HBN Investment Journal - 2% returns every ten days - 90,000+ HBN Porfolio

[tokyoghetto]

1) This is all experimental. What we know from Peercoin is that the stake % is quite low and doesn't really attract new investors or give current investors much protection against a drop in value. CENT set it way too high due to a coding error and the coin hyperinflated into nothing. it seems like anything between 20% and 100% is generous, given the high risks that alt-coin investing carry.

2)I believe that a decentralized bank is viable. During a bank run, a traditional bank can refuse to allow withdrawals. The same goes for crypto-exchanges. Look at Mt.Gox for a perfect example. This is why I encourage off-exchange trading using escrow, never keep significant amount of coins on an exchange. As long as the network runs on trusted nodes and there is no chance of attack, a decentralized bank model can take over our current centralized model.

3) Again this is all experimental. What we need is more clones to test out different stake levels and see how the markets react.

4) We live in a capital model which is a zero sum game. Everything from inflation to taxes is a form of slavery. Its the price we pay for the society we live in. Most of us are from 1st world countries and enjoy the perks of this. You need a form of bondage to extract human resources to ensure this type of society. Whether that be high taxes, low minimum wages or inflation of a countries currency. It pays to be an early adopter of anything, I have no ill will against people who got rich off MSFT, APPL or GOOG.

I took this picture of Scrooge McDuck swimming in my pool of Hobonickels.



I don't think I have answered your 4th question sufficiently and I need to head to my low paying boring day job. Perhaps someone can provide some input on this, and hopefully I can think of a better response once i get back from work tonight.

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[r0ach]

After looking at some stake code, I wonder if the Hobonickels dev, or original poster, realize that everything in this thread, including the coin itself, is the exact dictionary definition of Ponzi scam.  Early entrants are rewarded with huge, unsustainable minting rewards, just like in a regular Ponzi scam, then as more people join in the system, the unsustainable stake rewards slow to a crawl due to stake amount being linked to a difficulty variable, eventually going exponentially lower.  There's really no rationalizing around it.  It is for all intents an purposes, identical to a Ponzi scam.


Ponzi scheme - a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from existing capital or new capital paid by new investors, rather than from profit earned by the individual or organization running the operation. Operators of Ponzi schemes usually entice new investors by offering higher returns than other investments, in the form of short-term returns that are either abnormally high or unusually consistent. The perpetuation of the high returns requires an ever-increasing flow of money from new investors to sustain the scheme


The only way for a proof of stake coin to not be a Ponzi scam, is if interest rate was static, and not linked to any difficulty variable.  I suggest the Hobonickel dev work on implementing a method to create static interest rates before governments come in for crypto regulation, otherwise they will either outright ban the Hobonickel in most countries, or possibly try to throw you in some kind of gulag.

[cryptmebro]

After looking at some stake code, I wonder if the Hobonickels dev, or original poster, realize that everything in this thread, including the coin itself, is the exact dictionary definition of Ponzi scam.  Early entrants are rewarded with huge, unsustainable minting rewards, just like in a regular Ponzi scam, then as more people join in the system, the unsustainable stake rewards slow to a crawl due to stake amount being linked to a difficulty variable, eventually going exponentially lower.  There's really no rationalizing around it.  It is for all intents an purposes, identical to a Ponzi scam.


Ponzi scheme - a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from existing capital or new capital paid by new investors, rather than from profit earned by the individual or organization running the operation. Operators of Ponzi schemes usually entice new investors by offering higher returns than other investments, in the form of short-term returns that are either abnormally high or unusually consistent. The perpetuation of the high returns requires an ever-increasing flow of money from new investors to sustain the scheme


The only way for a proof of stake coin to not be a Ponzi scam, is if interest rate was static, and not linked to any difficulty variable.  I suggest the Hobonickel dev work on implementing a method to create static interest rates before governments come in for crypto regulation, otherwise they will either outright ban the Hobonickel in most countries, or possibly try to throw you in some kind of gulag.

go home r0ach, you're drunk.

[unick]

After looking at some stake code, I wonder if the Hobonickels dev, or original poster, realize that everything in this thread, including the coin itself, is the exact dictionary definition of Ponzi scam.  Early entrants are rewarded with huge, unsustainable minting rewards, just like in a regular Ponzi scam, then as more people join in the system, the unsustainable stake rewards slow to a crawl due to stake amount being linked to a difficulty variable, eventually going exponentially lower.  There's really no rationalizing around it.  It is for all intents an purposes, identical to a Ponzi scam.


Ponzi scheme - a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from existing capital or new capital paid by new investors, rather than from profit earned by the individual or organization running the operation. Operators of Ponzi schemes usually entice new investors by offering higher returns than other investments, in the form of short-term returns that are either abnormally high or unusually consistent. The perpetuation of the high returns requires an ever-increasing flow of money from new investors to sustain the scheme


The only way for a proof of stake coin to not be a Ponzi scam, is if interest rate was static, and not linked to any difficulty variable.  I suggest the Hobonickel dev work on implementing a method to create static interest rates before governments come in for crypto regulation, otherwise they will either outright ban the Hobonickel in most countries, or possibly try to throw you in some kind of gulag.

Why are you putting so much energy into finding problems where there is none ?

What's wrong with variable interest? It's purpose is to have a sustainable inflation rate. on the long term. doubling the supply every year is not very wise at some point in the growth of this coin.

And what's wrong with the fact that the people making it possible for this coin to grow right now be rewarded with a higher yield while difficulty is low?

You not liking the name fine, I don't judge your opinion. But bringing this up has a Ponzi scheme... I mean come on! don't you have better things to do?

"a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from existing capital or new capital paid by new investors"

new capital is NOT paid by investors or from existing capital, but MADE by the network based on some rules... like any other crypto right now.

Plus, if Investors would pay anything for this currency it would be the actual value determined by the market.

I think I'll stop here... and maybe you should too since your comments are getting less and less constructive.

[r0ach]

And what's wrong with the fact that the people making it possible for this coin to grow right now be rewarded with a higher yield while difficulty is low?

Because it follows the exact dictionary definition of Ponzi scam?  If Tokyo goes and hordes a bunch, he prints up 1 BTC stake blocks, then other people read the thread, follow his exact same method, all try to stake together, and receive 1/100th the reward? lol.  The Hobonickel is advertised as a high yield interest coin.  It's the main selling point of the thing.  It doesn't list in the fine print "oh yea, if everyone tries to do this, you will make absolutely nothing, only a few early adopters can".

This is how Ponzi scams operate.  Maybe the developer didn't intend it to be a ponzi scam, but that's the way it functions in the real world.  It's actually one of the most ingenious Ponzi scams ever invented because there's always incentive for someone to buy up coins when the value goes low to "reboot" the system.  It's almost like an immortal Ponzi scam virus.

Coins like this will be the fastest way ever to get crypto banned by every government on the planet.  The good news is, this will drastically increase the price of Darkcoins, which I happen to own a few of.  Even the Fedora tumbler might see gains.

[forzendiablo]

so how many coins u have now tokyo ?

[cryptmebro]

And what's wrong with the fact that the people making it possible for this coin to grow right now be rewarded with a higher yield while difficulty is low?

Because it follows the exact dictionary definition of Ponzi scam?  If Tokyo goes and hordes a bunch, he prints up 1 BTC stake blocks, then other people read the thread, follow his exact same method, all try to stake together, and receive 1/100th the reward? lol.  The Hobonickel is advertised as a high yield interest coin.  It's the main selling point of the thing.  It doesn't list in the fine print "oh yea, if everyone tries to do this, you will make absolutely nothing, only a few early adopters can".

This is how Ponzi scams operate.  Maybe the developer didn't intend it to be a ponzi scam, but that's the way it functions in the real world.  It's actually one of the most ingenious Ponzi scams ever invented because there's always incentive for someone to buy up coins when the value goes low to "reboot" the system.  It's almost like an immortal Ponzi scam virus.

Coins like this will be the fastest way ever to get crypto banned by every government on the planet.  The good news is, this will drastically increase the price of Darkcoins, which I happen to own a few of.  Even the Fedora tumbler might see gains.

Sounds like 90% of the coins out there.  Most have high block rewards at the beginning which taper at the end (not to mention low difficulity at the beginning as well which make it easy to mine a lot of coins quickly.)  Think QRK, LTC, BTC, etc...2 coins I know of that started with low rewards and transition to a higher reward are DGC and SRC.  I'm sure there's others.  


TLDR your fucking point is null.

[cryptmebro]

After looking at some stake code, I wonder if the Hobonickels dev, or original poster, realize that everything in this thread, including the coin itself, is the exact dictionary definition of Ponzi scam.  Early entrants are rewarded with huge, unsustainable minting rewards, just like in a regular Ponzi scam, then as more people join in the system, the unsustainable stake rewards slow to a crawl due to stake amount being linked to a difficulty variable, eventually going exponentially lower.  There's really no rationalizing around it.  It is for all intents an purposes, identical to a Ponzi scam.


Ponzi scheme - a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from existing capital or new capital paid by new investors, rather than from profit earned by the individual or organization running the operation. Operators of Ponzi schemes usually entice new investors by offering higher returns than other investments, in the form of short-term returns that are either abnormally high or unusually consistent. The perpetuation of the high returns requires an ever-increasing flow of money from new investors to sustain the scheme


The only way for a proof of stake coin to not be a Ponzi scam, is if interest rate was static, and not linked to any difficulty variable.  I suggest the Hobonickel dev work on implementing a method to create static interest rates before governments come in for crypto regulation, otherwise they will either outright ban the Hobonickel in most countries, or possibly try to throw you in some kind of gulag.

Why are you putting so much energy into finding problems where there is none ?

What's wrong with variable interest? It's purpose is to have a sustainable inflation rate. on the long term. doubling the supply every year is not very wise at some point in the growth of this coin.

And what's wrong with the fact that the people making it possible for this coin to grow right now be rewarded with a higher yield while difficulty is low?

You not liking the name fine, I don't judge your opinion. But bringing this up has a Ponzi scheme... I mean come on! don't you have better things to do?

"a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from existing capital or new capital paid by new investors"

new capital is NOT paid by investors or from existing capital, but MADE by the network based on some rules... like any other crypto right now.

Plus, if Investors would pay anything for this currency it would be the actual value determined by the market.

I think I'll stop here... and maybe you should too since your comments are getting less and less constructive.

He's just trolling.  There is no reason to listen to him anymore.  Best we click that ignore button.

[unick]

After looking at some stake code, I wonder if the Hobonickels dev, or original poster, realize that everything in this thread, including the coin itself, is the exact dictionary definition of Ponzi scam.  Early entrants are rewarded with huge, unsustainable minting rewards, just like in a regular Ponzi scam, then as more people join in the system, the unsustainable stake rewards slow to a crawl due to stake amount being linked to a difficulty variable, eventually going exponentially lower.  There's really no rationalizing around it.  It is for all intents an purposes, identical to a Ponzi scam.


Ponzi scheme - a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from existing capital or new capital paid by new investors, rather than from profit earned by the individual or organization running the operation. Operators of Ponzi schemes usually entice new investors by offering higher returns than other investments, in the form of short-term returns that are either abnormally high or unusually consistent. The perpetuation of the high returns requires an ever-increasing flow of money from new investors to sustain the scheme


The only way for a proof of stake coin to not be a Ponzi scam, is if interest rate was static, and not linked to any difficulty variable.  I suggest the Hobonickel dev work on implementing a method to create static interest rates before governments come in for crypto regulation, otherwise they will either outright ban the Hobonickel in most countries, or possibly try to throw you in some kind of gulag.

Why are you putting so much energy into finding problems where there is none ?

What's wrong with variable interest? It's purpose is to have a sustainable inflation rate. on the long term. doubling the supply every year is not very wise at some point in the growth of this coin.

And what's wrong with the fact that the people making it possible for this coin to grow right now be rewarded with a higher yield while difficulty is low?

You not liking the name fine, I don't judge your opinion. But bringing this up has a Ponzi scheme... I mean come on! don't you have better things to do?

"a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from existing capital or new capital paid by new investors"

new capital is NOT paid by investors or from existing capital, but MADE by the network based on some rules... like any other crypto right now.

Plus, if Investors would pay anything for this currency it would be the actual value determined by the market.

I think I'll stop here... and maybe you should too since your comments are getting less and less constructive.

He's just trolling.  There is no reason to listen to him anymore.  Best we click that ignore button.

Yeah I guess you're right.

If I get his reasoning correct. Basically anyone who starts anything and his first to innovate or adopt it... is a crook
anyone who makes money... is a crook.
anyone who invest a lot of time and energy to achieve a certain goal... is a crook

Since being successful is only for crooks!

I think I got that about right!

What about if I didn't buy the HBN but made a lot of them with PoW... is that still a Ponzi scheme? oh yeah my bad, it surely is!

I guess R0ach is a crook too... why would he be interested in crypto or this thread for that matter?

[r0ach]

Sounds like 90% of the coins out there.

No, it does not sound like 90% of the coins out there, since 90% of the coins out there are not proof of stake, and the source of all proof of stake coins, Peercoin, gives 1% interest.  These PoS forks have taken stake mechanics, then amplified it by 100 to give a Ponzi element to the coin.

Any non-biased party would refer to the Hobonickel as an exotic financial instrument, composed of 1/3rd currency, 1/3rd virtual bank account, and 1/3rd Ponzi scam.

The Ponzi element encourages adoption for outrageous rewards, then once the currency actually is adopted, the rewards go to nothing.  At this point, most people will find the hassle of owning a non-liquid currency with large amounts of upkeep dealing with a PoS system for low rewards not worth it, and since their investment has now appreciated, they will be encouraged to dump.

In other words, the coin mechanics promote a cyclical pump and dump, with a built in dynamic of rebooting the pump again, since new investors get high rewards when the coin is in graveyard status.

The way the coin designed is either completely idiotic, or completely genius depending on what your goal is.

[Wipeout2097]

r0ach is a concern troll, also a dev of other coin. Nothing new here

That does not mean one should blindly follow this journal. I don't want to buy an over-valued coin based on the hype, that others will dump on me for the quick buck. But this thread is by far one of the best I can find here at btctalk, regarding learning and investment tips.

[tokyoghetto]

So this discussion about HBN being a Ponzi, which it isn't because the network generates the rewards for PoS mining and doesn't take it from other investors, is really derailing this thread.

Please feel free to start another thread to discuss Ponzi schemes. This thread isn't self-moderated but I will lock it up and no longer update it if this continues.

Thanks.

[dailyarsenal]

So this discussion about HBN being a Ponzi, which it isn't because the network generates the rewards for PoS mining and doesn't take it from other investors, is really derailing this thread.

Please feel free to start another thread to discuss Ponzi schemes. This thread isn't self-moderated but I will lock it up and no longer update it if this continues.

Thanks.

I agree with Tokyoghetto. I follow this thread because i think you have a good concept on earning HOBO. Anyone that trolls or goes off topic should just leave and create their own topic and leave this one alone for those of us who use tokyo's advice to earn more coin.

and for the record. HOBO is no Ponzi.

[r0ach]

So this discussion about HBN being a Ponzi, which it isn't because the network generates the rewards for PoS mining and doesn't take it from other investors

First of all, staking actually does take reward from other investors.  Putting in a large stake increases both stake, and PoW difficulty.  Miners are investing energy and time for PoW rewards, which are then vaporized by the large PoS blocks.

But, you might be right, let's assume I used the wrong terminology.  I could have used a word like pyramid scheme

Pyramid scheme - an unsustainable business model that involves promising participants payment or services, primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme

The interest rates are insane at low adoption, but decrease the more people that join, so just like the description says, the business model advertised of "2% a week super stake" is unsustainable.  Then obviously it's not a currency unless you can sell all of it without imploding the entire system, but if only a few people own it, it has no liquidity, so you have to enroll more people to make any use of the unsustainable stake reward or full liquidation of product.

I'm well aware people have made the same claims about Bitcoin, but I don't really see it that way since the thing was designed to be self sustained with miners getting tax fees to continue the system as described on the box.  The Hobonickel on the other hand, doesn't actually function the way it's advertised.

Bitcoin was based on simple game theory, and proof of stake is a much more imperfect, and arbitrary system.  Maybe it's not an actual "scheme" and my complaint is that Hobonickles, and all proof of stake systems in general, are not documented properly in how they are advertised or function.  It's a pretty common Sunny King criticism, and those criticisms will obviously be amplified when you amplify stake power by 100.

[Wipeout2097]

bla bla

IDIOT, NOBODY CARES. GET LOST!

Edit: Oops, Saturday night, a few drinks, hehehe  

[r0ach]

bla bla

IDIOT, NOBODY CARES. GET LOST!

Such is the hazard of reading a crypto anarchist message board.

[forzendiablo]

r0ach stop trolling dude.

[r0ach]

r0ach stop trolling dude.

That wasn't trolling, this is trolling:  https://i.imgur.com/0Wq4dJw.png

[Mr. Net]

r0ach basically tells you to sell your hobos and buy darkcoin... Its just your average bitcointalk user...
My buyorders are up, you are all free to sell on me! 

[BitCoinPokerBro]

Amusing thread