Goldenmaw
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June 09, 2011, 09:18:03 PM |
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Damn. You put forth a very compelling argument against Bitcoin being embraced, Shroomer.
And yet, there's a weird mirror effect here, isn't there? The value of the Bitcoin is only how much USD you can get for it. This is temporarily exacerbated by the fact that in a purely speculative stage, having little in the way of tradeability. But could Bitcoin survive as a commodity, rather than a currency, like gold, other precious things? Could the US dollar be backed by the Bitcoin?
I would appreciate your thoughts on these questions.
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redblack
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June 09, 2011, 09:27:34 PM |
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does this invite system even exist or are you just wishing for it?
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shroomer
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June 09, 2011, 09:42:50 PM |
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In principle, yes, but central banks own gold, and they own significant part of the supply, enough to control it's purchasing power during 80's and 90's. So if there ever will be return to commodity backed currencies, it would be gold, not Bitcoin, because of universal trust in gold, and also because of better control over it by states. This would also kill Bitcoin's chance to join official economy, because gold would be a lot more trusted and stable.
Bitcoin can in principle survive as a "commodity", specifically as a store of value (because the supply can not be inflated), but in the presence of state backed alternatives and much more trusted gold, in unstable times people will buy gold (as they are doing now), and in stable times they will use state backed paper fiat, as they did before 2008, and even more so before 2001, even though they had a possibility to store their savings in gold instead of in government debt or cash. So even though such use of Bitcoin is possible in principle, I don't think it's realistic to expect it will happen except on small scale, and then it can be ruined by a sellout. That's why I think that backing Bitcoin with black economy is it's best chance for adoption and survival. After all, it was kind of designed for such purpose, wasn't it?
I mean, we can sip a lot of power (but by no means all of it) from governments and central banks by creating almost bullet proof paralel economy, which already exists, but uses less safe (can hyperinflate at any time) paper cash and official banks (leaves trails). It won't create Utopia, but it would create a nice alternative for more freedom spirited people. There was always such possibility to "John Galt yourself from the system", but Bitcoin can make it a lot more convenient and safe.
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Bind
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June 09, 2011, 09:51:01 PM
Last edit: June 09, 2011, 10:05:12 PM by Bind |
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To the naysayers,
Due to all the hype, rampant speculation, media attention, need of anonymity, and yes even fear and paranoia, some of us at Silk Road saw the closing of registrations coming days before it ocurred.
Given that, survival and preparedness-minded folk indeed do create back-up contingency plans for any and all possible outcomes for whatever we are involved in, so of course some have created alternate identities over at Silk Road.
Now that access is limited, we would like to help others get in using those.
That very access now has a value asssociated to it, like it or not, because it is now a closed club.
I am sorry if you disagree with that aspect, but it's just the way it is.
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skitzilla
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June 09, 2011, 09:53:23 PM |
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ive been looking for the site to purchase but cant find ppl help me plz need something cheap
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Goldenmaw
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June 09, 2011, 09:57:14 PM |
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In principle, yes, but central banks own gold, and they own significant part of the supply, enough to control it's purchasing power during 80's and 90's. So if there ever will be return to commodity backed currencies, it would be gold, not Bitcoin, because of universal trust in gold, and also because of better control over it by states. This would also kill Bitcoin's chance to join official economy, because gold would be a lot more trusted and stable.
Bitcoin can in principle survive as a "commodity", specifically as a store of value (because the supply can not be inflated), but in the presence of state backed alternatives and much more trusted gold, in unstable times people will buy gold (as they are doing now), and in stable times they will use state backed paper fiat, as they did before 2008, and even more so before 2001, even though they had a possibility to store their savings in gold instead of in government debt or cash. So even though such use of Bitcoin is possible in principle, I don't think it's realistic to expect it will happen except on small scale, and then it can be ruined by a sellout. That's why I think that backing Bitcoin with black economy is it's best chance for adoption and survival. After all, it was kind of designed for such purpose, wasn't it?
I mean, we can sip a lot of power (but by no means all of it) from governments and central banks by creating almost bullet proof paralel economy, which already exists, but uses less safe (can hyperinflate at any time) paper cash and official banks (leaves trails). It won't create Utopia, but it would create a nice alternative for more freedom spirited people. There was always such possibility to "John Galt yourself from the system", but Bitcoin can make it a lot more convenient and safe.
Interesting. I wonder if it's already too late the black economy? But I've already spoke on that. Thanks for your insight! |
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Bind
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June 09, 2011, 10:02:43 PM |
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Silk Road is NOT an illegal drug market.
Silk Road is an anonymous market.
There are hundreds of legal items up for sale on Silk Road.
Much like anything else, Silk Road can be used for both legal and illegal purposes, like peer to peer file sharing, cryptography, proxies, the INTERNET, the telephone, fax machines, gun shows, guns, knives, perscription drugs, and my pencil (I can write a letter or stab you in the eye with it) ... and to many others to mention.
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MoonShadow
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June 09, 2011, 10:15:18 PM |
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In principle, yes, but central banks own gold, and they own significant part of the supply, enough to control it's purchasing power during 80's and 90's. So if there ever will be return to commodity backed currencies, it would be gold, not Bitcoin, because of universal trust in gold, and also because of better control over it by states. This would also kill Bitcoin's chance to join official economy, because gold would be a lot more trusted and stable.
This is probably true, but likely irrelevent since the central banks cannot return to a gold standard and maintain. Even if they did, I'd consider this entire experiment a success on that note alone. |
"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."
- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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BitterTea
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June 09, 2011, 10:20:59 PM |
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You put forth a very compelling argument against Bitcoin being embraced, Shroomer. Bitcoin is attractive to individuals for the same reason that it is unattractive to banks and governments. People just aren't aware that they're constantly getting fucked by the current system yet. edit... If you think I'm full of shit, I challenge you to listen to this talk by G. Edward Griffin. |
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unnamed0201
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June 09, 2011, 10:27:45 PM |
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hey i was wondering if anyone can point me in the right direction.. how do i create an account through silkroad? i saw this thread ( http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=14153.0) but didnt help much.. is registration closed? if so is there anyway i can register? |
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dr00155
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June 09, 2011, 10:39:34 PM |
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How long will it take before it will reopen?
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redblack
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June 09, 2011, 10:41:05 PM |
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due the attention that this great service is getting from the media, congers, and law enforcement i think you have to rule out ever opening it again up for new users. it just not safe anymore.
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Parallax
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June 09, 2011, 10:46:06 PM |
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Hi there everybody... I had an account on silk road before it closed but I can't access it anymore. Just want to know if its been deleted or not (I didn't have any bitcoins on it yet but still  ) IF I can't get my account back I'd still like to keep up with some members via SILC or IRC. If someone could pm me with help on connecting to the SILCroad chat please do so  .another shameless color post to stand out from spam
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Bind
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June 09, 2011, 10:52:51 PM |
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Hi there everybody... I had an account on silk road before it closed but I can't access it anymore. Just want to know if its been deleted or not (I didn't have any bitcoins on it yet but still ) IF I can't get my account back I'd still like to keep up with some members via SILC or IRC. If someone could pm me with help on connecting to the SILCroad chat please do so .another shameless color post to stand out from spam Unless you did something to get banned, you can access it the same way you always did. |
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Parallax
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June 09, 2011, 11:00:41 PM |
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Well that doesn't seem to be the case  I never did anything bannable.. just browsed a bit and messaged a few sellers. When I try to log in I get a blank page and a captcha that just refreshes the page when I type in my account info... |
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Bind
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June 09, 2011, 11:29:10 PM |
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I was making alternate accounts up until the day they closed registration, and they all work.
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realjimmy
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June 09, 2011, 11:30:57 PM |
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I still have an account to get rid of if anyone's interested.
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WhiteNinja
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June 09, 2011, 11:44:52 PM |
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I first heard of silkroad when the site was down. When I checked again today it was back, spent a couple of hours getting TOR to work with my firewall and now found out there's no obvious way to make an account. Could anyone pm me and point me in the right direction? Iceman, I am in the same boat you are. If you figure it out, please let me know as I need to figure out how/where to register. I'm all set with my Tor connection. thx -WN |
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foolofyork
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June 09, 2011, 11:52:06 PM |
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Well that doesn't seem to be the case I never did anything bannable.. just browsed a bit and messaged a few sellers. When I try to log in I get a blank page and a captcha that just refreshes the page when I type in my account info... Try messing around with cookie settings in your TOR browser. Sounds like cookies being denied. |
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WhiteNinja
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June 09, 2011, 11:52:36 PM |
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OK - from the comments I've read I gather Silk Road is closed for new members... Nice, that is great. I realize that the attention it is getting from the media, etc isn't helpful, but what the hell did they think was going to happen? If you tell a secret to 2 people, chances are 1 of them will spread the word. Nothing is secret on the internet. Also, if it is all really so anonymous, then what is the problem with letting new users sign up?
Maybe the reason new accounts aren't available has to do with something else entirely, I would just like to get in on this. I got Tor all set up and researched how this all works and now I can't even get in. If anyone can help me out, I would appreciate it. I know some people are selling accounts, but it seems like a dick thing to turn around and sell them now - if Silk Road doesn't want new members then someone buying an existing account is still a "new" member and that would defeat the entire reason for blocking new members.
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