Economic Devastation

[molecular]

Use the global blue market.

What's the 'blue market'?

[1714159475]

1714159475

[1714159475]

1714159475

[coinits]

if any of you were going to develop a cloud-based website with app for smart devices what platform and development software would you use? Conceptually, I know what I want but not sure what development software and tools to use.

[molecular]

if any of you were going to develop a cloud-based website with app for smart devices what platform and development software would you use? Conceptually, I know what I want but not sure what development software and tools to use.

depending on what you need natively on the device, a cordova-based framework like ionic could make sense. It allows to code in html5/js, so it's cheaper/easier to develop compared to making native apps for each target platform. Maybe also meteor might be an option.

For editing files you can use a text editor like sublime text

You will have to think about the server and db infrastructure, too.

[Erdogan]

Use the global blue market.

What's the 'blue market'?

The black market, without the hint to criminality or something unethical. Inspired by the Blue Dolar in Argentina, but I made it up. I now think that operating in the allegedly illegal market, while you otherwise refrain from violence and fraud, is ethical. And with some caution, not dangerous.

[mrhelpful]

few bullet points from an insider:

http://delphicoracle.weebly.com/cobra-conference-part-5.html

This has been one of my most interesting reads in awhile. Thank you.

Really?

like really?

"The Secret Space Program

Those living on Mars will demand payment soon! This involves refineries and mining companies.  Virtually no one knows about this aspect of the programme. Those who do know are afraid to speak out.
All countries are involved in very big debts, because real money went off Earth."

I get SpaceX is been doing incredible things, but we are no where near living on mars lol.

[Morbid]

few bullet points from an insider:

http://delphicoracle.weebly.com/cobra-conference-part-5.html

This has been one of my most interesting reads in awhile. Thank you.

Really?

like really?

"The Secret Space Program

Those living on Mars will demand payment soon! This involves refineries and mining companies.  Virtually no one knows about this aspect of the programme. Those who do know are afraid to speak out.
All countries are involved in very big debts, because real money went off Earth."

I get SpaceX is been doing incredible things, but we are no where near living on mars lol.

apparently secret space program been running for over 50 years now. there is this guy richard dolan who did an in depth investigation on this subject few years back.. also we cant see everything being here in 3D.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NazOkcWF0E0

[vokain]

few bullet points from an insider:

http://delphicoracle.weebly.com/cobra-conference-part-5.html

This has been one of my most interesting reads in awhile. Thank you.

Really?

like really?

"The Secret Space Program

Those living on Mars will demand payment soon! This involves refineries and mining companies.  Virtually no one knows about this aspect of the programme. Those who do know are afraid to speak out.
All countries are involved in very big debts, because real money went off Earth."

I get SpaceX is been doing incredible things, but we are no where near living on mars lol.

apparently secret space program been running for over 50 years now. there is this guy richard dolan who did an in depth investigation on this subject few years back.. also we cant see everything being here in 3D.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Richard+Dolan+Secret+Space+Program

I ran into this guy's bio not too long ago:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Mitchell

[Morbid]

dont forget that these guys are under huge amount of pressure being all aware that accidents happen to family too. its a burden in a way and many perished in the past just like that.

[coinits]

if any of you were going to develop a cloud-based website with app for smart devices what platform and development software would you use? Conceptually, I know what I want but not sure what development software and tools to use.

depending on what you need natively on the device, a cordova-based framework like ionic could make sense. It allows to code in html5/js, so it's cheaper/easier to develop compared to making native apps for each target platform. Maybe also meteor might be an option.

For editing files you can use a text editor like sublime text

You will have to think about the server and db infrastructure, too.

Thanks for that. For the DB I have no problem using either MS SQL or MySQL. I do have more experience with MS SQL though. Now I have some research to do.

[techgeek]

few bullet points from an insider:

http://delphicoracle.weebly.com/cobra-conference-part-5.html

This has been one of my most interesting reads in awhile. Thank you.

Really?

like really?

"The Secret Space Program

Those living on Mars will demand payment soon! This involves refineries and mining companies.  Virtually no one knows about this aspect of the programme. Those who do know are afraid to speak out.
All countries are involved in very big debts, because real money went off Earth."

I get SpaceX is been doing incredible things, but we are no where near living on mars lol.

apparently secret space program been running for over 50 years now. there is this guy richard dolan who did an in depth investigation on this subject few years back.. also we cant see everything being here in 3D.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Richard+Dolan+Secret+Space+Program

I ran into this guy's bio not too long ago:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Mitchell

Shit, Id be lucky to live that long though, if that happens.

Its more like my grand grand kids will see earth from mars. But who knows, maybe I can see it, I`m in my late 20`s.

[rpietila]

I now think that operating in the allegedly illegal market, while you otherwise refrain from violence and fraud, is ethical. And with some caution, not dangerous.

When the law conflicts with morality, you need to either compromise your morality, or disregard the law.

(I, for one, am not into watering down my morality, no matter what gains are to be had for doing it, or what dangers await for those not doing it)

Original Bastiat quote:
When law and morality contradict each other, the citizen has the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense or losing his respect for the law

[Erdogan]

I now think that operating in the allegedly illegal market, while you otherwise refrain from violence and fraud, is ethical. And with some caution, not dangerous.

When the law conflicts with morality, you need to either compromise your morality, or disregard the law.

(I, for one, am not into watering down my morality, no matter what gains are to be had for doing it, or what dangers await for those not doing it)

Original Bastiat quote:
When law and morality contradict each other, the citizen has the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense or losing his respect for the law

Right.

[TPTB_need_war]

I now think that operating in the allegedly illegal market, while you otherwise refrain from violence and fraud, is ethical. And with some caution, not dangerous.

When the law conflicts with morality, you need to either compromise your morality, or disregard the law.

(I, for one, am not into watering down my morality, no matter what gains are to be had for doing it, or what dangers await for those not doing it)

Original Bastiat quote:
When law and morality contradict each other, the citizen has the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense or losing his respect for the law

Morals are one person's arbitrary religion (i.e. conflicting unfalsifiable opinions) versus another.

Rather I would replace the word morality with ethics. Ethical standards exist because they are consistently and congruently win-win (or at least that is how I unambiguously define ethics).

What you are really asserting here is that when society has become dysfunctional, the ethical option is to opt-out in order to promote win-win directions.

Some can argue that there is no clear win-win, because there are always some losers (in the near-term). I think in every case we can drill down and reason out how ethical choices are really win-win for everyone despite some shifts and inconveniences.

For example, many in this thread have argued that anonymity and pursuing maximum division-of-labor and automation in the coming Knowledge Age would render many people jobless. What they fail to realize is that those jobs are already unprofitable and bankrupted. It is only the $227 trillion global debt bubble that has misallocated capital (destroyed that capital) and sustained uneconomic activities. Thus the sooner they are forced to adjust and retrain (or train their offspring), the sooner the world moves away from the abyss and towards prosperity.

[7thKingdom]

Anonymint, you clearly don't believe in socialism, yet you clearly also believe many (most?) current jobs are at best pointless and at worst actually harmful to productivity and moving the human race forward.  So my question is, what do we do with the masses in this future of high technological unemployment?

I understand that in any system there will be winners and losers (at least in the short term as you say).  That is necessary and any system that attempts to totally avoid that is doomed from the start.  But at what point is enough enough and the "losers" should be given some help?  Is there any point where you believe there should be a social safety net?  Or are you of the opinion that they should all just be thrown to the wolves and left to fend for themselves and adapt or else?

[rpietila]

So my question is, what do we do with the masses in this future of high technological unemployment?

The question is incorrectly framed. The whole picture is below:

What stuff do people need for their living?
- food
- shelter
- transportation
- physical things
- immaterial things
- services

Physical things have already become unbelievably cheaper compared to 300 years ago, so that ordinary people own infinitely more possessions than people then did, yet the resale value of a typical estate is near zero.

Immaterial things are free to duplicate, so they are often free and without IPR's the rest would become even cheaper as well.

Food is problematic, because TPTB has a grip on the production, causing bad quality and hindering subsistence farming. I envision a world where the number of manhours spent on farming would somewhat increase from the current, and food would be much better quality than before. Exact ways how to achieve this are more detailed than the scope here. To get high-quality food, human labor is likely irreplaceable, but then again gardening is fun.

Transportation is dependent on energy. So as energy becomes cheaper, transportation will as well. It can get more automated as well. Also the communications and 3-D printing reduce the need of physical transportation of people and goods.

Shelter has become the most expensive need to satisfy, due to the vast improvement in living standards, and also suffocating regulations. There is much to improve in efficiency and variety in housing conditions, regardless of the standard of luxury and convenience.

Services are the balance item. All production in excess of satisfying the physical needs and wants (including the immaterial things) is naturally attracted to services, which are upper-bounded by the number of people, and whose productivity can only moderately be increased by advances in technology. (This is a circular definition, because I define "services" to include the activity that fulfills this criterion, and other production being the domain where progress can increase efficiency by leaps and bounds.)

If we accept that the concentration of both financial and knowledge capital leads to the "dystopian" state of affairs that all other production except services was owned by very few, and employing almost nobody, this will not lead to the outcome that everyone else would live in abject poverty and misery.

Why would they? The production of everything that people need has increased per capita, and people have a limit how much they can rationally use. For the owner class to further increase their standard of living, they want to employ the "rest of us" in the service sector, and the wages they need to competitively offer, will be spent by the people to acquire the basic needs of living that the owner class is producing. Without this exchange, the owner class would be bereft of their services, and would have nobody to buy their goods, clearly an illogical outcome.

I posit that the state is currently consuming most of the resources that could be used for production of services, for their myopic attempts of maintaining "full employment" by employing people in sectors that don't produce anything of value (or even negative value) - in the west the main ones are government bureaucracy, "welfare", "education", "healthcare" and war industry. If we got rid of these, up to 80% of the people would not need to work, yet the production would increase as the monopolies, regulations, etc. would be dissolved. The rich and the knowledgeable would get richer and enjoy life much more, but also the vast majority would see their living standard and especially quality of life improved greatly, after a transition period of course (it is not realistic to assume that a change of this magnitude could happen instantly and learnign to live in freedom will certainly be an inconvenient or even painful experience to many who are not used to it).

TL; DR: There is nothing new under the sun. What the luddites of today fear, has been proved wrong every time there was any advance in efficiency since the dawn of mankind. Now we even have a huge reserve of pent-up production capacity, because most of the people of today are just working in the system doing nothing of value. With the release of these people, the future looks brighter than most of us can even imagine.


Further reading: Henry Hazlitt, Economics in One Lesson (1946), ISBN 978-193355021-3

All above-temporary unemployment is always caused by the deficiencies of the system. In the future people will both need to work way less (eg. only a few years in their life, or a few hours in a week) and still enjoy a higher standard of living. The system is just postponing the realization of the gains in productivity that have already happened.

[G2M]

TL; DR: There is nothing new under the sun. What the luddites of today fear, has been proved wrong every time there was any advance in efficiency since the dawn of mankind. Now we even have a huge reserve of pent-up production capacity, because most of the people of today are just working in the system doing nothing of value. With the release of these people, the future looks brighter than most of us can even imagine.

What type of production capacity? Are you talking about manufacturing?

[mrhelpful]

TL; DR: There is nothing new under the sun. What the luddites of today fear, has been proved wrong every time there was any advance in efficiency since the dawn of mankind. Now we even have a huge reserve of pent-up production capacity, because most of the people of today are just working in the system doing nothing of value. With the release of these people, the future looks brighter than most of us can even imagine.

What type of production capacity? Are you talking about manufacturing?

Manufacturing is never going to come back.

Its replaced by our tech with machines, and other assembly stuff is done with china. The more things you see automated, the more jobs are cut like those cashier people.

[CoinCube]

I now think that operating in the allegedly illegal market, while you otherwise refrain from violence and fraud, is ethical. And with some caution, not dangerous.

This level of naiveté is unwise.
For those who have not read it I recommend  

The Rise & Fall of Silk Road

Blatant defiance of the state is for most a recipe for disaster. The government chose to limit themselves to Ulbricht and a couple of his lieutenants. Much much more was possible.

[coinits]

I now think that operating in the allegedly illegal market, while you otherwise refrain from violence and fraud, is ethical. And with some caution, not dangerous.

This level of naiveté is unwise.
For those who have not read it I recommend  

The Rise & Fall of Silk Road


Blatant defiance of the state is a recipe for disaster for most people. The government chose to limit themselves to Ulbricht and a couple of his lieutenants. Much much more was possible.

And now Ulbricht is begging for mercy. He says he admits that he was wrong, and directed his talents and energies inappropriately. What choice does he have? He has been found guilty and could be sentenced to life in prison with no chance of parole.

It is ironic that the largest drug dealers on the planet are the US govt and they were just rooting out their competition.

I am interested to hear how TBTB will evaluate this because in his quest for anonymity in the knowledge age buying and selling drugs over the digital pipeline is ones own choice. While I somewhat agree what is to stop little Johnny ripping off his parents getting some BTC and then buying some cocaine?

[OROBTC]

...

Waving a red flag in front of the Big Rhino (US Government) is never a good idea.

In 1930s after Roosevelt made gold illegal, only ONE person was ever prosecuted, even though I have seen an estimate that they only got about 10% - 20% of the gold...  The guy they DID arrest was making a lot of noise, waving red flags...

And, keep in mind that they are looking out for THEIR interests much more than they are looking out for us.

*   *   *

But, Erdogan is right that the probability of getting arrested for minor crimes (buying black market goods) is rather low.  Also note that in the USSR, the Communists deliberately made many laws contradictory so they could pick you up at any time for any reason.

The USA has not arrived at that point yet.