New Ixcoin fork -> I0coin

[Bobnova]

More like a $100 check and a five cent fee.

[lightlord]

Doublec I thought of something, What if you make it; that if someone wants to do a transaction over 10BTC you manually check yourself; not everyone does this; so it wouldn't be as much work.

And if someone spams 5btc or something then you can check that and halt it.
Just a thought; so next time when this double spending attack occurs;
it will be only 10btc or so; and not 192BTC.

For any withdraws over 10BTC you check yourself.
It will cut like 95% of work. And it should be possible.

And a 48 hour withdraw as well; make that automatic, and over 10btc manual;
And if someone spams, you should be easily able to see yourself; and 48 hours is reasonable.

Maybe this will work?

I still have 5btc donation offer; if you get the i0coin bitparking exchange back up.


Or make a daily withdrawal limit; like 10BTC and if i go over it; you manually check yourself to see if its legit or a attack.

[MaGNeT]

Doublec I thought of something, What if you make it; that if someone wants to do a transaction over 10BTC you manually check yourself; not everyone does this; so it wouldn't be as much work.

And if someone spams 5btc or something then you can check that and halt it.
Just a thought; so next time when this double spending attack occurs;
it will be only 10btc or so; and not 192BTC.

For any withdraws over 10BTC you check yourself.
It will cut like 95% of work. And it should be possible.

And a 48 hour withdraw as well; make that automatic, and over 10btc manual;
And if someone spams, you should be easily able to see yourself; and 48 hours is reasonable.

Maybe this will work?

I still have 5btc donation offer; if you get the i0coin bitparking exchange back up.


Or make a daily withdrawal limit; like 10BTC and if i go over it; you manually check yourself to see if its legit or a attack.

I think DoubleC doesn't stay up 24/7...

[doublec]

For any withdraws over 10BTC you check yourself.
...
Or make a daily withdrawal limit; like 10BTC and if i go over it; you manually check yourself to see if its legit or a attack.

This doesn't work in the presence of a >51% attacker either. This is one example of how an attack works:

1) Start mining from the current block but don't publish the blocks to the network.
2) Make a deposit.
3) Don't include your deposit transaction in the fork you are mining in (1) but include all others.
4) When the deposit clears trade for bitcoins.
5) Withdraw bitcoins.
6) When the bitcoin withdraw succeeds, publish your forked chain.
7) Since the new fork doesn't include your deposit you can repeat from (1) re-using the coins in the transaction you didn't include in the fork.

It doesn't matter how long I delay the withdrawal in (5) since they can wait as long as needed before doing (6). The only thing that upsets their plans is if the network hash rate increases and their fork is no longer the winning fork. But that's still no loss to them since they still have the bitcoins. They can buy more alternate coins and repeat until they succeed. This attack can easily be automated.

This is difficult to spot for exchanges unless they're monitoring chain reorg's and then check all transactions in the new chain. Even then it's too late and the bitcoins are gone and can't be recovered. If the exchange doesn't notice then at some point they run out of bitcoins and wonder why. The I0Coin exchange was monitoring chain reorg's but unfortunately I didn't catch on to what was happening until the 4th attempt or so due to me traveling and not being able to analyze it in detail.

Tying an exchange user to a verified identity would help since then the exchange user has to come up with verified identities to keep cheating the system, assuming the exchange bans accounts when it notices missing transactions after a chain reorg.

[doublec]

What are thoughts on this possible fix for the issues of having an exchange safely operate in a low hash rate system. Centralize the block chain around the exchange.

The exchange can broadcast a message, signed by a private key, that contains the latest checkpoint that the exchange wants to lock in. It broadcasts this message whenever it confirms a deposit (ie. a deposit reaches the number of confirmation blocks the exchange requires).  Nodes then automatically get updated with the block chain the exchange is using and refuse reorganizations beyond this check point.

[EskimoBob]

Where did all my i0coins go from i0exchange.bitparking.com?

[sd]

What are thoughts on this possible fix for the issues of having an exchange safely operate in a low hash rate system. Centralize the block chain around the exchange.

The exchange can broadcast a message, signed by a private key, that contains the latest checkpoint that the exchange wants to lock in. It broadcasts this message whenever it confirms a deposit (ie. a deposit reaches the number of confirmation blocks the exchange requires).  Nodes then automatically get updated with the block chain the exchange is using and refuse reorganizations beyond this check point.

Do that and you fix one problem at the cost of no longer having a peer-2-peer currency. The exchanges should not be trusted any more than anyone else.

[twobits]

What are thoughts on this possible fix for the issues of having an exchange safely operate in a low hash rate system. Centralize the block chain around the exchange.

The exchange can broadcast a message, signed by a private key, that contains the latest checkpoint that the exchange wants to lock in. It broadcasts this message whenever it confirms a deposit (ie. a deposit reaches the number of confirmation blocks the exchange requires).  Nodes then automatically get updated with the block chain the exchange is using and refuse reorganizations beyond this check point.

My initial thoughts:

It should be a new blockchain if it is tried out.  It would be preferable to somehow have it be a confederacy of exchanges and/or maybe pools so it is not totally dependent on one site.

[PatrickHarnett]

ixcoins and i0coins could be worthless - that should not be a surprise to anyone, it is a high risk area to play in and no one should be upset over the loss (or perceived loss).  I have some coins, even some SC 1.0's and namecoins sitting around somewhere, and will probably never do anything with them. 

DoubleC isn't forcing anyone to withdraw their coins, and if someone wanted to pay his costs of keeping the exchange open (but not trading), then the coins could sit there, but that doesn't make sense.

[doublec]

It should be a new blockchain if it is tried out.  It would be preferable to somehow have it be a confederacy of exchanges and/or maybe pools so it is not totally dependent on one site.

Right, I'm throwing out ideas for low hash rate chains moreso than 'fix i0coin'. I agree about a confederacy of exchanges/pools. Maybe have some way of all nodes voting to accept the message? Currently a low number of nodes with large hash power have a big impact on what gets accepted on the network. It'd be nice to be able to move this to all nodes somehow.

[doublec]

Where did all my i0coins go from i0exchange.bitparking.com?

it's hard to answer this without more information. Are you saying your balance is lower than you thought? If so email admin@bitparking.com with details.

[Bobnova]

Personally I wouldn't at all mind if exchanges ran pools to protect the network.
Without exchanges coins are essentially useless, so making some concessions to ensure usefulness (read:  profit) makes sense to me.

[lightlord]

i0coin is up to 16 giga hash; and it is going up. Doublec you said if enough hash rate u will put it back up;
it is doubled of 8.

And more and more is joining. Get it up.
We all want it back.

Its 17.7 giga hash now
http://allchains.info/

[MaGNeT]

i0coin is up to 16 giga hash; and it is going up. Doublec you said if enough hash rate u will put it back up;
it is doubled of 8.

And more and more is joining. Get it up.
We all want it back.

Its 17.7 giga hash now
http://allchains.info/

It would need at least 100Gigahash to be anywhere in a safe zone...

[LoupGaroux]

I think 100 Ghash could be setting the bar too low. The scumbag element could easily bot up or brute force mine 51% of that number too easily. We probably need to talk something on the order of a Thash or more to take it away from the jag bags.

That being said, its a commitment of 1 Ghash of mining from 1,000 miners. That ought to be doable. I remember seeing averages rates around 50+ over the past two weeks... who wants to throw down a Ghash? I'll dedicate one to the effort, let's see if we can't get a couple of hundred to show its worthwhile pursuing.

[Remember remember the 5th of November]

Anyone have a link to the windows binary?

[RandyFolds]

I think 100 Ghash could be setting the bar too low. The scumbag element could easily bot up or brute force mine 51% of that number too easily. We probably need to talk something on the order of a Thash or more to take it away from the jag bags.

That being said, its a commitment of 1 Ghash of mining from 1,000 miners. That ought to be doable. I remember seeing averages rates around 50+ over the past two weeks... who wants to throw down a Ghash? I'll dedicate one to the effort, let's see if we can't get a couple of hundred to show its worthwhile pursuing.

You really think i0coin, started as a joke, is worth a whole terahash of processing power?

[tacotime]

It's going up?  I have hundreds of these in a wallet on one of my backup drives

[LoupGaroux]

You really think i0coin, started as a joke, is worth a whole terahash of processing power?

Depends, if we have a whole lot of happy campers who are willing to devote the cycles to mining it, and an exchange where other happy campers are willing to trade for it, who is to say the joke hasn't adopted a life of its own? It's as legit as any of the other crypto-comedy-coins that we have out there, and if the common belief is that they will be trade-able, then we ought to do it at a level where ass-hats can't come in and screw it up with their desperate pleas for recognition by destroying it.

And my guess is that would be around a terahash.

I've thrown a Ghash or so at it for the past several hours few hours and now have several thousand more. Maybe I'm doubling down on a stupid move, or maybe I'm stealing candy from a kid. Time will tell.

[PatrickHarnett]

awww, if you start mining it, it'll make it harder for me (lol)

I do a little i0coin mining each day for fun - I see it as a random interval generator - time between blocks doing some solo-mining.  It might be worth nothing, or next to nothing.