Meanwhile in Ukraine... Revolution.

[Wilikon]

government forces raiding the offices of the opposition Batkivshchyna party:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDB5TI5UFPA

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[bryant.coleman]

It might seem outrageous. But at this point, I think the only solution to end this crisis is to partition Ukraine to the East and the West.

[Wilikon]

It might seem outrageous. But at this point, I think the only solution to end this crisis is to partition Ukraine to the East and the West.

And were exactly would you draw that line? Better yet who would hold the pen on the map to make that split? A Russian hand or a pro EU hand?
This idea is not that outrageous. This is how a lot of Africa's countries were created: from the pen strokes of European powers.

[Ecurb123]

I'm sorry I have no been following this issue, can someone give me the low-down.

[bryant.coleman]

And were exactly would you draw that line?

Include all provinces won by Yanukovych in the East. Include those won by Tymoshenko, Klitschko and Svoboda on the West.

We should not forget that the main reason for people both supporting and opposing on Ukraine joining the EU is economical.

Eastern Ukraine (especially Donetsk) depends heavily on subsidized Russian gas for its metal industries. If Ukraine joins the EU, millions of people there will be left without a livelihood.

On the other hand, Western Ukraine lacks big industries and have remained as one of the poorest regions of Europe. If Ukraine joins the EU, Western Ukrainians can migrate to UK or Germany to earn a living.

[Wilikon]

And were exactly would you draw that line?

Include all provinces won by Yanukovych in the East. Include those won by Tymoshenko, Klitschko and Svoboda on the West.

We should not forget that the main reason for people both supporting and opposing on Ukraine joining the EU is economical.

Eastern Ukraine (especially Donetsk) depends heavily on subsidized Russian gas for its metal industries. If Ukraine joins the EU, millions of people there will be left without a livelihood.

On the other hand, Western Ukraine lacks big industries and have remained as one of the poorest regions of Europe. If Ukraine joins the EU, Western Ukrainians can migrate to UK or Germany to earn a living.

There is another great solution for Ukraine without bringing a permanent split across the country.... Yep:

Ukraine[edit]
Ukraine has Europe's 3rd largest shale gas reserves at 42 trillion cubic feet (1.2 trillion cubic meters).[97][98]
Shale gas discoveries are potentially changing the game. Shell has signed on to explore an area that government estimates indicate could have 113 Bcm (4 Tcf) in reserves.
Lijdsman wrote that the country’s gas reserves have geologic similarities to its neighbor Poland, and the Lublin basin could be 10 to 15 times the size of the Barnett shale. It also suffers less from population and water issues that plague its neighbor to the northwest.
But it suffers from the same bureaucratic issues that affect many other countries with shale deposits. “Lousy domestic policy remains the single greatest impediment to gas investments in Ukraine,” Edward Chow, a senior fellow at the Center of Strategic and International Studies, told Lijdsman.
Despite these issues, Chevron is proceeding with its plans to explore for shale in the Olesska field in the west of the country, according to Reuters. A government draft for a $10 billion shale gas production-sharing agreement has been approved. The draft will be sent to the Cabinet of Ministers for a signature, the article states. Royal Dutch Shell received a shale agreement with the government earlier this year to explore in Yuzivska in the eastern part of the country. The two projects could result in 11 Bcm to 16 Bcm (388 Bcf to 563 Bcf) within five years, according to Reuters.[99]

[bryant.coleman]

There is another great solution for Ukraine without bringing a permanent split across the country.... Yep:

They have just started their exploration. It will take at least two decades before the rigs are created, pipelines are built and the first shipment is done.  Ukraine is in no position to shut down its steel and other heavy metal industries, especially when the economy is in all sorts of trouble.

[babeq]

Someof my friends from University, now can't leave Ukraina and lost his scientific visa, because they were on th demonstradion and milice caught them. Thats so sick...

[Wilikon]

Someof my friends from University, now can't leave Ukraina and lost his scientific visa, because they were on th demonstradion and milice caught them. Thats so sick...

If you are ready to die for a cause you should not act like a cry baby when you get caught. If they truly believed in the cause that is.

[quone17]

My understanding is that it was expected the Ukrainian President would sign a trade law favorable to the EU but instead signed one favorable to Russia.  There has been a simmering tension I think due to the prior 2 elections where a former presidential candidate was arrested and I think is under arrest or house arrest right now.  so the situation has been precarious for a while.

[jones31]

And were exactly would you draw that line?

Include all provinces won by Yanukovych in the East. Include those won by Tymoshenko, Klitschko and Svoboda on the West.

We should not forget that the main reason for people both supporting and opposing on Ukraine joining the EU is economical.

Eastern Ukraine (especially Donetsk) depends heavily on subsidized Russian gas for its metal industries. If Ukraine joins the EU, millions of people there will be left without a livelihood.

On the other hand, Western Ukraine lacks big industries and have remained as one of the poorest regions of Europe. If Ukraine joins the EU, Western Ukrainians can migrate to UK or Germany to earn a living.

Right now Ukraine is paying more per m3 of gas than Germany to the PutinBear.
So , I think they will be better of in the EU.

Also , taking into account the medium salary and the fact that taxes will drop for .ua imports they will be attract investors who are already tired of China , but can't relocate back yet due to the wages in the EU countries.

[Kiki112]

They should protest  because bitcoin went under 1k $
Bring the bitcoin up, start the revolution o7

[mistress_magpie]

Part of Bitcoin's promise is a strengthening of groups protesting against dictatorship.. Bitcoin supporters should be aware of such protesters, and support them.

[bryant.coleman]

Gas reserves + revolution's getting awful popular, maybe the fumes send people mad or something. Screw both of them, sign up with glorious peoples republic of China instead and raise a real shitstorm

China is already buying up all the quality farmland in Ukraine for a few pennies per acre. Not only in Ukraine, they have also bought farmland in may other smaller European nations.

[jones31]

Gas reserves + revolution's getting awful popular, maybe the fumes send people mad or something. Screw both of them, sign up with glorious peoples republic of China instead and raise a real shitstorm

China is already buying up all the quality farmland in Ukraine for a few pennies per acre. Not only in Ukraine, they have also bought farmland in may other smaller European nations.

Please don't tell me you actually trust those news about China buying 40% or so of the total agricultural land in Ukraine....

[Jcw188]

Gas reserves + revolution's getting awful popular, maybe the fumes send people mad or something. Screw both of them, sign up with glorious peoples republic of China instead and raise a real shitstorm

China is already buying up all the quality farmland in Ukraine for a few pennies per acre. Not only in Ukraine, they have also bought farmland in may other smaller European nations.

Please don't tell me you actually trust those news about China buying 40% or so of the total agricultural land in Ukraine....

I don't know about that but I do believe China has invested heavily in Iraq and Africa.  It's clear they are trying to widen their sphere of influence but I think they're trying to do it silently.

[XBBlade]

The new iron curtain

[bryant.coleman]

I don't know about that but I do believe China has invested heavily in Iraq and Africa.  It's clear they are trying to widen their sphere of influence but I think they're trying to do it silently.

I think they are harmlessly trying to dump their excess male population. Angola is a classical case.

[Wilikon]

I don't know about that but I do believe China has invested heavily in Iraq and Africa.  It's clear they are trying to widen their sphere of influence but I think they're trying to do it silently.

I think they are harmlessly trying to dump their excess male population. Angola is a classical case.

"harmlessly trying to dump their excess male population". You meant after China harmlessly destroyed the natural male/female ratio with their one child policy?

[Wilikon]

I don't know about that but I do believe China has invested heavily in Iraq and Africa.  It's clear they are trying to widen their sphere of influence but I think they're trying to do it silently.

I think they are harmlessly trying to dump their excess male population. Angola is a classical case.

"harmlessly trying to dump their excess male population". You meant after China harmlessly destroyed the natural male/female ratio with their one child policy?

Hell yes, there was some nasty shit going on for a while as female children weren't exactly popular. Maybe a lot of that was media hype but the imbalance is something like 3 to 1.

Not just media hype.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISme5-9orR0