[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[coins101]

my only problem with that rocket ship is that it should be pointed east at a 45 degree angle for the gravity burn to get into orbit or it will loose all its delta V and just fall back to earth.

Maybe i play to much Kerbal Space Program though

nope, this ship is designed to fly far beyond the moon, it can start from 720 different angles, capt'n evan doesn't care about delta V, he use his own delta D to escape gravity  

You are the man! I look forward to your future work! BTW, would you be good at logo design? We may need one to represent Darksend.... It would have to be scalable, to fit in small places, as well as large.

darksend needs his own logo? the one who made the darkcoin logo should create that easily.
i don't like the idea to seperate darkcoin from darksend with a new logo. Or is your idea to make a sublogo for different drk tech's? Then we need
darksend, instantX, masternodes  logos.

This is the idea, more to come later...

I think everybody knows my vote for MN and/or DarkSend Logo.

Why not use the rounds of master nodes, similar to that in the white paper diagram?

[GhostPlayer]

Hi guys,

i contacted the Kraken exchange to see what their plans were regarding a potential adding of Darkcoin, however this was their response :

--> anybody got any suggestions to persuade them? :p I believe this would be a major win for us if they would accept DRKUSD and DRUKEUR trading pairs

Yup, did that months ago and basically got the same answer. Now that DRK is out and can be reviewed, my hope is that Kraken adopts it too!

[GhostPlayer]

 Seriously, Mintpal?! I and Soooooo glad I got my coins out of there right before they updated. Actually its was sort of the inicial phase. I'm am one lucky dog.

 Seriously? This is the new Mintpal ?? What a load of crap! The visually, the older was 10000x better.

 So apart the obvious Bitfinex, what alternatives are there (please dont say Cryptsy or Poloniex)

[Elzo]

 Seriously, Mintpal?! I and Soooooo glad I got my coins out of there right before they updated. Actually its was sort of the inicial phase. I'm am one lucky dog.

 Seriously? This is the new Mintpal ?? What a load of crap! The visually, the older was 10000x better.

 So apart the obvious Bitfinex, what alternatives are there (please dont say Cryptsy or Poloniex)

I'm thinking Bittrex or Bitfinex

Still have my drk on Mintpal though. Looking to see if the volume will rise, volume is all I care about

[Ignition75]

Can we just switch the exchange from mintpal to bitfinex? Lets create there more volume and get some pro exchanges which at least do the annuncement before closing exchange for some days....

I am, picking up a couple of extra nodes from Finex this arvo...

Let's all move over...

I'm picking up another 1500 coins in the next week to get me another 2 masternodes. Will get them from finex as we'll. I don't trust mintpal anymore.

I picked up one nodes worth today, got orders for another one waiting to be filled.  I'm learning to buy smarter, on the dips, I used to just shoot my load and buy everything in an instant... I'm drinking in my DRK slowly now, enjoying the experience...

I'm gonna go Singapore tonight... I feel like some Singapore Nodles... 

[kiindje]

Hi guys,

i contacted the Kraken exchange to see what their plans were regarding a potential adding of Darkcoin, however this was their response :

Hi,

Thanks for bringing Darkcoin to our attention. We don't have any plans to add any other digital currencies at the present time. We're open to adding more currencies in the future, but every currency we add first has to go through a lengthy process of evaluation. For example, in the case of Namecoin, we found a serious bug in the protocol during our evaluation process.

http://www.coindesk.com/namecoin-flaw-patch-needed/

The bug was of course fixed before we allowed trading in Namecoin on our exchange. This evaluation process takes valuable time away from other important development projects, and at the present time we can't spare the resources needed to add a new currency. However, this may change in the future. Thanks again for getting in touch.

Best,

William
Kraken Support

--> anybody got any suggestions to persuade them? :p I believe this would be a major win for us if they would accept DRKUSD and DRUKEUR trading pairs

good you are reaching out
but don't we have enough exchanges ?
(just asking)

I don't think we can ever have enough exchanges. And personally I think that Kraken is one of the major exchanges to which a lot of fiat money flows in Western Europe.
We have a couple other alternatives like https://anycoindirect.eu/kopen/bitcoins but they all charge a premium fee to be able to buy darkcoin and even bitcoin directly.

I'll ask them what they need, just for inquiry purposes

[georgem]

I have before, but as you wish.

Just in case a few of you don't know yet, they're NSFW.
Stock: https://ottrbutt.com/miner/x11localrigstock-10062014.png
Modified: https://ottrbutt.com/miner/x11localrigwolf-10062014.png

lol, now I know why you call yourself "wolf"...  
And I thought I was the kinky guy around here... 

[TheUsualStuff]

cross post, b/c obviously off topic for that thread.

Miners who can use a pool which doesn't take some of their block reward, will have an economic advantage, thus masternodes will become unfunded and be centralized (offered for free) by whomever can gain from stealing the anonymity (or what ever value they can extract from centralizing masternodes).

With the recent spork that was done with >90% of the network in acceptance, there are no more pools in darkcoin who can offer a block reward without paying the mns. therefore, miners who choose to mine at these pools will be at a distinct economic disadvantage to themselves. The network now rejects these blocks.

If the mn's are economically capable of offering mining for no fee, or a fee less than a non-mn pool (because of the 20% they're already allocated), then that would give them an economic edge over non mn pools. this does assume that the operational costs of the mn and the operational costs of running the pool combined are less than what it receives.

evan's latest post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg9103691#msg9103691

I wonder what the technical limitations are on lowering the amount required from 1000 units, to say, one or two units of the currency?

Add: I'd like to make the point that playing with this 20% payment will likely have immediate and lasting effects on the hashrate of the network, because of the chosen emission style where the hashrate defines the block reward. Please note that with this enforcement, the hashrate dropped to levels where the nodes and miners are receiving more currency than they did before because the block reward has moved from the 5drk minimum and now sits at ~7/8drk. I observe that a 20% cut in miner pay seems to have resulted in a 40%50% increase in emission. With no real change in price, this serves to reward miners a net of 20% increase in pay/value reward compared to pre-spork.

As many miners may sell at market, this would require a 20% increase in purchasing power to keep this price. This can be countered with a price increase of 20% if someone wants to have the potential ability to collect 'anonymous' information through the masternodes in the future (add: or just really likes DRK ofc ). The price increase should logically be met with a 20% increase in hashrate from where it's at now (which will yield the 5 DRK/block emission), where it will sit until either buying or selling power takes precedence over the other; however, the buying pressure would still need to be increased 20% value-wise in order to maintain no change. The only real benefit to raising the price from a whales perspective in this AFAICS is to keep scarcity up, so that the 50% gain in emission doesn't dilute their current holdings. Personally, I'm expectinghoping for a 20% rise in the nearish future in order to tackle this very situation.

Alternatively, the price can decrease 20%. While this seems more likely, it could easily cascade into a decreasing hashrate which will yield an even higher emission (what difficulty does it increase from 7/8 per block to whatever's higher than that?) and then a possible 'race to the bottom'. Considering that there is the financial incentive of either the currency itself, or even the incentive of potentially having the ability to collect anonymous data, I'd think that the increased cost route might be justified. Not my money to spend though, nor do I know who's making the spending decisions so it's pretty up in the air.

Alternatively again, Wolf0 has just published a nice increase in hashing power. He says it's '34.34%' overall. The increased hashrate would increase the network difficulty to where it's again sitting at 5 drk/block. economic implications of this are left to anyone that would like to consider the value of purchasing his refinement of the mining algorithm. I'm sure it's less than paying all that extra money on the market

[coins101]

cross post, b/c obviously off topic for that thread.

That is a thread waiting for an attack on XMR to come to the surface over the next 5-10 days, or not......DRK = off topic?

[thelonecrouton]

cross post, b/c obviously off topic for that thread.

Miners who can use a pool which doesn't take some of their block reward, will have an economic advantage, thus masternodes will become unfunded and be centralized (offered for free) by whomever can gain from stealing the anonymity (or what ever value they can extract from centralizing masternodes).

With the recent spork that was done with >90% of the network in acceptance, there are no more pools in darkcoin who can offer a block reward without paying the mns. therefore, miners who choose to mine at these pools will be at a distinct economic disadvantage to themselves. The network now rejects these blocks.

If the mn's are economically capable of offering mining for no fee, or a fee less than a non-mn pool (because of the 20% they're already allocated), then that would give them an economic edge over non mn pools. this does assume that the operational costs of the mn and the operational costs of running the pool combined are less than what it receives.

evan's latest post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg9103691#msg9103691

I wonder what the technical limitations are on lowering the amount required from 1000 units, to say, one or two units of the currency?

Add: I'd like to make the point that playing with this 20% payment will likely have immediate and lasting effects on the hashrate of the network, because of the chosen emission style where the hashrate defines the block reward. Please note that with this enforcement, the hashrate dropped to levels where the nodes and miners are receiving more currency than they did before because the block reward has moved from the 5drk minimum and now sits at ~7/8drk. I observe that a 20% cut in miner pay seems to have resulted in a 40%50% increase in emission. With no real change in price, this serves to reward miners a net of 20% increase in pay/value reward compared to pre-spork.

As many miners may sell at market, this would require a 20% increase in purchasing power to keep this price. This can be countered with a price increase of 20% if someone wants to have the potential ability to collect 'anonymous' information through the masternodes in the future (add: or just really likes DRK ofc ). The price increase should logically be met with a 20% increase in hashrate from where it's at now (which will yield the 5 DRK/block emission), where it will sit until either buying or selling power takes precedence over the other; however, the buying pressure would still need to be increased 20% value-wise in order to maintain no change. The only real benefit to raising the price from a whales perspective in this AFAICS is to keep scarcity up, so that the 50% gain in emission doesn't dilute their current holdings. Personally, I'm expectinghoping for a 20% rise in the nearish future in order to tackle this very situation.

Alternatively, the price can decrease 20%. While this seems more likely, it could easily cascade into a decreasing hashrate which will yield an even higher emission (what difficulty does it increase from 7/8 per block to whatever's higher than that?) and then a possible 'race to the bottom'. Considering that there is the financial incentive of either the currency itself, or even the incentive of potentially having the ability to collect anonymous data, I'd think that the increased cost route might be justified. Not my money to spend though, nor do I know who's making the spending decisions so it's pretty up in the air.

Alternatively again, Wolf0 has just published a nice increase in hashing power. He says it's '34.34%' overall. The increased hashrate would increase the network difficulty to where it's again sitting at 5 drk/block. economic implications of this are left to anyone that would like to consider the value of purchasing his refinement of the mining algorithm. I'm sure it's less than paying all that extra money on the market

You make some cogent points, but I'm not sure any of it is really relevant in a scenario where we achieve widespread adoption. And without adoption we're ultimately dead anyway. I take it this came from a Monero thread? I've skimmed some of their emission debate, and I think they are focusing on entirely the wrong things.

The wider world doesn't give a damn about any of that, they (hopefully) want a fast, simple to use, secure and anonymous decentralised currency. When you 'buy' fiat by getting out of bed and going to work, do you worry about the technical nature of the printing press it came from, or do you just care about the actual utility?

Utility is what gives most things value, besides art/fashion/Apple etc.    If it isn't useful, and useable, it's just digital tulips.

[coins101]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/currency/11145696/British-bitcoin-start-up-Blockchain-raises-30m.html

Next headline........NoBlockhain service raises $100m to protect customers privacy from Blockchain.info

[illodin]

I take it this came from a Monero thread?

It's the The Monero Free For All Thread. I just couldn't miss the opportunity to pick AnonyMint's brain (TheFascistMind = AnonyMint) when it comes to mining even though it's a (yet another) monero thread. I'd rather not push the discussion further in that thread, as I don't like to try to shove DRK down the throats of the infidel in other coins' threads.

[TheUsualStuff]

cross post, b/c obviously off topic for that thread.

That is a thread waiting for an attack on XMR to come to the surface over the next 5-10 days, or not......DRK = off topic?

lol i guess drk's never really off topic, but it came up in that thread for the last few hours (guess they were just passing the time waiting to see what happens?). I think the conclusion I drew from the conversation was relevant to this thread, as many people in this thread likely don't visit that one.

You make some cogent points, but I'm not sure any of it is really relevant in a scenario where we achieve widespread adoption.

I totally agree, but I guess my sales pitch for wolf0's modifications was trying to encompass the idea that there are people with money tied up in this. personally, I've no attachment to the USD/BTC to drk price, because I'm more technically focused (because again, I agree with you that the utility will make the value). I find the economics hard to skip over in this situation due to the technical and economic relevance to the block reward. I also know that people do have lots of money tied up in this, and even further than that some will be selling within the next month to pay bills and what not.

I don't know that adoption, which in this case i've pegged to buying pressure, will be ready to match a 50% increased emission. I hope it does, and time will tell of course. I'm sure it will eventually. Either way, a 50% increased emission will tend to dilute current holdings in the long term faster than what it was a week ago. Maybe that means something important to someone, and maybe that same person has considered that the fiat/btc value of their DRK holdings is more important in the short term than the long-term value, and is/are considering economic changes that reflect the increased emission.

The point is that, the emission can be reduced by 50%33% right now by purchasing wolf's hashrate optimizations (add: I think). if that purchase is lower than it would cost someone, or a group of people, to wait out a potential downtrend (if it matters to them), by paying a lesser price for wolf's modifications then maybe someone can save money and a good developer can get paid?


one more add: can someone please clearly define the emission schedule for drk? last I read the block reward was dependent on the difficulty, so I'm drawing the conclusion that the recently decreased hashrate has resulted in a lower difficulty, which has increased the emission. Is this still true or haven't I done enough catching up?

j/k here's another: Block reward is controlled by: 2222222/(((Difficulty+2600)/9)^2), so for a 33% max increase here (yes I'm ignoring private miners just for this, the emission goes from 7/8 to a difficulty of ~2904 and a reward of (5.94?)

[thelonecrouton]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/currency/11145696/British-bitcoin-start-up-Blockchain-raises-30m.html

Next headline........NoBlockhain service raises $100m to protect customers privacy from Blockchain.info

Which demonstrates what I've been saying - ALL of the marketing (and any fundraising) efforts for Darkcoin should be pointed at the big wide, not fucking crytognats. Forget the crytoscene, it's utterly worthless.

Hunt the big game, not the cockroaches.

Think about it - $30 million for a fucking bitcoin wallet. What could Evan and team accomplish with $30 million? How many top-notch devs would that hire?

edit: With that kind of money we could have Darkcoin in the linux kernel. OK, not the kernel, but shipped as part of the standard Ubuntu and derivatives image. What kind of adoption would that bring us?

Duffield: Hi, is that Mark?
Shuttleworth: Yep!
Duffield: My name is Evan, and I want to give you $250000 to put open source financial privacy right on the Ubuntu desktop!
Shuttleworth: I don't know, that would take a lot of work...
Duffield: Nope, we've already done all that!
...
Some of the smaller distros would probably stick the qt wallet on the default desktop for a tin of beans and some kind words. Do we have a desktop icon?

I hope The Foundation are paying attention.

[GhostPlayer]

Holy crap !!

I only just realised MN enforcements is ON !!! weeee.....  

.!.  you Ghash.io, Nicehash and the other lot!

[Lauda]

Holy crap !!

I only just realised MN enforcements is ON !!! weeee.....  

.!.  you Ghash.io, Nicehash and the other lot!

Well finally you've realized it. I'm glad to see it being ON.
People who are against MN payments should just stay away from the coin. Nobody is forcing them to mine it.

[BrainShutdown]

ghash.io

826   2014-10-07 12:13:52   148607   7.0050   ORPHAN   13 minutes   1.55 Gh/s   0/5000008   0.00%   71226   -
825   2014-10-07 12:00:44   148602   7.0070   ORPHAN   6 hours   1.62 Gh/s   0/5000008   0.00%   1864450   -
824   2014-10-07 06:31:02   148474   9.0000   ORPHAN   an hour   1.73 Gh/s   0/5000014   0.00%   280395   -
823   2014-10-07 05:44:39   148455   5.0000   ORPHAN   2 hours   1.71 Gh/s   0/5000014   0.00%   706378   -
822   2014-10-07 03:46:06   148413   7.0000   ORPHAN   44 minutes   1.77 Gh/s   0/5000014   0.00%   275122   -
821   2014-10-07 03:01:43   148396   7.0030   ORPHAN   2 hours   1.80 Gh/s   0/5000014   0.00%   891145   -
820   2014-10-07 00:39:53   148342   8.0050   ORPHAN   42 minutes   1.80 Gh/s   0/5000011   0.00%   264691   -
819   2014-10-06 23:57:44   148319   7.0010   ORPHAN   3 hours   1.77 Gh/s   0/5000013   0.00%   1026527   -
818   2014-10-06 21:11:14   148263   6.0030   ORPHAN   4 hours   1.83 Gh/s   0/5000015   0.00%   1544763   -
817   2014-10-06 17:10:02   148169   6.0000   ORPHAN   2 hours   1.90 Gh/s   0/5000023   0.00%   854073   -
816   2014-10-06 15:01:27   148100   6.0000   ORPHAN   4 hours   1.98 Gh/s   0/5000023   0.00%   1866508   -

Incompetence?
Denial?  

[thelonecrouton]

ghash.io

826   2014-10-07 12:13:52   148607   7.0050   ORPHAN   13 minutes   1.55 Gh/s   0/5000008   0.00%   71226   -
825   2014-10-07 12:00:44   148602   7.0070   ORPHAN   6 hours   1.62 Gh/s   0/5000008   0.00%   1864450   -
824   2014-10-07 06:31:02   148474   9.0000   ORPHAN   an hour   1.73 Gh/s   0/5000014   0.00%   280395   -
823   2014-10-07 05:44:39   148455   5.0000   ORPHAN   2 hours   1.71 Gh/s   0/5000014   0.00%   706378   -
822   2014-10-07 03:46:06   148413   7.0000   ORPHAN   44 minutes   1.77 Gh/s   0/5000014   0.00%   275122   -
821   2014-10-07 03:01:43   148396   7.0030   ORPHAN   2 hours   1.80 Gh/s   0/5000014   0.00%   891145   -
820   2014-10-07 00:39:53   148342   8.0050   ORPHAN   42 minutes   1.80 Gh/s   0/5000011   0.00%   264691   -
819   2014-10-06 23:57:44   148319   7.0010   ORPHAN   3 hours   1.77 Gh/s   0/5000013   0.00%   1026527   -
818   2014-10-06 21:11:14   148263   6.0030   ORPHAN   4 hours   1.83 Gh/s   0/5000015   0.00%   1544763   -
817   2014-10-06 17:10:02   148169   6.0000   ORPHAN   2 hours   1.90 Gh/s   0/5000023   0.00%   854073   -
816   2014-10-06 15:01:27   148100   6.0000   ORPHAN   4 hours   1.98 Gh/s   0/5000023   0.00%   1866508   -

Incompetence?
Denial?  

~2GH is what, 500 280X cards @ 4MH/150W each, so 75000 Watts an hour of wasted electricity?

DON'T TELL THEM.

[rickraw]

ghash.io

826   2014-10-07 12:13:52   148607   7.0050   ORPHAN   13 minutes   1.55 Gh/s   0/5000008   0.00%   71226   -
825   2014-10-07 12:00:44   148602   7.0070   ORPHAN   6 hours   1.62 Gh/s   0/5000008   0.00%   1864450   -
824   2014-10-07 06:31:02   148474   9.0000   ORPHAN   an hour   1.73 Gh/s   0/5000014   0.00%   280395   -
823   2014-10-07 05:44:39   148455   5.0000   ORPHAN   2 hours   1.71 Gh/s   0/5000014   0.00%   706378   -
822   2014-10-07 03:46:06   148413   7.0000   ORPHAN   44 minutes   1.77 Gh/s   0/5000014   0.00%   275122   -
821   2014-10-07 03:01:43   148396   7.0030   ORPHAN   2 hours   1.80 Gh/s   0/5000014   0.00%   891145   -
820   2014-10-07 00:39:53   148342   8.0050   ORPHAN   42 minutes   1.80 Gh/s   0/5000011   0.00%   264691   -
819   2014-10-06 23:57:44   148319   7.0010   ORPHAN   3 hours   1.77 Gh/s   0/5000013   0.00%   1026527   -
818   2014-10-06 21:11:14   148263   6.0030   ORPHAN   4 hours   1.83 Gh/s   0/5000015   0.00%   1544763   -
817   2014-10-06 17:10:02   148169   6.0000   ORPHAN   2 hours   1.90 Gh/s   0/5000023   0.00%   854073   -
816   2014-10-06 15:01:27   148100   6.0000   ORPHAN   4 hours   1.98 Gh/s   0/5000023   0.00%   1866508   -

Incompetence?
Denial?  

~2GH is what, 500 280X cards @ 4MH/150W each, so 75000 Watts an hour of wasted electricity?

DON'T TELL THEM.

Ouch, you would think a large mining operation like that would monitor for orphan blocks and after 1 or even after a couple, someone would be on it immediately investigating for any issues.

[illodin]

^ that makes me think the reason they didn't update to 20% reward a while ago wasn't in fact greed or malice.