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Author Topic: Intellectual Property - In All Fairness!  (Read 95867 times)
FirstAscent
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September 26, 2011, 05:29:30 PM
 #1101

So when I walk from A to B, and it happens to be across land you claim is your own, and you come out yelling and screaming, waving a shotgun around, what am I supposed to do? It seems that you would be threatening me. Why am I supposed to believe it's your land? By what authority is it your land? Maybe I contend it's just land that belongs to nobody.

So then, on your 1,000 acres, you're going to put up fences and fragment the ecosystem for the sole purpose of indicating that you own it, it's going to be ugly, and it's going to cost you money. Or, you're going to grade it all and "improve" it, to identify it as occupied, but that's costly and destructive. Or, you're not, and I'm going to go build a house on the backside of the land you claim you own, because, well, it looks unoccupied.

Do you have some means of legally indicating that you those 1,000 acres?
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Rassah
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September 26, 2011, 05:30:48 PM
 #1102

When will someone man up and answer my question?

When being a "man" or an "adult" or whateverthefuck is not a prerequisite to giving you any attention?

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September 26, 2011, 05:31:55 PM
 #1103

So when I walk from A to B, and it happens to be across land you claim is your own, and you come out yelling and screaming, waving a shotgun around, what am I supposed to do? It seems that you would be threatening me. Why am I supposed to believe it's your land? By what authority is it your land? Maybe I contend it's just land that belongs to nobody.

So then, on your 1,000 acres, you're going to put up fences and fragment the ecosystem for the sole purpose of indicating that you own it, it's going to be ugly, and it's going to cost you money. Or, you're going to grade it all and "improve" it, to identify it as occupied, but that's costly and destructive. Or, you're not, and I'm going to go build a house on the backside of the land you claim you own, because, well, it looks unoccupied.

Do you have some means of legally indicating that you those 1,000 acres?

Why would you be near that parcel of land and need to cross it in the first place?

FirstAscent
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September 26, 2011, 05:32:15 PM
 #1104

When will someone man up and answer my question?

The name of this forum is 'Politics and Society'. It stands to reason that we need not restrict our discussion to these silly hypotheticals. You or I should start a thread to discuss some specific real issue and how to address it. No doubt, our friends will join in, but nonetheless, the premise of the thread will be more meaningful.  
FirstAscent
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September 26, 2011, 05:34:17 PM
 #1105

So when I walk from A to B, and it happens to be across land you claim is your own, and you come out yelling and screaming, waving a shotgun around, what am I supposed to do? It seems that you would be threatening me. Why am I supposed to believe it's your land? By what authority is it your land? Maybe I contend it's just land that belongs to nobody.

So then, on your 1,000 acres, you're going to put up fences and fragment the ecosystem for the sole purpose of indicating that you own it, it's going to be ugly, and it's going to cost you money. Or, you're going to grade it all and "improve" it, to identify it as occupied, but that's costly and destructive. Or, you're not, and I'm going to go build a house on the backside of the land you claim you own, because, well, it looks unoccupied.

Do you have some means of legally indicating that you those 1,000 acres?

Why would you be near that parcel of land and need to cross it in the first place?

What business is it of yours? Maybe I like hiking. Maybe the roads in the area suck, because some private business decided it wasn't cost effective to build a road. Maybe I'm engaging in scientific study.
BitterTea
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September 26, 2011, 05:36:14 PM
 #1106

So when I walk from A to B, and it happens to be across land you claim is your own, and you come out yelling and screaming, waving a shotgun around, what am I supposed to do? It seems that you would be threatening me. Why am I supposed to believe it's your land? By what authority is it your land? Maybe I contend it's just land that belongs to nobody.

So then, on your 1,000 acres, you're going to put up fences and fragment the ecosystem for the sole purpose of indicating that you own it, it's going to be ugly, and it's going to cost you money. Or, you're going to grade it all and "improve" it, to identify it as occupied, but that's costly and destructive. Or, you're not, and I'm going to go build a house on the backside of the land you claim you own, because, well, it looks unoccupied.

In a hypothetical libertarian society, if you fence 1,000 acres of unowned land, you have to pay to have it defended from those who consider fencing to be not a sufficient requirement for property ownership.

In society with a government, if you fence 1,000 acres of unowned land, you have to pay your property taxes, and the state police force (also paid by those who consider fencing to be not a sufficient requirement for property ownership) will defend it for you.
FirstAscent
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September 26, 2011, 05:38:04 PM
 #1107

So when I walk from A to B, and it happens to be across land you claim is your own, and you come out yelling and screaming, waving a shotgun around, what am I supposed to do? It seems that you would be threatening me. Why am I supposed to believe it's your land? By what authority is it your land? Maybe I contend it's just land that belongs to nobody.

So then, on your 1,000 acres, you're going to put up fences and fragment the ecosystem for the sole purpose of indicating that you own it, it's going to be ugly, and it's going to cost you money. Or, you're going to grade it all and "improve" it, to identify it as occupied, but that's costly and destructive. Or, you're not, and I'm going to go build a house on the backside of the land you claim you own, because, well, it looks unoccupied.

Do you have some means of legally indicating that you those 1,000 acres?

In a hypothetical libertarian society, if you fence 1,000 acres of unowned land, you have to pay to have it defended from those who consider fencing to be not a sufficient requirement for property ownership.

In society with a government, if you fence 1,000 acres of unowned land, you have to pay your property taxes, and the state police force (also paid by those who consider fencing to be not a sufficient requirement for property ownership) will defend it for you.

I'm assuming that perhaps you paid for the land and have some type of deed. Who acknowledges the deed's legitimacy?
Rassah
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September 26, 2011, 05:38:52 PM
 #1108

Why would you be near that parcel of land and need to cross it in the first place?

What business is it of yours? Maybe I like hiking. Maybe the roads in the area suck, because some private business decided it wasn't cost effective to build a road. Maybe I'm engaging in scientific study.

So, are you saying that under current government system you can hike or do scientific studies on private fenced in land without asking owner's permission first?

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September 26, 2011, 05:39:31 PM
 #1109

I'm assuming that perhaps you paid for the land and have some type of deed. Who acknowledges the deed's legitimacy?

A private notary, who relies upon his reputation in order to get business.

Are you implying that a state is necessary in order to validate contracts?
FirstAscent
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September 26, 2011, 05:40:32 PM
 #1110

Why would you be near that parcel of land and need to cross it in the first place?

What business is it of yours? Maybe I like hiking. Maybe the roads in the area suck, because some private business decided it wasn't cost effective to build a road. Maybe I'm engaging in scientific study.

So, are you saying that under current government system you can hike or do scientific studies on private fenced in land without asking owner's permission first?

No, because in our current system, the individual owns the property. But in liberland, it's not clear to me that you actually own the land in question.
FirstAscent
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September 26, 2011, 05:41:54 PM
 #1111

I'm assuming that perhaps you paid for the land and have some type of deed. Who acknowledges the deed's legitimacy?

A private notary, who relies upon his reputation in order to get business.

Are you implying that a state is necessary in order to validate contracts?

Why must I acknowledge the validity of this private notary?
Rassah
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September 26, 2011, 05:47:54 PM
 #1112

Why would you be near that parcel of land and need to cross it in the first place?

What business is it of yours? Maybe I like hiking. Maybe the roads in the area suck, because some private business decided it wasn't cost effective to build a road. Maybe I'm engaging in scientific study.

So, are you saying that under current government system you can hike or do scientific studies on private fenced in land without asking owner's permission first?

No, because in our current system, the individual owns the property. But in liberland, it's not clear to me that you actually own the land in question.

Do you honestly check the deed of ownership on file for every piece of property you come across when you hike? Or do you assume that property without obvious ownership is government/publically owned? Would you simply not assume that all property was privately owned in liberland? And why do you assume that all private property owners would object to strangers hiking on their unused land?

AyeYo
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September 26, 2011, 05:48:39 PM
 #1113

I'm assuming that perhaps you paid for the land and have some type of deed. Who acknowledges the deed's legitimacy?

A private notary, who relies upon his reputation in order to get business.

Are you implying that a state is necessary in order to validate contracts?

Why must I acknowledge the validity of this private notary?


Maybe I don't believe in private notaries. You can't force me to comply, everything had to be voluntary.

Enjoying the dose of reality or getting a laugh out of my posts? Feel free to toss me a penny or two, everyone else seems to be doing it! 1Kn8NqvbCC83zpvBsKMtu4sjso5PjrQEu1
Rassah
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September 26, 2011, 05:49:23 PM
 #1114

I'm assuming that perhaps you paid for the land and have some type of deed. Who acknowledges the deed's legitimacy?

A private notary, who relies upon his reputation in order to get business.

Are you implying that a state is necessary in order to validate contracts?

Why must I acknowledge the validity of this private notary?

Because private courts and private security forces with guns likely will. You guys keep assuming that everything in liberland will be totally individualized, with everyone being in it only for themselves. That's not how business works, and not how liberland likely would, either.

AyeYo
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September 26, 2011, 05:50:40 PM
 #1115

Why would you be near that parcel of land and need to cross it in the first place?

What business is it of yours? Maybe I like hiking. Maybe the roads in the area suck, because some private business decided it wasn't cost effective to build a road. Maybe I'm engaging in scientific study.

So, are you saying that under current government system you can hike or do scientific studies on private fenced in land without asking owner's permission first?

No, because in our current system, the individual owns the property. But in liberland, it's not clear to me that you actually own the land in question.

Do you honestly check the deed of ownership on file for every piece of property you come across when you hike? Or do you assume that property without obvious ownership is government/publically owned? Would you simply not assume that all property was privately owned in liberland? And why do you assume that all private property owners would object to strangers hiking on their unused land?


Maybe I don't believe in private land ownership. You can't force me to acknowledge it, everything had to be voluntary.

Enjoying the dose of reality or getting a laugh out of my posts? Feel free to toss me a penny or two, everyone else seems to be doing it! 1Kn8NqvbCC83zpvBsKMtu4sjso5PjrQEu1
FirstAscent
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September 26, 2011, 05:51:33 PM
 #1116

I'm assuming that perhaps you paid for the land and have some type of deed. Who acknowledges the deed's legitimacy?

A private notary, who relies upon his reputation in order to get business.

Are you implying that a state is necessary in order to validate contracts?

Why must I acknowledge the validity of this private notary?

Because private courts and private security forces with guns likely will.

What gives them the right to harass me, threaten me, kidnap me, or kill me?
Hawker
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September 26, 2011, 05:51:46 PM
 #1117

I'm assuming that perhaps you paid for the land and have some type of deed. Who acknowledges the deed's legitimacy?

A private notary, who relies upon his reputation in order to get business.

Are you implying that a state is necessary in order to validate contracts?

Why must I acknowledge the validity of this private notary?

Because private courts and private security forces with guns likely will.

How?  In your society, he will have nuclear weapons.  No private court or private security force is going to be able to do a damn thing.  They will be just praying he doesn't make a pre-emptive strike and kill them as a precaution.

AyeYo
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September 26, 2011, 05:51:51 PM
 #1118

I'm assuming that perhaps you paid for the land and have some type of deed. Who acknowledges the deed's legitimacy?

A private notary, who relies upon his reputation in order to get business.

Are you implying that a state is necessary in order to validate contracts?

Why must I acknowledge the validity of this private notary?

Because private courts and private security forces with guns likely will. You guys keep assuming that everything in liberland will be totally individualized, with everyone being in it only for themselves. That's not how business works, and not how liberland likely would, either.


Omg! Are you saying might makes right!?!

Enjoying the dose of reality or getting a laugh out of my posts? Feel free to toss me a penny or two, everyone else seems to be doing it! 1Kn8NqvbCC83zpvBsKMtu4sjso5PjrQEu1
Rassah
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September 26, 2011, 05:53:02 PM
 #1119

Maybe I don't believe in private land ownership. You can't force me to acknowledge it, everything had to be voluntary.

This just goes back again to it being your choice to ignore others property, and their choice to defend it, with force if they must. Something that already exists in current system of government. Not sure why you would even consider this...

AyeYo
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September 26, 2011, 05:54:18 PM
 #1120

Maybe I don't believe in private land ownership. You can't force me to acknowledge it, everything had to be voluntary.

This just goes back again to it being your choice to ignore others property, and their choice to defend it, with force if they must. Something that already exists in current system of government. Not sure why you would even consider this...


Because then our interactions are not voluntary. The man with the biggest gun will make the rules.

Enjoying the dose of reality or getting a laugh out of my posts? Feel free to toss me a penny or two, everyone else seems to be doing it! 1Kn8NqvbCC83zpvBsKMtu4sjso5PjrQEu1
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