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Author Topic: [ANNOUNCE] SolidCoin - new and improved block chain. Secure from pools  (Read 80117 times)
jackjack
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August 31, 2011, 07:51:00 PM
 #721

I agree with dree12.

Can anyone explain how merged mining would NOT drop the price down to 0?


The price won't drop to 0 if the coins are useful
So yes you're right, the proce will drop to 0
Bitcoin are also not "useful". If we added 10M bitcoin to the economy today, price WILL drop to zero.
Do you understand the concept of "50 coins per block"? Why are you talking about adding 10M coins??

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dree12
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August 31, 2011, 08:03:47 PM
 #722

I agree with dree12.

Can anyone explain how merged mining would NOT drop the price down to 0?


The price won't drop to 0 if the coins are useful
So yes you're right, the proce will drop to 0
Bitcoin are also not "useful". If we added 10M bitcoin to the economy today, price WILL drop to zero.
Do you understand the concept of "50 coins per block"? Why are you talking about adding 10M coins??
Merged mining = rapid increase of coins mined until price decreases to near-worthless. This is because to maximize profit, the entire bitcoin network will mine solidcoin until the difficulty reaches 0.3x bitcoin difficulty, when it will balence itself out. This is nowhere near close to happening, and solidcoin will slow down the difficulty increase, which means that you will add in effect more than the size of the current economy.
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August 31, 2011, 08:05:28 PM
 #723

Very interesting how the 6 month BTC chart looks very similar to the 6 day SC chart......

did anybody here noticed that?
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August 31, 2011, 08:12:13 PM
 #724

Very interesting how the 6 month BTC chart looks very similar to the 6 day SC chart......

did anybody here noticed that?
Yep, see the SC/bitcent parity thread in Speculation. Apparently it's "a faster, edgier coin".
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August 31, 2011, 08:24:29 PM
 #725

I asked this question once with no response so maybe it's just a dumb question.  Couldn't the network monitor for and throttle down any single entity contributing more than some X%? 
It has no way of know which entities are contributing.

So the blocks are not "attached" to some address or what not for coin generation and transaction payment?  Perhaps say a particular address that discovers X blocks in a row (let's say 2) the network could then stop sending another block to it for the next two (or 3 found and 2 blocked ... whatever is safe/easy and reasonable), which would force some other entity(ies) to find the interim blocks?  In this way would it not seem that an entity could then at most chain 2 blocks together and then by network mandate get the subsequent 2 blocks rejected by default, that seems like it should preserve the decentralized nature of the system and provide a "light weight" way to at least make the creation of huge pools less desirable?

Just trying to throw out some ideas here, but unfortunately I don't know this part of the system as well as I should.

They are but the address is a random number and a new one is used every time.

If that wasn't true we'd know exactly how many coins different miners made. And then if they spent them at one single place that would "tell" we might have real info about them. And we'd know how much computing power they had.

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August 31, 2011, 11:33:39 PM
 #726

>51% and malicious = death. Bitcoin isn't designed to protect against it, and one of the only known ways is centralization.

Speaking of decentralized cheat-detection, there are some really clever ways of detecting overall cheating, if a cheater can be detected independently by a node connected to it; chip accuracy verification in arrays of chips capable of testing one another is the last incarnation I've seen of a solution to a puzzle that was first published back in.. like the 1980s by a wonderfully clever mathematician who thought he was just solving an old word puzzle. And it, and dozens of special variations of it, are showing up everywhere. I keep seeing it implemented all over the damn place. :-)
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September 01, 2011, 03:37:47 AM
 #727

SIGH!   Roll Eyes  Why the FUD?

Everybody, if you haven't already, please read this simple description of merged mining (MM).  See also the design that it's based on.

I find block that only meets BTC difficulty. I get BTC and SC.
No, you get only BTC.  You base much of your argument on this misapprehension.  Please go read up on MM and tell me if you still think I'm wrong.

All merged mining would do is skyrocket solidcoin difficulty above bitcoin difficulty, except taking a long, long time to do so.
[...]
An increase of supply of that size will also drop sc price below ixcoin or even i0coin price! I do not support merged mining for any cryptocurrency - it simply doubles the chance of disaster.
I don't know where you get your numbers, but I can't see how a code change to accept MM would lead to a generation rate increase any more dramatic than what SC has already experienced.  It would take a while before most of the BTC network adds SC.  As CoinHunter is quick to point out, SC has handled hash rate swings well thus far.  Without merged mining, though, I can promise that SC will experience Namecoin-like hash rate swings based on price/difficulty versus BTC.  StableCoin's improved retargeting algorithm would help, but I predict 95-99% hash rate decreases in a matter of minutes, much greater than the "400%" mentioned so often by CoinHunter.

Can anyone explain how merged mining would NOT drop the price down to 0?
Price has to do with perception, so it is not an easy call.  But if you mean that MM would flood the market with SC, then I don't think so.  Fortunately, Namecoin is set to test the question, if it ever reaches block 24,000, so we'll see who is right.

+1 Merged mining at this point only makes sense with namecoin to me.
I'm not sure what difference you see that makes MM right for one and not the other.  If you mean SC should let Namecoin be the guinea pig, I see some wisdom in conservatism, yes.  But long-term, there will be MM currencies, and the market will choose MM or non-MM, leaving the losing side to convert or wither.

this breaks one of the nicer to see features ie. the difficulty algorithm
No, merged mining does not link difficulties.  It's quite clever.  I'll wait while you read up on it.  Wink

Merged mining between these currencies will likely result in a "battle royale" where one will eventually come out on top plummeting the other to nothingness...
Exactly, but backwards.  In the absence of merged mining, as is happening to Namecoin, many miners will hop from currency to currency based on fluctuating price/difficulty ratios.  This hurts both currencies by increasing opportunities for 51% attacks and messing with block generation rates--albeit less so thanks to SC's innovation in that area.  With merged mining, miner configurations remain stable (as in StableCoin) and all currencies benefit from greater security.

if one or the other does not participate in merged mining that one would cease to exist rapidly because I can't see a case where miners wouldn't participate in merged mining to maximize profits among the several cryptocurrencies.
Quite so.

Can a change to the best-chain criteria protect against 51% to 90+% attacks without a hard fork?
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September 01, 2011, 03:45:05 AM
 #728

Can't you merge mine solidcoin by treating solidcoin as the primary chain and use a secondary chain built with merge mining? eg. solidcoin and namecoin as the two chains. This would require the miner to have solidcoin with the merged mine patch that the namecoiners provide for bitcoin. Only the miner needs the patch, the solidcoin network doesn't need to update.
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September 01, 2011, 04:41:46 AM
 #729

Can't you merge mine solidcoin by treating solidcoin as the primary chain and use a secondary chain built with merge mining? eg. solidcoin and namecoin as the two chains. This would require the miner to have solidcoin with the merged mine patch that the namecoiners provide for bitcoin. Only the miner needs the patch, the solidcoin network doesn't need to update.
Yes, I'm pretty sure you could mine Namecoin and SC this way.  (By the way, it appears VinceD is pushing for Namecoin MM to begin sooner, at block 19,200.)

But if Bitcoin and SolidCoin are to be mined together, something has got to give.

Can a change to the best-chain criteria protect against 51% to 90+% attacks without a hard fork?
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September 01, 2011, 06:21:43 AM
 #730

Can't you merge mine solidcoin by treating solidcoin as the primary chain and use a secondary chain built with merge mining? eg. solidcoin and namecoin as the two chains. This would require the miner to have solidcoin with the merged mine patch that the namecoiners provide for bitcoin. Only the miner needs the patch, the solidcoin network doesn't need to update.
Interesting,does this "patch" work with GUI miner currently or is there someplace where you can read up on trying to get Merged Mining to work ?

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doublec
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September 01, 2011, 06:25:01 AM
 #731

Interesting,does this "patch" work with GUI miner currently or is there someplace where you can read up on trying to get Merged Mining to work ?
The patch is in this tree: https://github.com/vinced/namecoin/tree/mergedmine

That's what you'd need to apply to your local solidcoin - the one your miner issues getworks to.  You'd need to run the version of namecoin including the merge mining patch, and wait for block 19,200 to pass on the namecoin network as that's when it's set to enable. More details on merge mining itself are here: https://github.com/vinced/namecoin/blob/mergedmine/doc/README_merged-mining.md

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September 01, 2011, 06:32:08 AM
 #732

P.S. Folks today is the day that Ruxum said they will start trading Solidcoin, it should be an exciting day whether you are fan or not :-D
Are they still testing? The site seems to be down.

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September 01, 2011, 06:52:05 AM
 #733

I think it can be expected Solidcoin will have some form of rally but who knows by how much.I think it is a better idea to actually buy Solidcoin NOW while it's very cheap considering it did have a high of .03-.04 before the price settled and profit quickly.I definitely have a few solidcoins I have been mining just waiting to see what the price potential could be.


@Double C,thanks for that.Interesting times ahead for miners that's for sure and these 5970's I got should be potentially be payed off in no time,lol.

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September 01, 2011, 06:53:21 AM
 #734

I think it can be expected Solidcoin will have some form of rally but who knows by how much.I think it is a better idea to actually buy Solidcoin NOW while it's very cheap considering it did have a high of .03-.04 before the price settled and profit quickly.I definitely have a few solidcoins I have been mining just waiting to see what the price potential could be.


@Double C,thanks for that.Interesting times ahead for miners that's for sure and these 5970's I got should be potentially be payed off in no time,lol.
Build something to make investors want to invest in Solidcoins. And your 5970's will be paid for.

I'm serious...

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September 01, 2011, 06:57:27 AM
 #735

SC to USD is LIVE! :-D
YAY ! Cheesy

EDIT:Can't sign up need private beta Sad.

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September 01, 2011, 07:37:18 AM
 #736

People, you really have to get over this mining and hoarding mania and think how to make the *coin attractive to merchants.
If you *coin can not be used to buy goods and services, your coin is worth less than a turd - no matter what the difficulty is or what clever protocols you use.
Faster you mine, faster your *coin will die if it has no real world use aka has no real value.

Let me paint you a simple picture. Lets say you mine for sand and no one in he world uses this sand. Is your sand worth something?
NO, it is not!
You can say, but I used a big and really expensive excavator for digging!
So what, it makes your sand no more useful, it adds no value (cost != value). 

Please, put your head together and understand the *coins weaknesses. Not only from nerdy miners point of view but from the consumer/business point of view. Consumers do not give a flying fuck about your hash rates and difficulties divided buy N and what not Smiley

What do merchants want/need (read CC, DC, PayPal, Dwolla etc service/product descriptions and remove all the nonsense + add your own brilliant ideas that your mom and pop like and understand):
1)...


What do consumers want/need (read CC, DC, PayPal, Dwolla etc service/product descriptions and remove all the nonsense + add your own brilliant ideas that your mom and pop like and understand):

1)...
 

While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head.
BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
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September 01, 2011, 07:55:08 AM
 #737

Yes Ruxum server is under heavy load at the moment, which I guess in a way is good news? Anyone needing invites just PM me or ask around, there are plenty to share.

New article posted, we have had some queries from people wondering about SolidCoin dealing with Bitcoins collapse and the future, so we wrote an article detailing some things. There is also a bounty for promoting it, check it out at the site.

http://solidcoin.info/solidcoin-ready-for-bitcoin-collapse.php

Try SolidCoin or talk with other SolidCoin supporters here SolidCoin Forums
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September 01, 2011, 08:10:09 AM
 #738

People, you really have to get over this mining and hoarding mania and think how to make the *coin attractive to merchants.
If you *coin can not be used to buy goods and services, your coin is worth less than a turd - no matter what the difficulty is or what clever protocols you use.
Faster you mine, faster your *coin will die if it has no real world use aka has no real value.

Let me paint you a simple picture. Lets say you mine for sand and no one in he world uses this sand. Is your sand worth something?
NO, it is not!
You can say, but I used a big and really expensive excavator for digging!
So what, it makes your sand no more useful, it adds no value (cost != value). 

Please, put your head together and understand the *coins weaknesses. Not only from nerdy miners point of view but from the consumer/business point of view. Consumers do not give a flying fuck about your hash rates and difficulties divided buy N and what not Smiley

What do merchants want/need (read CC, DC, PayPal, Dwolla etc service/product descriptions and remove all the nonsense + add your own brilliant ideas that your mom and pop like and understand):
1)...


What do consumers want/need (read CC, DC, PayPal, Dwolla etc service/product descriptions and remove all the nonsense + add your own brilliant ideas that your mom and pop like and understand):

1)...
 

Thats coming very soon... Smiley

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Chris Acheson
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September 01, 2011, 08:38:09 AM
 #739

New article posted, we have had some queries from people wondering about SolidCoin dealing with Bitcoins collapse and the future, so we wrote an article detailing some things. There is also a bounty for promoting it, check it out at the site.

http://solidcoin.info/solidcoin-ready-for-bitcoin-collapse.php

Wow.  I didn't think it was possible, but you seem to be getting more sleazy by the day.
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September 01, 2011, 08:52:56 AM
 #740

Yes Ruxum server is under heavy load at the moment, which I guess in a way is good news? Anyone needing invites just PM me or ask around, there are plenty to share.

New article posted, we have had some queries from people wondering about SolidCoin dealing with Bitcoins collapse and the future, so we wrote an article detailing some things. There is also a bounty for promoting it, check it out at the site.

http://solidcoin.info/solidcoin-ready-for-bitcoin-collapse.php

For some time now I've suspected the Govt is behind the creation of Bitcoin. From the elusive 'Satoshi' to the 'Phantom miner' its obvious all is not what it seems at first glance.

Nice job on SC btw...

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