MoneypakTrader.com
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Activity: 472
Merit: 250
Never spend your money before you have it.
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August 27, 2014, 11:40:41 AM |
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1/ The 12 words password is the first hurdle. I can understand it because it is a web wallet, so the password must be really long. Anyway, I always read than lowercase dictionnary word without special character is crackable. I have no confidence in your password system I didn't see elsewhere, even in cryptoland -> big fail.
Anyway why did you choose a web wallet ?
2/ A windows wallet is a must have. Next and Bitshares X have it. For masses, you don't "own" your money if it is not "installed" on your computer and it is not different for having it on an exchange (I know it is wrong). Consequently, I won't invest much. It seems unsafe to have money here, I can't understand how to back up my money, I am sure I will receive one day a mail saying all is gone due to a hack -> big fail.
Even if I am a big burner, I didn't use the wallet until storj IPO, I don't know why but perhaps for the above reasons.
Good points but you'd need some numbers to really quantify the ability to crack such passwords. A major flaw is relying on their server software to generate the passwords in the first place and can't even generate your own passwords or truly control your own wallet as you mention in #2. We must either use their software which likely still has the major flaws pointed out much earlier in this thread or spend a few years learning to code your own version as they suggest. They didn't care about the third option, turning your back on XCP which people chose instead. Unfortunately we're up against many true believers who blindly reject the idea of pushing the dev's to make counterparty better who have ignored or silenced the voice/s of reason asking for improvements. The idea of allowing native counterparty gambling satoshi dice style was another million dollar idea they ignored afaik. They could relatively easily adapt the protocol similar to chancecoins first whitepaper to allow staking coins to back the house to get an average 1% return of all dice style bets that could be made natively by gamblers if the protocol was updated to allow it. Instead they focus on centralized betting feeds that rely on a single market maker to determine the outcome rather than starting with block difficulty/hash or some similar hardcodable feed. This and other ideas would have saved counterparty but the dev's killed the value instead by lowering the amount of XCP used for asset issuance by 90%, adopting bad advice such as implementing a centralized web wallet, and ignoring good advice such as those above and also the well explained idea of how to embrace the options style nature of btc<-->XCP/asset trades. Ultimately it comes down to ability and willingness to generate useful code. Until we get real coders forking Counterparty in a useful way, we just won't see the value improve. |
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deliciousowl
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August 27, 2014, 11:57:59 AM |
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Good points but you'd need some numbers to really quantify the ability to crack such passwords. A major flaw is relying on their server software to generate the passwords in the first place and can't even generate your own passwords or truly control your own wallet as you mention in #2. We must either use their software which likely still has the major flaws pointed out much earlier in this thread or spend a few years learning to code your own version as they suggest. They didn't care about the third option, turning your back on XCP which people chose instead.
Letting people choose their own deterministic passwords didn't work out very well for NXT. I've seen at least 50 reports of people whose funds immediately vanished because they chose an insecure one. If you are really that concerned about your security, you can add an offline watch-only address and manually sign your transactions (within Counterwallet). Unfortunately we're up against many true believers who blindly reject the idea of pushing the dev's to make counterparty better who have ignored or silenced the voice/s of reason asking for improvements.
Citation? The idea of allowing native counterparty gambling satoshi dice style was another million dollar idea they ignored afaik. They could relatively easily adapt the protocol similar to chancecoins first whitepaper to allow staking coins to back the house to get an average 1% return of all dice style bets that could be made natively by gamblers if the protocol was updated to allow it. I actually suggested something similar. But Counterparty does have trustless betting (rock paper scissors, rock paper scissors lizard spock). Adopting bad advice such as implementing a centralized web wallet,
Counterwallet is distributed across nodes and never handles any personal data. I could not think of a less 'centralized' web interface if I tried. |
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Spratan
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August 27, 2014, 01:07:08 PM |
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Thanks for the confirmation -- I was afraid of that. With the things that have happened in the past with exchanges and such, I've become extremely wary of putting funds on a site where they could potentially get access to the address. Is there anything in place to keep this from happening with Counterparty?
And just to be sure, if I import the private key associated with the shares I have, and have it swept to a new address on Counterparty, those shares will also change ownership over to the new address? Or how does that part work?
It's possible for you to download and run Counterwallet locally. I understand that the Counterparty team will be making it even more easy to automatically download and run Counterwallet locally. You can then use the sweep function locally to move your assets into your deterministic wallet. Yes, we have a full packaged desktop installer planned for linux, macosx, windows tasks to get there: https://github.com/CounterpartyXCP/counterpartyd_build/issues/61https://github.com/CounterpartyXCP/counterpartyd_build/issues/62https://github.com/CounterpartyXCP/counterpartyd_build/issues/63I have found this on the thread. Any update ? By the way, will it change the way to enter the account or wallet ? No more 12 words passwords ? |
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delulo
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August 27, 2014, 01:54:05 PM |
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Any objective reason for the increase in xcp price atm?
How is the Overstock deal going so far?
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deliciousowl
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August 27, 2014, 02:06:16 PM
Last edit: August 27, 2014, 02:17:25 PM by deliciousowl |
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Any objective reason for the increase in xcp price atm?
How is the Overstock deal going so far?
I'm guessing Overstock prefers to stay quiet about its specific deliberations, we'll have to wait and see. Well, crypto exchange rates are not necessarily known for making sense... Maybe it's all the things we don't know about... But here goes: Development is progressing rapidly everywhere! And many XCP projects are making progress. http://storj.io/http://swarmcorp.com/http://getgems.org/http://betxcp.com/(remind me of some other ones in case I'm forgetting something) Also, Counterparty has implemented multi-sig on testnet, and once it reaches the mainnet, it will be a valuable feature for Blockchain-based companies, DAOs, escrows and security conscious individuals. (A multi-signature address is an address that is associated with more than one ECDSA private key. The simplest type is an m-of-n address - it is associated with n private keys, and sending bitcoins from this address requires signatures from at least m keys. A multi-signature transaction is one that sends funds from a multi-signature address.) |
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Matt Y
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August 27, 2014, 03:10:19 PM |
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Counterparty is the most quickly developed project in the entire 2.0 space and probably in the entire altcoin space. You don't have to threaten or otherwise encourage the devs to continue innovating and developing. An insanely talented and motivated development team is just part of the package when you're involved with Counterparty as a project. Tell them the issue, preferably by posting on Github, and I'm sure they will fix it as quickly as possible as they have exactly the same motivations as any XCP investor or Counterparty technology user.
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SyRenity
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August 27, 2014, 03:56:38 PM |
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I have found this on the thread. Any update ? By the way, will it change the way to enter the account or wallet ? No more 12 words passwords ? As I advised the team before, this solution unfortunately does not work reliably on Windows (at least based on our own experience), due to random network issues with the underlying Boot2Docker VM. |
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jrmg
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August 27, 2014, 04:24:54 PM |
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Good to see this thread have come again more active and everyone who have skills help new users doing that. Anyone who want invest little amount of money for new project dont want read few hundreds page technical text to find answer.
Btw is that possible make game where choose card color, red or black and then can continue to double or not so long you want risk your winnings and can find someone to play with you? This also maybe working to Rock-Paper-Scissors, but two simple game allways better than only one.
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parker928
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August 27, 2014, 04:27:21 PM |
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Thanks for all the helpful answers last night and this morning guys.
I think I might know what happened to the missing btc...I did not receive and of the shitcoin I was trying to buy but a minuscule amount of BTC has been removed from my balance, I think maybe it was fees I paid to the network. It prompted me to pay a fews for the miners which I obviously accepted.
I believe I paid the fees, but since my browser, or something, logged me out, the transaction was not able to process, but the fees already want to the miners. This happened twice.
This morning I am trying again and I will click on something in the counterparty wallet every few minutes which means only the most unreasonable piece of software would force log me out this time. I have no idea why whoever designed this protocol made it so you must stay logged in, but then the protocol automatically logs you out if you don't baby it.
Many of you have told me the btc trading is still fucked up, and that I should use the btc to buy counterparty, then send the counterparty to the wallet, and then buy the asset. So it's like 4 extra steps which my grandma would not understand or want to do, and at that point, why wouldn't I just make a purchase with the btc, on a different platform?
New questions - 1. Why would the protocol take fees from me without guaranteeing the transaction would occur, and more importably, 2. why do I need to stay logged in for an hour? Who cares if I am logged in or not? If I typed my 12 word seed in, I obviously authorized the transaction so how could me staying logged in possible be nessecary?
What would someone do if they were at work, and had a 30 minute lunch break and their laptop, and they want to send their buddy 1 btc for the 2 zips of weed he was fronted a few days ago? He logs in, sends the btc, or whatever asset they agreed on, then goes back to work in 20 minutes, now what?
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Matt Y
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August 27, 2014, 04:52:02 PM |
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Thanks for all the helpful answers last night and this morning guys.
I think I might know what happened to the missing btc...I did not receive and of the shitcoin I was trying to buy but a minuscule amount of BTC has been removed from my balance, I think maybe it was fees I paid to the network. It prompted me to pay a fews for the miners which I obviously accepted.
I believe I paid the fees, but since my browser, or something, logged me out, the transaction was not able to process, but the fees already want to the miners. This happened twice.
This morning I am trying again and I will click on something in the counterparty wallet every few minutes which means only the most unreasonable piece of software would force log me out this time. I have no idea why whoever designed this protocol made it so you must stay logged in, but then the protocol automatically logs you out if you don't baby it.
Many of you have told me the btc trading is still fucked up, and that I should use the btc to buy counterparty, then send the counterparty to the wallet, and then buy the asset. So it's like 4 extra steps which my grandma would not understand or want to do, and at that point, why wouldn't I just make a purchase with the btc, on a different platform?
New questions - 1. Why would the protocol take fees from me without guaranteeing the transaction would occur, and more importably, 2. why do I need to stay logged in for an hour? Who cares if I am logged in or not? If I typed my 12 word seed in, I obviously authorized the transaction so how could me staying logged in possible be nessecary?
What would someone do if they were at work, and had a 30 minute lunch break and their laptop, and they want to send their buddy 1 btc for the 2 zips of weed he was fronted a few days ago? He logs in, sends the btc, or whatever asset they agreed on, then goes back to work in 20 minutes, now what?
Hey parker, Some of the issues you're bringing up are being addressed currently. Specifically, a feature that automatically escrows your btc for a more seamless trading experience, without you staying logged in, is under development now. I think there is going to be an alternative to the twelve word passphrase soon also, but I could be misremembering that. 1. To advertise or broadcast your offer to buy or sell with BTC, Counterparty has to pay fees to the network. I think the same is true if you were to make an offer and then wanted to cancel it before the block expiration. You would need to pay to broadcast the cancelation. (Is this correct?) 2. Counterparty devs have made a number of decisions that are security-centric, both seen and unseen. The twelve word passphrase, for example, is incredibly secure. It helps prevent issues such as someone using the same password they use elsewhere or using a weak password in general. While annoying, the devs commitment to security, both for users and the protocol in general, is what generates real interest from parties like Overstock, Swarm, and other big value projects that will come along. All your issues are valid, and everyone is happy for the feedback. Rest assured that development is speeding up if anything and that increased usability and a better user experience is a very high priority. Regarding your hypothetical where Alice wants to send Bob 1 BTC for a couple "zips" that he had already delivered. It seems likely that a simple BTC payment from Counterwallet, Blockchain.info, Hive, or another BTC wallet will do just fine as in this particular case Alice and Bob don't require an escrow as she already has the "zips". |
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Spratan
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August 27, 2014, 05:52:30 PM |
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I have found this on the thread. Any update ? By the way, will it change the way to enter the account or wallet ? No more 12 words passwords ? As I advised the team before, this solution unfortunately does not work reliably on Windows (at least based on our own experience), due to random network issues with the underlying Boot2Docker VM. So no winwallet planned ?  |
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grandpa_seth
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Activity: 316
Merit: 250
Simcoin Puny Humans Communicator
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August 27, 2014, 05:57:18 PM |
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Counterparty can't escrow Bitcoin. Nobody can. So your complaint about having to stay logged in while annoying yes, is not a fail as you imply. CP provided a "stock market" to Bitcoin. We all hope XCP will have the high market cap and liquidity as btc does one day. If it does then only using XCP and CP assets will work easily and problem free as you now expect it to.
You want Average Joe to use CP imo is a bad idea. Look at all the trouble you're having now? You are the AJ because you don't even know what you are doing. You have no basic understanding of the protocol you are using and complaining about. Most of your complaints are valid and have been expressed before. But some of your complaints show you do not understand what it is you're using. You didn't understand that CP lives on top of Bitcoin and therefore can not escrow your btc order match. You just expected it to go through like on Cryptsy. So imagine grandma running into CP or Bitcoin because we made it super super duper easy user friendly. So grandma doesn't have a clue what a private key is or how a blockchain works. She thinks its paypal and therefore can dispute a transaction if she made an error. Oh and she copied pasted her private key and left on a computer in the library.
CP is trying to bring Wall st to decentralized blockchain technology. AJ who doesn't even use E-Trade should not be lured into it. Of course I want it to be as simple and user friendly as humanly possible. But only to the point where people with a basic understanding of this new thing called crypto currencies will want to use.
Apparently the devs are working on a way to "escrow" btc. I have no idea if it is a workaround or some magic solution but that will be great and long awaited.
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deliciousowl
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August 27, 2014, 06:35:31 PM |
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CP is trying to bring Wall st to decentralized blockchain technology. AJ who doesn't even use E-Trade should not be lured into it. Of course I want it to be as simple and user friendly as humanly possible. But only to the point where people with a basic understanding of this new thing called crypto currencies will want to use.
I think eventually there will be plenty of Counterparty uses, where people don't even have to KNOW that they are using Counterparty in order for it to work. It's just a question of time, really. |
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grandpa_seth
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Activity: 316
Merit: 250
Simcoin Puny Humans Communicator
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August 27, 2014, 07:11:02 PM |
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CP is trying to bring Wall st to decentralized blockchain technology. AJ who doesn't even use E-Trade should not be lured into it. Of course I want it to be as simple and user friendly as humanly possible. But only to the point where people with a basic understanding of this new thing called crypto currencies will want to use.
I think eventually there will be plenty of Counterparty uses, where people don't even have to KNOW that they are using Counterparty in order for it to work. It's just a question of time, really. You are really looking into the future then. I mean I know Vennd helped make the storj and swarm ipo virtually non technical and user friendly. But I still do not like trying to market Counterparty technology to someone who has no clue what a blockchain is like my mother in law. |
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delulo
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August 27, 2014, 07:17:27 PM |
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Any objective reason for the increase in xcp price atm?
How is the Overstock deal going so far?
I'm guessing Overstock prefers to stay quiet about its specific deliberations, we'll have to wait and see. Well, crypto exchange rates are not necessarily known for making sense... Maybe it's all the things we don't know about... But here goes: Development is progressing rapidly everywhere! And many XCP projects are making progress. http://storj.io/http://swarmcorp.com/http://getgems.org/http://betxcp.com/(remind me of some other ones in case I'm forgetting something) Also, Counterparty has implemented multi-sig on testnet, and once it reaches the mainnet, it will be a valuable feature for Blockchain-based companies, DAOs, escrows and security conscious individuals. (A multi-signature address is an address that is associated with more than one ECDSA private key. The simplest type is an m-of-n address - it is associated with n private keys, and sending bitcoins from this address requires signatures from at least m keys. A multi-signature transaction is one that sends funds from a multi-signature address.) Thanks for the heads up. Looking forward to each of those projects! |
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ebite
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Activity: 70
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August 28, 2014, 07:28:19 AM |
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I am holding my XCP forever. Vote XCP at btc38.com, one of Chinese biggest exchanges. XCP is ranking top 2 currently, need 35 more votes. http://www.btc38.com/trade/vote_for_trade_en.html |
QBK / QiBuck QPZAQzhwLG25oiP4Z8QWUJ2b9zqfNHnq7L
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deliciousowl
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August 28, 2014, 07:49:43 AM |
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I mean I know Vennd helped make the storj and swarm ipo virtually non technical and user friendly. But I still do not like trying to market Counterparty technology to someone who has no clue what a blockchain is like my mother in law.
For people who understand how the technology of XCP functions, it really markets itself... But it's better to give at least some attention to the general public, or someone else might. |
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profitofthegods
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August 28, 2014, 08:39:02 AM |
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I mean I know Vennd helped make the storj and swarm ipo virtually non technical and user friendly. But I still do not like trying to market Counterparty technology to someone who has no clue what a blockchain is like my mother in law.
For people who understand how the technology of XCP functions, it really markets itself... But it's better to give at least some attention to the general public, or someone else might. The general public doesn't have much reason to use Counterparty right now, but that doesn't mean they won't in the future. The next step will be either investors, because some reasonable sized company (perhaps Overstock, perhaps something else) issues some kind of crypto-equity on the platform, or from gamblers because one of the betting feed operators starts advertising or gaining popularity some other way. I don't see the general public coming to use Counterparty because they like the technology, they'll come for a specific purpose. |
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dexX7
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Activity: 1106
Merit: 1024
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August 28, 2014, 09:34:42 AM |
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A major flaw is relying on their server software to generate the passwords in the first place and can't even generate your own passwords or truly control your own wallet as you mention in #2. Do you mean this in the sense of "the server provides the code" or "the server generates the password for you"? I believe you can enter any combination out of 12 x 1626 words based on this wordlist: http://pastebin.com/9bZ1fvAU. |
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