Meanwhile in Ukraine... Revolution.

[Balthazar]

Colonel Obama

[Nemo1024]

While I agree with this view largely, can you please give your sources for the "three options" you mentioned?  As far as I know, there were only two options offered on the poll (stay with Ukraine but institute a constitution that gives parliament the right to secede, and join with Russia).  "Leave everything as is" was not offered.

Would it not have been possible to vote blank, effectively both against seceding from Ukraine and against joining Russia? I am thinking a binary truth table here.
If not, then my statement in the previous previous post was incorrect.

[domob]

While I agree with this view largely, can you please give your sources for the "three options" you mentioned?  As far as I know, there were only two options offered on the poll (stay with Ukraine but institute a constitution that gives parliament the right to secede, and join with Russia).  "Leave everything as is" was not offered.

Would it not have been possible to vote blank, effectively both against seceding from Ukraine and against joining Russia? I am thinking a binary truth table here.
If not, then my statement in the previous previous post was incorrect.

Well yes, of course.  But presumably that might have been a "statement", but such votes would surely have been ignored for the decision.  (As they are in parliamentary elections in Austria and probably everywhere around the world.)

[Balthazar]

Actually I would prefer to vote for the second option (restore the 1992 constitution) because it provides incredible autonomy. But it seems that local popupation doesn't want to have any relation with Kiev, even as a formality.

[Balthazar]

Well yes, of course.  But presumably that might have been a "statement", but such votes would surely have been ignored for the decision.  (As they are in parliamentary elections in Austria and probably everywhere around the world.)

If 50% +1 of bulletins are invalid or left blank then it assumed that referendum or elections didn't took place, it's almost identical to vote against all options.

[Balthazar]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/03/16/crimea-vote-_n_4975678.html

Ahaha good sample of propaganda

1) "No observers" statement;
2) Ukrainian tank column video with "Russian occupation" comment.

Huffington Post, you've got a prize.  

[fsb4000]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/03/16/crimea-vote-_n_4975678.html

Ahaha good sample of propaganda

"No observers" statement + Ukrainian tank column video with "Russian occupation" comment. Huffington Post, you've got a prize.  

Text: "Russia can capture a European country using only monuments."

[Balthazar]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/03/16/crimea-vote-_n_4975678.html

Ahaha good sample of propaganda

"No observers" statement + Ukrainian tank column video with "Russian occupation" comment. Huffington Post, you've got a prize.  

Text: "Russia can capture a European country using only monuments."

Any joke contains some truth. Tanks on these monuments are usually in working condition, but without fuel and ammunition.

[Nemo1024]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/03/16/crimea-vote-_n_4975678.html

Ahaha good sample of propaganda

1) "No observers" statement;
2) Ukrainian tank column video with "Russian occupation" comment.

Huffington Post, you've got a prize.  

They can huff and they can puff but they will not blow Crimea down.

Russia should actually issue economic sanctions against US and European states for double morale.

In other news that don't add up:
- Ukrainian Rada has registered a law proposition to break diplomatic relations with Russia
- Russia allowed Ukrainian, as well as German-Arerican flight groups and inspection flight over Russian territory to inspect any traces "undeclared military activity"

[Balthazar]

So according to your own rules, that referendum was illegitimate.

According to my rules?   Try to read something better than BBC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legitimacy_(political)

The population of Crimea is just a small minority compared to the rest of the Ukraine.

It's a regional referendum, only Crimea population should be allowed to decide their own fate. Otherwise it would a be legal, but illegitimate referendum. Illegal & legitimate much better than legal & illegitimate.

and he used the Berkut and other paid troops to rule by force

Lol, Hans Christian Andersen: Fairy Tales and Stories?  

1) If you really believe that special forces were unable to resolve such type of problem, then you have never seen this guys in action. Less than 15 minutes would be required to resolve this by force, and nobody would be able to resist. Don't be a fool repeating such stupid propaganda.

2) That's a pure lie from a fascist so-called government, he didn't that. He would be able to take down an "opposition" in any moment, but he chose the dialogue instead. That's why he signed an agreement for early elections.

Yanukovych's rule was also illegal and illegitimate.

Who said you that? CNN, BBC or FoxNews? Do they understand what the word "legitimate" means?

He was legal and legitimate president.

1) legal because his elections were fair, it was confirmed by EU and US observers;
2) legitimate because he had a major support by people.

If you are disagree with that, then proove your point of view with something more sensible than "he was not democratic", "he was a dictator", "he own biological weapon" or another shit from the media.

He was not democratic.

Blah blah blah... Do you have something except democracy in your consciousness?

Russia is not a democracy anyway

... because you say that, right?   Tell me, where do you seen the democracy? I want some good laugh.

so what the fuck do they know about "democratic" leadership?

Maybe because their level of education allows them to do so? By the way, you need to know that "legitimacy" and "legality" have absolutely no relation with the democracy... It's possible to create a non-democratic*, legal and legitimate government. Is that a surprise for you?

You guys should stop trying to lecture everyone.

Try to dedicate some time to education, this would be much better than such ignorant advice. If you are not able to understand the basics of sociology, then you have a serious problem.

You're even worse than the Americans.

You have to tell the same to your tutor.

----

* See any absolute monarchy. It's the best known example of legitimate, legal and non-democratic government.

[hdbuck]

@balthazar +1 - proper execution.

[Balthazar]

Just tired of "blahblahblah democracy blahblahblah dictator".

[hdbuck]

yea tell me about it.
plus, coming from a guy with "blablahblah" as a nick really pins the tail on the donkey

[Wilikon]

                                             

[bryant.coleman]

What about the Tatar ethnic minority? The people who would have been the natural majority of Crimea if they hadn't mostly been killed or driven away by Russian imperialists.

The Crimean Tatars enslaved, butchered and destroyed the Russians for almost 400 years, until Russia defeated them in 1783. However, they were allowed to stay in Crimea as Russian citizens. Currently, they comprise 10-12% of the population.

On the other hand, the American Indians warmly welcomed the European migrants in the 16th century when they first arrived at Massachusetts. In return, they were massacred and forcibly assimilated using inhuman means. Until the 1970s Indian children were banned from speaking their native language, which has resulted in the extinction of 99% of the Indian languages.

The Indians also would have been the natural majority of the US, if they were not killed off by the colonists.

[dKingston]

What about the Tatar ethnic minority? The people who would have been the natural majority of Crimea if they hadn't mostly been killed or driven away by Russian imperialists.

The Crimean Tatars enslaved, butchered and destroyed the Russians for almost 400 years, until Russia defeated them in 1783. However, they were allowed to stay in Crimea as Russian citizens. Currently, they comprise 10-12% of the population.

On the other hand, the American Indians warmly welcomed the European migrants in the 16th century when they first arrived at Massachusetts. In return, they were massacred and forcibly assimilated using inhuman means. Until the 1970s Indian children were banned from speaking their native language, which has resulted in the extinction of 99% of the Indian languages.

The Indians also would have been the natural majority of the US, if they were not killed off by the colonists.

So true, the irony. 

[niothor]

What about the Tatar ethnic minority? The people who would have been the natural majority of Crimea if they hadn't mostly been killed or driven away by Russian imperialists.

The Crimean Tatars enslaved, butchered and destroyed the Russians for almost 400 years, until Russia defeated them in 1783. However, they were allowed to stay in Crimea as Russian citizens. Currently, they comprise 10-12% of the population.

On the other hand, the American Indians warmly welcomed the European migrants in the 16th century when they first arrived at Massachusetts. In return, they were massacred and forcibly assimilated using inhuman means. Until the 1970s Indian children were banned from speaking their native language, which has resulted in the extinction of 99% of the Indian languages.

The Indians also would have been the natural majority of the US, if they were not killed off by the colonists.

Population of Crimea. Not of whole Russia. They are less than 3% now. The same numbers as american natives in the Us. (if we talk about combined races also) around 2%

[bryant.coleman]

Population of Crimea. Not of whole Russia. They are less than 3% now. The same numbers as american natives in the Us. (if we talk about combined races also) around 2%

Crimean Tatars are about 10-12% of the population of Crimea, and that would make 0.1-0.2% of the population of Russia.

[niothor]

Population of Crimea. Not of whole Russia. They are less than 3% now. The same numbers as american natives in the Us. (if we talk about combined races also) around 2%

Crimean Tatars are about 10-12% of the population of Crimea, and that would make 0.1-0.2% of the population of Russia.

Just what I was saying.  Just pointing things out in your posts.
 

[Bit_Happy]

[EDITORIAL] Crimean referendum: Mr Putin and the threat of a new cold war

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/16/crimea-referendum-putin-threat-cold-war

"Through a series of interventions in civil liberties, Mr Putin is turning a soft autocracy into a highly repressive state."

The referendum that took place in Crimea is both irrelevant and deeply significant. Irrelevant because it has no standing in the law of the country to which it applies, and because it took place while the autonomous region was under military occupation. International bodies are unlikely to recognise its outcome: the UN security council voted by 13-1 to condemn it on Saturday, with only Russia voting against. The referendum is significant, however, because it represents a giant step on the road to Russian annexation, and because it reveals a little more of the nature of that country's president, Vladimir Putin.

Like many a strongman before him, Mr Putin is motivated as much by fear as boldness. He has embarked on the path of dismembering Ukraine in part because he fears for Russia if its neighbour is seen to escape into a bright European future. Ever since the mass protests that surrounded his controversial return to the presidency in 2012, Mr Putin has worked hard to prevent himself being ejected on a wave of pro-democratic sentiment of the kind that ran around the world following Tunisia's revolution in December 2010. Having seen his protege Viktor Yanukovych toppled in Kiev, he has been rolling back the gains of glasnost with renewed vigour.

Just when the Russian people have needed independent media most, the government has been crushing it.

No similarity to the USA at all