[ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread

[qtgwith]

Update.

The trades have been rolled back and all XCP orders have been cancelled.

The total XCP missing from the wallet--from people who bought from the dump and made hasty withdrawals--is about 7,000 XCP. I think it is a matter for the community how we want to deal with this. Do we all want to contribute? Should everyone's balances be taxed? Does everyone think this is all my fault and I should pay it out of pocket?

Because this XCP is missing from the wallet, I'm not sure I can turn withdrawals on yet, and until XCP is really verified secure, I can't turn the exchange on. If the exchange isn't on, then I doubt people would really care to keep their XCP in their Poloniex account, and if everyone withdraws, some people at the end are going to be stuck with that missing 7,000 XCP. So I guess we need to decide about this as soon as possible.

The BTC has not been returned yet, but I still have reason to believe that it will be. The attacker has found some other issues with XCP, including one that PhantomPhreak fixed before the attacker reported it and some others that have not been verified yet. The attacker seems intent on the success of XCP and also has opinions about the rollback, and seems to be withholding the BTC pending certain fixes. I have asked for final word on when the BTC will be returned, what he is waiting for, and he should respond by tomorrow. He has been very communicative and has been continuing to search XCP for security flaws--not really the profile of a thief.

Maximum daily withdrawal limits have now been implemented on all coins. For BTC, it is 50. Other security measures will come, and more coins will be moved to cold storage. (The majority of the BTC was in cold storage before any of this happened.)

I expect everything will return to normal in a few days, but I don't have anything definite yet. I'll keep everyone updated as I learn more. Realistically, I could just resume operations now, but I don't think that is wise or fair.

Everyone should donate some XCPs to deal with this. It should be solved easily this way.

[1715355762]

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[1715355762]

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[grandpa_seth]

Thanks Busoni.

I do feel we were all aware that we are in alpha and are not guaranteed against losses due to anything really. However, as an exchange you are responsible

for your customers' funds. You did not have the proper precautions in place for a brand new crypto that you had many technical problems adding to your exchange only

the day before it was added. I absolutely agree that for XCP you should have had more manual control over deposits and withdrawals. In the end the exchange is responsible

for any losses like this and the customers should never be out anything. Having said all that, I personally would not like to see you eat any of the losses as you have been

great and as XCP's first exchange, a big part of our community. I would love if we all could chip in and cover the 7k xcp. If anybody can figure out how to do it fairly

and securely I will donate.

[qtgwith]

Update.

The trades have been rolled back and all XCP orders have been cancelled.

The total XCP missing from the wallet--from people who bought from the dump and made hasty withdrawals--is about 7,000 XCP. I think it is a matter for the community how we want to deal with this. Do we all want to contribute? Should everyone's balances be taxed? Does everyone think this is all my fault and I should pay it out of pocket?

Because this XCP is missing from the wallet, I'm not sure I can turn withdrawals on yet, and until XCP is really verified secure, I can't turn the exchange on. If the exchange isn't on, then I doubt people would really care to keep their XCP in their Poloniex account, and if everyone withdraws, some people at the end are going to be stuck with that missing 7,000 XCP. So I guess we need to decide about this as soon as possible.

The BTC has not been returned yet, but I still have reason to believe that it will be. The attacker has found some other issues with XCP, including one that PhantomPhreak fixed before the attacker reported it and some others that have not been verified yet. The attacker seems intent on the success of XCP and also has opinions about the rollback, and seems to be withholding the BTC pending certain fixes. I have asked for final word on when the BTC will be returned, what he is waiting for, and he should respond by tomorrow. He has been very communicative and has been continuing to search XCP for security flaws--not really the profile of a thief.

Maximum daily withdrawal limits have now been implemented on all coins. For BTC, it is 50. Other security measures will come, and more coins will be moved to cold storage. (The majority of the BTC was in cold storage before any of this happened.)

I expect everything will return to normal in a few days, but I don't have anything definite yet. I'll keep everyone updated as I learn more. Realistically, I could just resume operations now, but I don't think that is wise or fair.

Everyone should donate some XCPs to deal with this. It should be solved easily this way.

Or everyone's XCP address is taxed in proportion to cover the lost. The proportion should be 7000/2650000=1/380

[flayway]

The total XCP missing from the wallet--from people who bought from the dump and made hasty withdrawals--is about 7,000 XCP. I think it is a matter for the community how we want to deal with this. Do we all want to contribute? Should everyone's balances be taxed? Does everyone think this is all my fault and I should pay it out of pocket?

Because this XCP is missing from the wallet, I'm not sure I can turn withdrawals on yet, and until XCP is really verified secure, I can't turn the exchange on. If the exchange isn't on, then I doubt people would really care to keep their XCP in their Poloniex account, and if everyone withdraws, some people at the end are going to be stuck with that missing 7,000 XCP. So I guess we need to decide about this as soon as possible.

Is this 7000 missed XCP from completed hacker dump buy orders or is that cashoutet from earlier balance? Can you see is this withdrawals from earlier balances or from dump? If this people/s who have cashout all 7000 coins are in community and read this topic and dont come out and tell he have this coins looks like he is biggest robber after all  

Im ready to give total 500 XCP for security bounty and to this missed balances, but better if we find this coins and can give all to security bounty. But i dont have counterparty in my computer and i need someone trusted to take over one of my private keys and sending this coins.

[Patel]

I'm all for donating however much I please to Busoni, but taxing all balances is a terrible idea.

[qtgwith]

I'm all for donating however much I please to Busoni, but taxing all balances is a terrible idea.

Yes. Donation is the best way to solve the problem.
OK. I will donate some.

[kdrop22]

Update.

The trades have been rolled back and all XCP orders have been cancelled.

The total XCP missing from the wallet--from people who bought from the dump and made hasty withdrawals--is about 7,000 XCP. I think it is a matter for the community how we want to deal with this. Do we all want to contribute? Should everyone's balances be taxed? Does everyone think this is all my fault and I should pay it out of pocket?

Because this XCP is missing from the wallet, I'm not sure I can turn withdrawals on yet, and until XCP is really verified secure, I can't turn the exchange on. If the exchange isn't on, then I doubt people would really care to keep their XCP in their Poloniex account, and if everyone withdraws, some people at the end are going to be stuck with that missing 7,000 XCP. So I guess we need to decide about this as soon as possible.

The BTC has not been returned yet, but I still have reason to believe that it will be. The attacker has found some other issues with XCP, including one that PhantomPhreak fixed before the attacker reported it and some others that have not been verified yet. The attacker seems intent on the success of XCP and also has opinions about the rollback, and seems to be withholding the BTC pending certain fixes. I have asked for final word on when the BTC will be returned, what he is waiting for, and he should respond by tomorrow. He has been very communicative and has been continuing to search XCP for security flaws--not really the profile of a thief.

Maximum daily withdrawal limits have now been implemented on all coins. For BTC, it is 50. Other security measures will come, and more coins will be moved to cold storage. (The majority of the BTC was in cold storage before any of this happened.)

I expect everything will return to normal in a few days, but I don't have anything definite yet. I'll keep everyone updated as I learn more. Realistically, I could just resume operations now, but I don't think that is wise or fair.

The loss of 7000 XCP can be spread across all accounts with XCP balance in Poloniex. Assuming the balance in Poloniex account is 45,000. This would be 15%.
We can go the donation route, but doubt it will raise more than 1000 XCP.

[Ximp]

I just want my 80 XCP I had.

[grandpa_seth]

Update.

The trades have been rolled back and all XCP orders have been cancelled.

The total XCP missing from the wallet--from people who bought from the dump and made hasty withdrawals--is about 7,000 XCP. I think it is a matter for the community how we want to deal with this. Do we all want to contribute? Should everyone's balances be taxed? Does everyone think this is all my fault and I should pay it out of pocket?

Because this XCP is missing from the wallet, I'm not sure I can turn withdrawals on yet, and until XCP is really verified secure, I can't turn the exchange on. If the exchange isn't on, then I doubt people would really care to keep their XCP in their Poloniex account, and if everyone withdraws, some people at the end are going to be stuck with that missing 7,000 XCP. So I guess we need to decide about this as soon as possible.

The BTC has not been returned yet, but I still have reason to believe that it will be. The attacker has found some other issues with XCP, including one that PhantomPhreak fixed before the attacker reported it and some others that have not been verified yet. The attacker seems intent on the success of XCP and also has opinions about the rollback, and seems to be withholding the BTC pending certain fixes. I have asked for final word on when the BTC will be returned, what he is waiting for, and he should respond by tomorrow. He has been very communicative and has been continuing to search XCP for security flaws--not really the profile of a thief.

Maximum daily withdrawal limits have now been implemented on all coins. For BTC, it is 50. Other security measures will come, and more coins will be moved to cold storage. (The majority of the BTC was in cold storage before any of this happened.)

I expect everything will return to normal in a few days, but I don't have anything definite yet. I'll keep everyone updated as I learn more. Realistically, I could just resume operations now, but I don't think that is wise or fair.

The loss of 7000 XCP can be spread across all accounts with XCP balance in Poloniex. Assuming the balance in Poloniex account is 45,000. This would be 15%.
We can go the donation route, but doubt it will raise more than 1000 XCP.

It was not an exchange bug. The bug affected all of XCP. So why should poloniex users only get penalized while the HODLERS! do not? I am both btw. Though I do admit

taxing is easier/quicker and I do want this behind us already.

[lonsharim]

The first step before donations and/or taxation is make a wider appeal to those people who benefited from the hack by

A. Buying loads @ 0.002
B. Making hasty withdrawals.

Clearly these trades are unsustainable, their source is tainted and invalidated and if these 7000 XCP are not covered then it affects all the current depositors of Poloniex and Busoni to that extent. There were a few who accepted on this thread to making these trades, if you have also withdrawn I appeal to your sense of fair play, please do what is right.

The cost of these trades is 14 BTC (at least) which can easily be returned right away as the hacker left 35 BTC behind.

[Spekulatius]

Update.

The trades have been rolled back and all XCP orders have been cancelled.

The total XCP missing from the wallet--from people who bought from the dump and made hasty withdrawals--is about 7,000 XCP. I think it is a matter for the community how we want to deal with this. Do we all want to contribute? Should everyone's balances be taxed? Does everyone think this is all my fault and I should pay it out of pocket?

Because this XCP is missing from the wallet, I'm not sure I can turn withdrawals on yet, and until XCP is really verified secure, I can't turn the exchange on. If the exchange isn't on, then I doubt people would really care to keep their XCP in their Poloniex account, and if everyone withdraws, some people at the end are going to be stuck with that missing 7,000 XCP. So I guess we need to decide about this as soon as possible.

The BTC has not been returned yet, but I still have reason to believe that it will be. The attacker has found some other issues with XCP, including one that PhantomPhreak fixed before the attacker reported it and some others that have not been verified yet. The attacker seems intent on the success of XCP and also has opinions about the rollback, and seems to be withholding the BTC pending certain fixes. I have asked for final word on when the BTC will be returned, what he is waiting for, and he should respond by tomorrow. He has been very communicative and has been continuing to search XCP for security flaws--not really the profile of a thief.

Maximum daily withdrawal limits have now been implemented on all coins. For BTC, it is 50. Other security measures will come, and more coins will be moved to cold storage. (The majority of the BTC was in cold storage before any of this happened.)

I expect everything will return to normal in a few days, but I don't have anything definite yet. I'll keep everyone updated as I learn more. Realistically, I could just resume operations now, but I don't think that is wise or fair.

Everyone should donate some XCPs to deal with this. It should be solved easily this way.

Or everyone's XCP address is taxed in proportion to cover the lost. The proportion should be 7000/2650000=1/380

This is just another slippery slope proposition right there.

[halfcab123]

I think taxing 7000/totalcoins per each XCP address will keep it as fair as I can see it being. But we need to figure out what we're going to do the next time something like this happens ?

[qtgwith]

Update.

The trades have been rolled back and all XCP orders have been cancelled.

The total XCP missing from the wallet--from people who bought from the dump and made hasty withdrawals--is about 7,000 XCP. I think it is a matter for the community how we want to deal with this. Do we all want to contribute? Should everyone's balances be taxed? Does everyone think this is all my fault and I should pay it out of pocket?

Because this XCP is missing from the wallet, I'm not sure I can turn withdrawals on yet, and until XCP is really verified secure, I can't turn the exchange on. If the exchange isn't on, then I doubt people would really care to keep their XCP in their Poloniex account, and if everyone withdraws, some people at the end are going to be stuck with that missing 7,000 XCP. So I guess we need to decide about this as soon as possible.

The BTC has not been returned yet, but I still have reason to believe that it will be. The attacker has found some other issues with XCP, including one that PhantomPhreak fixed before the attacker reported it and some others that have not been verified yet. The attacker seems intent on the success of XCP and also has opinions about the rollback, and seems to be withholding the BTC pending certain fixes. I have asked for final word on when the BTC will be returned, what he is waiting for, and he should respond by tomorrow. He has been very communicative and has been continuing to search XCP for security flaws--not really the profile of a thief.

Maximum daily withdrawal limits have now been implemented on all coins. For BTC, it is 50. Other security measures will come, and more coins will be moved to cold storage. (The majority of the BTC was in cold storage before any of this happened.)

I expect everything will return to normal in a few days, but I don't have anything definite yet. I'll keep everyone updated as I learn more. Realistically, I could just resume operations now, but I don't think that is wise or fair.

Everyone should donate some XCPs to deal with this. It should be solved easily this way.

Or everyone's XCP address is taxed in proportion to cover the lost. The proportion should be 7000/2650000=1/380

This is just another slippery slope proposition right there.

Yes.Also I think donation is the best way to solve the problem.

[qtgwith]

It was not an exchange bug. The bug affected all of XCP. So why should poloniex users only get penalized while the HODLERS! do not? I am both btw. Though I do admit

taxing is easier/quicker and I do want this behind us already.

Those who traded on poloniex took the risk that something bad would happen to the centralized exchange. And it did. Why did the hacker not try withdrawing funds from a random large address before the central exchange was up? Because he had no way of cashing out a large quantity of BTCs quickly from that attack because it would quickly be noticed. Poloniex gave him that opportunity by having lax risk controls.

Taxing sets a very bad precedent. Let's not forget that when the US first instituted the income tax the rate was 1% and it only applied to the wealthiest Americans.

Let's not go down that road.

Yes.Also I think donation is the best way to solve the problem.

[BTC-Market]

Taxing all XCP holders would be catastrophic for the protocol to say the least, on a psychological level for investors. I'm pretty sure enough people have a vested interest in the project to cover the loss with donations.

[halfcab123]

I'm down for donation.

[porqupine]

Taxing all XCP holders would be catastrophic for the protocol to say the least, on a psychological level for investors. I'm pretty sure enough people have a vested interest in the project to cover the loss with donations.

No one is going to agree to a tax, it's just a few people stirring up nonsense.

[grandpa_seth]

Yes taxing is not the best way to go. Donations are optional as opposed to a tax so of course it is better. But now how do we go about it? I guess wait for devs to

announce what they come up with.

[jimhsu]

The total XCP missing from the wallet--from people who bought from the dump and made hasty withdrawals--is about 7,000 XCP.

I am confused, I thought the hacker double-spent 35,000 XCP yet only 7,000 is missing?


And if he walked away with 80 BTC, but only 7,000 is missing, then he sold 80BTC for 7,000?

I don't understand what happened exactly...

The 35000 spent exploited a protocol bug and thus was reversed (it never existed in the most recent version of the database).

The 7000 constitutes withdrawals by people who sold BTC for XCP and so withdrew the "tainted" XCP. That was not reversed.
The 80 BTC constitutes funds that the hacker withdrew after selling to the above people, and has not been returned yet.

So the parties who were wronged:
- People who bought XCP with BTC, but did not withdraw prior to closing (that would be approximately 35000 - 7000 = 28000 XCP)
- People who deposited XCP who did not mean to sell at those prices (which the hacker did), that would be whatever balance poloniex has right now, minus 28000
- Poloniex, who is losing out on trading and has a loss of confidence

The parties who "benefited":
- People who withdrew XCP that they bought before closing (this is the 7000)
- The hacker, who is up +80BTC

The parties who were unaffected
- People who did not have XCP on poloniex

Ideally, people who withdrew would deposit funds back into the exchange, the BTC would be redeposited, and all trades reversed, which would result in no one gaining or losing anything. However as this is not actually practical, the exchange is currently soliciting donations to try to cover the remainder.

That's the current fund situation right now.

[metraX]

Those who traded on poloniex took the risk that something bad would happen to the centralized exchange. And it did. Why did the hacker not try withdrawing funds from a random large address before the central exchange was up? Because he had no way of cashing out a large quantity of BTCs quickly. Poloniex gave him that opportunity by having lax risk controls.

You all were so happy when that poloniex took XCP, look at what happened the price skyrocketed!! making you all rich!

But now you all blame poloniex for being "centralized" and the users who wanted to buy XCP , as "they should have known"! "it's risky!"

Yeah OK last time I had looked at the Decentralized exchange there were hardly any XCP for sale, and all very overpriced. and hard to use, you have to know command line to use it. Yeah good luck getting new people into the community that way.

You can't have your Cake and eat it too, without poloniex and those people buying XCP for ten times what it was worth, you'd just have worthless XCP...  so don't blame poloneix or it's users.  Only "lax risk control" is dealing with XCP in first place, you should thank , not criticize,

I'll make a prediction here today, you will not see another "centralized exchange" take XCP any time soon after the way people jump to attack Busonli when he first report bug, and now how you say he "took a risk" - yes to your advantage , only to his disadvantage