die of cancer without even morphine. Not $50,000 medical bill. Just death and rejuvenation of youth. Maybe Boomers would spend more time exercising and change their diets if they knew they were responsible for the cost of their end of life.

I don't think it is as doom and gloom as you forecast, but I do agree things need to/will change. The average person is one catastrophe from financial ruin. Trying to educate the US populace on the benefits of saving some income for this eventual accident would be nearly impossible let alone even trying to convince people to stop buying so many things they don't need with money they don't have. Americans today are not known for their self responsibility. It's not in the culture anymore. Many young people want to be individualistic and think short sighted.

 You make a very good point on Boomer lifestyle, but this most likely won't change. In the same breath, their lifestyle choices are not the root of the problem. America is a very different place than it was even 50 years ago. People are living way longer (~70s-80s on average) which taxes the system incredibly.

The Filipino way of life is interesting and with great merits. America doesn't have a death and rejuvenation of youth culture. We have a every-man-for-himself, fuck all, take all, live forever mentality and culture. The only think Americans invest in these days is anything with a larger dollar sign at the front of it, definitely not next generation's youth or out of personal responsibility.

[B.A.S.]

Singapore pop: ~5 mil
US pop: ~320 mil

Do the math. Thats 60X more people to insure and cover if Singapore absorbed the US.

You're funny.  Scale should make it cheaper per head, yet you're arguing Singapore has the advantage because it's smaller.  No wonder America is fucked.

It's not that simple. Yes, scale would make it cheaper, but you're not taking into account the wealth disparity in the US. If you are poor, you cannot get more than basic medical services in Singapore because you cannot afford the extra fees. The majority of Americans are not wealthy. Singapore has an advantage because it has a small population of people with little to no money. The mean yearly income in 2011 for a Singaporean was ~$9K USD. Their system is awesome because very few are utilizing the services that cost real money because they can't afford it so they die instead of being treated. Perhaps you think this is the way it should be?

I'd urge you to take 5 seconds to think before you chastise your supposed 'brilliance' which really is just masking your ignorance.

[CoinCube]

It's funny how no Americans want to pay for a more universal system, but when cancer comes knocking; all of a sudden everyone is willing to spend what it takes whether they can afford it or not.
...
What about when you're old: maybe you will need heart surgery, medications, cancer, a walking aid, a wheelchair... The list goes on. If you privatize all this and continue to make uninformed comments about the system, you will pay for these out of your own pocket. Are you going to do that? Are you willing to put 1/4 of your paycheck away for unknown costs now and into the future regarding your own health?

It's easy to say what you do, but you have no idea the full implications of this. I am in the healthcare profession. I see it everyday. Start thinking about your fellow MAN and not your next dollar.

Singapore has a very successful system because EVERYONE pays. The US is struggling because we are trying to transition to a system that can support everyone because the current system cannot. Of course the young are needed to get the transition started. Have a little compassion for your fellow man. Obama is not forcing the young en mass to empty their pockets to support the old and dying. It's not a perfect idea, but it has a sustainability factor to it that the current system doesn't.

% of Singapore GDP spent on health care = 3%
% of USA GDP spent on health care = 18%

Medical care in Singapore is generally considered excellent.

Singapore has a successfully system not because "everyone pays" but because everyone is forced to save and then spend their own money on health care rather then send the bill to "insurance" where is magically disappears for future generations to worry about. As mentioned above it is a system of personal responsibility. If an individual dies without spending all of their health care savings they can pass that on to their children. Also family members can use their own health savings to pay for an ill loved one. Government only steps in when individual resources are exhausted.

There is a massive power imbalance in the physician patient relationship that you touch on above in your examples of cancer and car crashes. People in these situations are not in a position where then can negotiate or make intelligent cost benefit analysis in regards to health care and are essentially forced to pay whatever the doctor charges. This is where there is a role for government. Not to step in with a blank check, but rather to forcefully pre-negotiate on behalf of such patients to control costs.

As someone who profits from the status quo it is you who I would challenge to start thinking about your fellow MAN not your next dollar. Do you truly think the system of health care which in the US is sustainable?  Obamacare may not be forcing the young en mass to empty their pockets en mass to support the old and dying now, but that is only because we are kicking the can down the road. The current system will do exactly that when taken to its logical conclusion. It is the inevitable result of flawed policy.

[B.A.S.]

It's funny how no Americans want to pay for a more universal system, but when cancer comes knocking; all of a sudden everyone is willing to spend what it takes whether they can afford it or not.
...
What about when you're old: maybe you will need heart surgery, medications, cancer, a walking aid, a wheelchair... The list goes on. If you privatize all this and continue to make uninformed comments about the system, you will pay for these out of your own pocket. Are you going to do that? Are you willing to put 1/4 of your paycheck away for unknown costs now and into the future regarding your own health?

It's easy to say what you do, but you have no idea the full implications of this. I am in the healthcare profession. I see it everyday. Start thinking about your fellow MAN and not your next dollar.

Singapore has a very successful system because EVERYONE pays. The US is struggling because we are trying to transition to a system that can support everyone because the current system cannot. Of course the young are needed to get the transition started. Have a little compassion for your fellow man. Obama is not forcing the young en mass to empty their pockets to support the old and dying. It's not a perfect idea, but it has a sustainability factor to it that the current system doesn't.

% of Singapore GDP spent on health care = 3%
% of USA GDP spent on health care = 18%

Medical care in Singapore is generally considered excellent.

Singapore has a successfully system not because "everyone pays" but because everyone is forced to save and then spend their own money on health care rather then send the bill to "insurance" where is magically disappears for future generations to worry about. As mentioned above it is a system of personal responsibility. If an individual dies without spending all of their health care savings they can pass that on to their children. Also family members can use their own health savings to pay for an ill loved one. Government only steps in when individual resources are exhausted.

There is a massive power imbalance in the physician patient relationship that you touch on above in your examples of cancer and car crashes. People in these situations are not in a position where then can negotiate or make intelligent cost benefit analysis in regards to health care and are essentially forced to pay whatever the doctor charges. This is where there is a definite role for government to step in not with a blank check, but to forcefully pre-negotiate on behalf of such patients to control costs.

As someone who profits from the status quo it is you who I would challenge to start thinking about your fellow MAN not your next dollar. Do you truly think the system of health care which in the US is sustainable?  Obamacare may not be forcing the young en mass to empty their pockets en mass to support the old and dying now, but that is only because we are kicking the can down the road. The current system will do exactly that when taken to its logical conclusion. It is the inevitable result of flawed policy.

Physicians in the public realm do not set prices. The private insurance industry as well as the healthcare industry does. I agree with your points, but I don't exactly benefit from the status quo. I have to live within it. Each hospital has quotas now and has for some time. Physicians must see so many patients a day to justify their existence and employment at the clinic or hospital or you will be let go. Healthcare is a public profit industry run by private interests today in America.

I do not believe the current system is sustainable, but some of the Obamacare enactments will help forge a new direction for healthcare. A fundamental mind set change needs to happen (AKA a few generations need to die off with the newest generations begin taught a new way of thinking towards their health). What's troublesome for me is that the US healthcare system is not universally organized for set pricing. I don't get a larger salary because pricing increases. A heart surgery can run on the low end of $50K at a less known hospital to upwards of $150K at the best hospital with the most well known surgeon. In both cases, the docs know how to do the surgery, were trained identically; yet the price is different.

Healthcare is competitive in the US. Not only do they want you to pay for it, but on top of it; you have to pay TOP dollar to get expected care in these situations. This is not sustainable or dare I say 'fair' in a country where basic care is an unalienable right. I don't blame either side, but sometime long ago someone said basic healthcare was a right and now we are finding out how hard it is to live that statement when the "basic" component has been stretched to include everything from a routine physical to diabetes.

Massive overhauls need to happen with respect to surgeries, cancer, expensive treatments, ER visits, etc. This is where the money is being lost because the majority of Americans who get these procedures don't have a penny to pinch in regards to paying it off. If America operated like Singapore today, we would most likely have a healthier population who value their health more, but this is not the American mindset right now. Necessity is the mother of all invention.

[iamback]

China will unleash its massive social capital onto to SE Asia and the countries which are aligned with Asia:

Asia is not trapped in the downward spiral of the coming Economic Devastation.

Huge amount of capital of every form here (stored money, strong family values, obedient erudite youth, brand new infrastructure, abundant youth seeking opportunity, low wages, low government liabilities, small governments as a share of GDP, etc).

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/11/australia-a-crisis-in-confidence/

The confidence in government is collapsing around the world. Politicians have been so used to bullshitting the people and doing as they like just raising taxes as the standard of living continues to decline. When we turn 2015.75, this is going to be one of the deepest economic turns because government has simply reduced the disposable income of the masses. There is a collapse in investment in the West and we are seeing China where its investment externally will exceed internally. This will turn the heads of everyone to China as the West continues to see rising taxes as governments try so desperately to hold on to power as their empires crumble.

The West has no more capital (it will destroy or chase away what remains productive).

As B.A.S. has admitted, the thinking (attitude and circumstance) of Westerners is aligned with spiraling the abyss. I have observed such attitudes in my own family in the USA. CoinCube has an exceptionally erudite nuclear family and a high quality career path, so afaik he probably doesn't associate with the lowlife underbelly of our society in the USA (thus I think he may not be aware how widespread the underbelly is and how intractable the ingrained attitudes are). I am intimately familiar with the lowlifes. I should send him a link to a facebook profile with 100s of "gang banger" attitude Likes.

B.A.S. you want to think this is not doom, because you don't want to be depressed because apparently you are trapped. Reality is a bitch. Maybe you could get out if you made it one of your high priority goals.

Instead you (and perhaps CoinCube also) will waste 5 years attempting to organize a morass, and end up drowning in the flood of the end game contagion.

Remember as empires die, they WATERFALL collapse in chaos, then it is too late to plan and act.

Normally I try to take the balanced view that the cup is half empty. But one thing I can see clearly that we can't reorganize a collective morass. Collective morasses invariably crash and burn. I covered that in the Petri dish analogy in the "Undertand Everything Fundamentally" essay linked from the OP of this thread.

As the medical costs of the boomers entering end of life accelerate, the WATERFALL economic+societal collapse will be approached with increasing acceleration.

[iamback]

Their system is awesome because very few are utilizing the services that cost real money because they can't afford it so they die instead of being treated. Perhaps you think this is the way it should be?

Yes that is the ONLY way it IS. People have to be incentivized to save for their end of life. And to put effort into healthy living. Else suffer the outcome of their choices and priorities.

Society can attempt to change reality by expropriating with collectivized systems, but these INVARIABLY crash and burn. There are no exceptions since Mesopotamia.

The bankrupt universal health care systems of the West will end up killing everyone (when there is no more capital remaining to steal). We can't escape financial reality. Math is inviolable.

Water flows downhill. The path of least resistance wins. We don't live forever. Efficiency wins because life can't exist without friction. We can't live forever, because we couldn't exist if we did (try to figure that one out ).

Westerners are being taught the propaganda that they don't have to do self-responsibility because of the wealth disparity (high Gini index). This along with incorrect propaganda such as feminism, racism, anthropogenic climate change.

M-O-R-A-S-S

F.U.B.A.R.

[iamback]

I do not believe the current system is sustainable, but some of the Obamacare enactments will help forge a new direction for healthcare. A fundamental mind set change needs to happen (AKA a few generations need to die off with the newest generations begin taught a new way of thinking towards their health). What's troublesome for me is that the US healthcare system is not universally organized for set pricing. I don't get a larger salary because pricing increases. A heart surgery can run on the low end of $50K at a less known hospital to upwards of $150K at the best hospital with the most well known surgeon. In both cases, the docs know how to do the surgery, were trained identically; yet the price is different.

Healthcare is competitive in the US. Not only do they want you to pay for it, but on top of it; you have to pay TOP dollar to get expected care in these situations. This is not sustainable or dare I say 'fair' in a country where basic care is an unalienable right. I don't blame either side, but sometime long ago someone said basic healthcare was a right and now we are finding out how hard it is to live that statement when the "basic" component has been stretched to include everything from a routine physical to diabetes.

Massive overhauls need to happen with respect to surgeries, cancer, expensive treatments, ER visits, etc. This is where the money is being lost because the majority of Americans who get these procedures don't have a penny to pinch in regards to paying it off. If America operated like Singapore today, we would most likely have a healthier population who value their health more, but this is not the American mindset right now. Necessity is the mother of all invention.

B.A.S. not only that but you won't have a penny to pinch after the system expropriates everything you have, including your job, savings, pension, and home.

There won't be any new direction. The society will crash and burn, until some sectors organize and fight to break away from the rest of the USA. But that won't happen until after you have been expropriated. You and your like minded brethren won't get motivated to use guns to break away from the morass until you have been expropriated and are desperate.

Collectivized systems are not anti-fragile[1]. They don't adapt. They waterfall collapse.

[1] Taleb. http://longplayer.org/letters/to-stewart-brand/

[iamback]

Armstrong admits that most Americans can't migrate to Asia (with its very low crime, death penalty for drugs, strong families, and erudite youth) and suggests Central and South America (I also investigated these options, but drugs, laziness, and personal security is a problem in Latin America[1]):

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/03/where-can-we-flee-to-this-time/

One question a lot of people ask – where can we go this time? America was the place people fled to from Europe and the economic abuses. This is why the American people were such isolationists for World War I and II distinct and apart from its politicians. The politicians did everything to get Americans to support a war. Roosevelt even went to Boston to promise their sons would never go to Europe, just arms. The Irish were not very tolerant of defending Britain when they saw the English as the oppressors of the Irish that sent them fleeing to the States.

Asia may present some problems for any kind of a mass exodus. That really leaves Africa and South America. One of the best kept secrets was the fact that many Southern Confederates fled the USA upon losing the war and they took off to Brazil. To this very day they still celebrate the American Confederacy in Brazil.

...

So perhaps the only place left will be south of the border. Where American’s called Mexican’s swimming across the Rio Grand “wet backs”, they may apply the same term to Americans fleeing the new draconian America if the direction we fall is authoritarian rather than freedom – cómo está.

[1]	http://ferfal.blogspot.com/2014/11/rural-crime-keeps-getting-worse-what-do.html http://ferfal.blogspot.com/search/label/Self-Defense http://ferfal.blogspot.com/search/label/Argentine%20Collapse https://www.google.com/?q=site%3aferfal.blogspot.com%20doug%20casey

[iamback]

How the USA will force you back to the USA... (you won't be able to have a bank account or get any funds abroad)

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/02/how-to-run-a-government-for-dummies/

COMMENT: My wife took our 4-year old Alex to the bank today to open a savings account for him with his piggy bank of about 10k baht ($333.00). The teller noticed he was half Thai and asked if he was American, to which she said he was both Thai and American.

The teller: “We won’t open an account for him because we have to report him to the IRS.”

So my wife said “open it as a trust account as a Thai citizen.” The teller: “Can’t do that. It’s evading U.S. regulations.”

End result: Alex can’t open an account here.

Amazing, simply amazing.

[Brilliantrocket]

As B.A.S. has admitted, the thinking (attitude and circumstance) of Westerners is aligned with spiraling the abyss. I have observed such attitudes in my own family in the USA. CoinCube has an exceptionally erudite nuclear family and a high quality career path, so afaik he probably doesn't associate with the lowlife underbelly of our society in the USA (thus I think he may not be aware how widespread the underbelly is and how intractable the ingrained attitudes are). I am intimately familiar with the lowlifes. I should send him a link to a facebook profile with 100s of "gang banger" attitude Likes.

This is a good film for anyone not familiar with what the American underclass looks like. http://vimeo.com/118532076

Rather unsettling to see just how ubiquitous these attitudes are. With so many of these people, devoid of any productive capacity or purpose, coupled with the continuing trend of automation, it certainly seems like much of what you are saying is inevitable. I don't see how an increase in socialism can be avoided in this country.

[B.A.S.]

As B.A.S. has admitted, the thinking (attitude and circumstance) of Westerners is aligned with spiraling the abyss. I have observed such attitudes in my own family in the USA. CoinCube has an exceptionally erudite nuclear family and a high quality career path, so afaik he probably doesn't associate with the lowlife underbelly of our society in the USA (thus I think he may not be aware how widespread the underbelly is and how intractable the ingrained attitudes are). I am intimately familiar with the lowlifes. I should send him a link to a facebook profile with 100s of "gang banger" attitude Likes.

This is a good film for anyone not familiar with what the American underclass looks like. http://vimeo.com/118532076

Rather unsettling to see just how ubiquitous these attitudes are. With so many of these people, devoid of any productive capacity or purpose, coupled with the continuing trend of automation, it certainly seems like much of what you are saying is inevitable. I don't see how an increase in socialism can be avoided in this country.

I watched the film. It's a very good look at what drugs and alcohol can do to people as well as what a simple life outlook and philosophy looks like. Nothing wrong with the latter. The characters may not be the 'perfect' people, but I can assure you all that separates these people for many in the upperclasses is a higher level vernacular and better clothing. I've seen both and the sad part is they both end up looking more alike from a holistic perspective. Rich and poor people like drugs/alcohol equally.

I bet a lot of those guys in the video served in Vietnam. They were most likely upstanding young men who came back PTSD'd and shunned from their families. They fell in with some bad folks and here they are 20-40 years later.

Automation may wipe these people out from the job market, but most of America is not actually producing anything anyway. Money is being made on the transferring of money around and through its exportation to the World which is demanding USD. In years long ago, the US actually manufactured lots of things. Today it still does that, but on a very limited scale. People today are getting rich on the backs of others through financial markets with large lumps of cash and uneven odds.

[iamback]

I watched the film. It's a very good look at what drugs and alcohol can do to people as well as what a simple life outlook and philosophy looks like. Nothing wrong with the latter. The characters may not be the 'perfect' people, but I can assure you all that separates these people for many in the upperclasses is a higher level vernacular and better clothing. I've seen both and the sad part is they both end up looking more alike from a holistic perspective. Rich and poor people like drugs/alcohol equally.

Similarly and growing up in poverty in New Orleans, Baton Rouge and later the Philippines, I've experienced this life to some degree. Yet I also managed to have a 4.0 GPA from middle school through college (except for first semester in 10th grade of high school when I transferred from LA to CA, and was drunk many of the days of that semester yet still managed a 3.2 GPA for the semester and won JV League Champion in XCountry with a time of 16:40 for 3 miles). Also I took Calculus at night college while I was a senior in High School. In college I stopped going to class and was scoring in the high 90s for grades and for example I place in the top 3 out of 3 sections in Chemistry 101 at a major university (300 students).

What I see in that video is people who are playing out their life emotions, yet haven't been able to have the self-discipline to rise above their emotional issues and achieve. I've been so near to the top (as mentioned above, then creating million user software that impacted the world) yet also I've fallen into holes that have squandered much of my ability similar to how these people in the video have.

The difference is I am recognizing it and determined to get back to the top and this time all the way to the top and stay there. One of the key elements for achieving this, is I must not associate with people who do not have self-discipline. That is one the primary mistakes or factors that separates great success from mediocrity.

OTOH, I will say that these people are very interesting and colorful, and I actually love to interact with these people in short bursts. But I don't want to live with them and let my self-discipline slide into the abyss.

And yes, this is exactly the gang banger shit that teens drift into because they have no self-discipline and don't have the role models and environment to teach them how to have self-discipline.

And yes, America will decline severely after 2016 and a big washout of this underclass will ensue. I don't plan to be there for that.