Vertcoin - First Scrypt N | First Stealth Address - Privacy without mixer

[xingqiaoyin]

I believed a member here once asked about developing an ASIC miner which will take into account scrypt-N by making an ASIC with lotsof RAM.
I've also seen posts that scrypt-N is useless and an ASIC maker may design their miner to mitigate adaptive-N with ease.

I quote a post from litecointalk from Terry L who is developing a seemingly reliable ASIC scrypt ZeusMiner. In summary he stated that it isn't as easy as it sounds mainly being cost prohibitive for now...

from: Xardas on Today at 11:31:08 AM

from: Xardas on Today at 11:21:00 AM
Terry I asked a question of jasinlee in another thread, but maybe you are still online and can answer. How difficult/expensive would it be to put 2GB of memory on an ASIC chip?

The reason I ask is to make a miner that can handle Scrypt N which needs a lot memory. If an ASIC had a sufficient amount of memory on it or coded to use external memory*, it would prevent the devs of coins like Vertcoin from raising the memory requirement of N too high. Most vid card have 2-4GB of memory and my guess the majority have 2GB, so that would limit how high they can set N without losing vast amounts of miners.




*I had several sha256 miners(which someone bought from me for a ridiculous price) and they would also do scrypt. They weren't very efficient at it because the guys had done some kind of coding that made it work. I can only assume they somehow used external memory(off-chip) that was on the units.

Terry L : i haven't got into the scrypt N coins yet but to put 2GB ram (i would guess you mean sram, not external dram) in one 55nm ASIC is impossible (QFN) at this stage (unless using BGA with a humongous sized chip like the CPU or GPU). it's because ram itself takes huge amount of space. however if you are opting for 16nm and BGA, it might be a good bet but considering the kind of money you have to put into design and development as well as the yield, it's way less economical comparing to gpu.

using fpga and dram is a fine alternative for now.

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[SnakeEater]

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If you don't wish to use p2pool, at least try to join a smaller pool. Ideally I'd love to see everyone using p2pool but that's not realistically going to happen and it's actually not ideal for very small (ie. less than one modern GPU) miners, but even if we could get all the traditional pools down to at most 15% of nethash, that would be a very significant achievement.

Sorry a bit OT with my opinion.

I think the cheapest method to deter ASICS or 51% is to make the protocol human and favour human more than ASICS.  The email password and ID password method should be incorporate into crypto network protocol requesting randomly authentication through the miners client.

The current arm race will promote largest capital to drive more ASICS out from foundries and the original rational to create BTC will fail to achieve the objective of de-centralized control.

There is 2 distinct form of market.  Free market comprise of human or market of robots HFT machines and ASICS.  The latter are non-human friendly.

[lucazane]

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[fredeq]

Can anyone explain vtc and doge price on Vircurex ?!

Edit: http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/2014/03/23/breaking-vircurex-halted-withdrawals/

[DaZuru]

P2PNode not on the scanner:

vertcoin.joinaparty.com:9171

.5 %, in Fort Worth.

[rapsac]

SECURE THE NETWORK

If you don't wish to use p2pool, at least try to join a smaller pool. Ideally I'd love to see everyone using p2pool but that's not realistically going to happen and it's actually not ideal for very small (ie. less than one modern GPU) miners, but even if we could get all the traditional pools down to at most 15% of nethash, that would be a very significant achievement.

Sorry a bit OT with my opinion.

I think the cheapest method to deter ASICS or 51% is to make the protocol human and favour human more than ASICS.  The email password and ID password method should be incorporate into crypto network protocol requesting randomly authentication through the miners client.

The current arm race will promote largest capital to drive more ASICS out from foundries and the original rational to create BTC will fail to achieve the objective of de-centralized control.

There is 2 distinct form of market.  Free market comprise of human or market of robots HFT machines and ASICS.  The latter are non-human friendly.

Asics are incredibly easy to defeat, you only need to have the will to do so. A 'more human?' protocol? What do you mean? I would not like to have any personal info in my account..
In my opinion a succesful coin will need to attend to the needs of all users, large capital holders and ordinary users. There is no (special) place for anti globalists in crypto.

Regarding the anti asic strategy; as i've posted in the vertcoin forum a true anti asic coin should have an automated system to notify users to update their wallets to a newer version, and users should be prepared for several hard forks in the lifetime of the coin. This will deter asic developers more than just the empty promise of being 'asic resistant'.
Up to now vertcoin hasn't proven to be anything more than a newer version of litecoin (which was also meant to be asic resistant or even proof). I am convinced vertcoin has a bright future, but now we can only speculate that a modified algorithm will be incorperated in vertcoin when the need arises. There's no integrated system to make such a change any easier than with ltc or btc..

Come to think of it; the adaptive-n schedule in fact suggests no change will be incorperated into vertcoin for the next decades!

[BorisTheSpider]

Up to now vertcoin hasn't proven to be anything more than a newer version of litecoin (which was also meant to be asic resistant or even proof). I am convinced vertcoin has a bright future, but now we can only speculate that a modified algorithm will be incorperated in vertcoin when the need arises. There's no integrated system to make such a change any easier than with ltc or btc..

Come to think of it; the adaptive-n schedule in fact suggests no change will be incorperated into vertcoin for the next decades!

Very timely you should mention automatic updates - we were discussing that just yesterday. The centralisation aspect is unappealing in a sense, however, ultimately people do choose to go with most hardforks when suggested by the maintainers of a coins client. A push-update system with appropriate user control (ie. notify rather than just make changes), with good control of the signing keys for updates is something we're considering, to be more prepared in the event a hardfork is needed. Like you said, we're not anticipating any ASIC threat based on the chosen schedule, but it never hurts to be prepared.

[rapsac]

Up to now vertcoin hasn't proven to be anything more than a newer version of litecoin (which was also meant to be asic resistant or even proof). I am convinced vertcoin has a bright future, but now we can only speculate that a modified algorithm will be incorperated in vertcoin when the need arises. There's no integrated system to make such a change any easier than with ltc or btc..

Come to think of it; the adaptive-n schedule in fact suggests no change will be incorperated into vertcoin for the next decades!

Very timely you should mention automatic updates - we were discussing that just yesterday. The centralisation aspect is unappealing in a sense, however, ultimately people do choose to go with most hardforks when suggested by the maintainers of a coins client. A push-update system with appropriate user control (ie. notify rather than just make changes), with good control of the signing keys for updates is something we're considering, to be more prepared in the event a hardfork is needed. Like you said, we're not anticipating any ASIC threat based on the chosen schedule, but it never hurts to be prepared.

Being prepared is exactly what is needed. Maybe you could look again at my sugestion to include a version number of the client in outgoing transactions (if thats not in there already) and notify the user when the wallet detects xx% transactions in the blockchain with a different version#? If thats possible at all..

[yogabba]

vertco.in offline? Can´t connect to it and website seems offline.

EDIT: miner connects again, but website still offline.

[mega]

Yay, after about 4 hours of mining with about 1 MH on p2pools I got 0.037 VTC's. Yipikaye motherfuckers.

I'm so sad to see you go! 

[deky_]

Guys, we are still waiting on our weekly update on the blog  

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[CoinBuzz]

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In the name of being diplomatic and not making a fuss, I've held back on saying anything about this for a while, but now we need to talk about it.

While we've achieved fantastic things in terms of p2pool, and Vertcoin has the highest proportion of p2pool mining of any chain I'm aware of, we do have an issue with one or two pools, as Verters great work has revealed at http://www.verters.com/block-analysis

Namely, bitcrush and vertco.in are both rather too big. I have no doubt they are good pools (after all, so many of you wouldn't be there if they weren't) but that's not the point.

Some of you may believe, because it's called a 51% attack, that you need 51% of the network hashrate to do it. Not so - it's just that if you have 51% of nethash you can _ALWAYS_ do it. If you have less, you have a smaller probability of accomplishing it, in proportion to how small your hashrate is (ie. it's incredibly unlikely, but you could in theory do it with 1kh/s).

Let me put some figures on this for you:

With 25% of nethash (which is what bitcrush and vertco.in both have at present), the probability of an attacker successfully orphaning the commonly used 6 confirmations is about 5%. It rises exponentially though, and if these pools grow to 30% of nethash, they would have a 13% chance of accomplishing that attack. Let them get to 35% of nethash and it's a 28% probability.

On the flip side however, it doesn't take a massive reduction in their hashrate to vastly reduce that probability - for example, with 20% of nethash a pool has only a 1.5% probability of accomplishing such an attack, and at 15% of nethash it's down to a much more acceptable 0.2% probability.

The other issue is, two big pools could in theory collude. I am personally satisfied this is no issue here, because I know that Bushido runs vertco.in and is not about to attack his own coin, but it still is an issue, and we shouldn't need to trust anyone here - the whole point of this is to make things trustless and secure by design.

I'm very proud of the way we've managed to get the p2pool adoption in VTC so strong, but let's not rest on our laurels - there is still much work to be done. Please consider moving if you're on bitcrush or vertco.in, preferably to p2pool.

Remember fees are lower on p2pool generally, payouts are higher and you're helping the network - http://p2pool.vertcoin.org/ will show you all the p2pool nodes that can be detected and selecting one close to you geographically is best (also setting one or two others as failover in your miner config) - the advantages of p2pool are manyfold, including that the pool operator cannot lose or steal your coins either through malice, incompetence or getting hacked, because they never hold the coins (they are paid directly to the miner), also, if the p2pool node you are on fails, you still get paid your shares because they are distributed on the sharechain, and not stored on any one node to be lost due to a failure.

If you don't wish to use p2pool, at least try to join a smaller pool. Ideally I'd love to see everyone using p2pool but that's not realistically going to happen and it's actually not ideal for very small (ie. less than one modern GPU) miners, but even if we could get all the traditional pools down to at most 15% of nethash, that would be a very significant achievement.

Could you please tell dev-team my suggestion?

I Suggest that change the wallet-qt to just support P2Pool software for RPC and Mining server. I think we all agree on that or at least we can make a poll about it. It's a huge great move

[pjr77]

Could you please tell dev-team my suggestion?

I Suggest that change the wallet-qt to just support P2Pool software for RPC and Mining server. I think we all agree on that or at least we can make a poll about it. It's a huge great move

Even better we should integrate guiminer on the wallet defaulting to the lowest latency VTC p2pool
We have sufficient settings for most cards so users only had to select the card and press Start mining

[layyen]

it will be nice, as memorycoin have integrated miner, very good idea everybody can start mining even he/she is not so good in cryptorurrencies, he can start mining and  not hurry with reading and learning

[dspair]

vertco.in offline? Can´t connect to it and website seems offline.

EDIT: miner connects again, but website still offline.

Down again.

Edit: UP