[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[toknormal]

artly because we knew something like a instamine would be perfect for "pumping" and the like, not much else.

So you're an "investment group" that thinks they can take control of an entire crypto just from the pawltry supply thats in a market at any given time.

Be advised that half the supply of this coin is already earning interest in providing network services and the other half is in hands that are guaranteed to be 99% not yours after a year of trundling along through every kind of fud & scam attack you can imagine without loosing value.

It already got pumped and dumped a year ago and survived, but most of all - in the eyes of the other 7 billion plus market participants that have yet to utter a phrase that has the word 'bit' in front of it - the "scam instamining" of the entire cryptocurrency industry will have far outdone anything this coin has been accused of by the time it hits them.

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[RenegadeMan]

There is certainly a bigger picture here.   So many of the individuals here really don't understand.  Any negative banter effects everyone...on all crypto coins.  Most of everyone here just doesn't seem to get it.  They have an agenda... Not realizing that they are screwing themselves.  In our case the instamine...well it happened,  nothing can be changed.  And truly who did this hurt,  where is the proof of harm to anyone? Who by that happening,  was harmed.   No one.  It's smoke and mirrors  ... And by now it's all Dispersed.  In fact I see it as stroke of good luck.   It allowed us to fuel paying full time Devs instead of starving and begging for donations. At this point it's old hat.   Joe public does not care or  have a clue what or why instamine is... And who cares.   It is always assumed that those that create something should be handsomely rewarded.  In fact,  what these individuals are people proposing is a socialist view that I don't believe in.    In the end... Your actions hurt everyone... By acting juvenile and ranting about something that is no longer relevant.  In the process.. Hurting everyone in the crypto world.  

Nailed it Bigr

I think I'll just pull this quote up each time these idiots plaster their negativity and fear all over our thread.

It's a bit like when you're at a football game and there are many tens of thousands of people enjoying the match; each with their preferred team in mind but mostly just thrilled to watch the spectacle of the two teams battling it out.

Then there are the small handful of idiots who come to the game with a hooligan mindset, itching to get into a spat with fans from the opposing side. They're not there to enjoy the game, to see proud and strong sportsmanship on display, they're there to take out their anger and pissedoffedness on anyone that's going to even look at them sideways.

They're thugs. Interested only in finding opportunities to satisfy their self-destructive tendencies for a punch up. They're going to have a fight regardless of whether someone provokes them or not. That's the whole reason they're there. Like English skinheads; they're up for it.

That's what we see in all these buffoons here in this thread. Unhappy, pissed off, I'm-so-angry-but-I-don't-know-why douche bags whose main objective is to put shit on anything that's good to try and get a response so they can fight!

The damage they do to crypto overall is the main issue. They're making a mockery of it and, like you say, Mr Joe Public cares not a jot for their claims, he just sees a whole lot of immature infighting and thinks "glad I'm not involved with that stupidity".

Eventually we'll rise above this pack of school playground cowards.

[TanteStefana2]

So many of the individuals here really don't understand.  Any negative banter effects everyone...on all crypto coins.  Most of everyone here just doesn't seem to get it.  They have an agenda... Not realizing that they are screwing themselves.  In our case the instamine...well it happened,  nothing can be changed

LoL ! Your giving them too much credit. It's not even as complicated as that.

Here's the real reason for the trolling - nothing to do with the "instamine".

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1001642.msg10959114#msg10959114

 (Point [2])

That was no less than brilliant communication.

[TanteStefana2]

I'm quoting this here from another thread (the monero vs drk thread) because, as usual, toknormal was brilliant and this deserves to be seen and read

toknormal I read through your post, and I have spent some time thinking about it and researching it.

Hello Debora

I also read through your post and appreciate your points which are clearly made in good faith so I'll respond in kind.

Without going through it point by point, I understand that you think that any form of service oriented functional diversity in a cryptocurrency network amounts to "centralisation" by the definition you cite, and is therefore "bad".

So I did some research on decentralization.... 'A centralised system is one in which a central controller exercises control over the lower-level components of the system...Doesn't that sound like MasterNodes?

What you've done here is start with your conclusion (centralisation) and worked back to the hypothesis. If you do that with almost any aspect of modern information systems you’ll get a “result”.

Lets be specific. A single Dash wallet may use several, randomly selected network peers (running exactly the same daemon) to provide it with a ‘service’. In the specific context that that one node depends on those other nodes to deliver the service, then there is some interdependency which you are free to interpret as you see fit. If you call it “centralisation” then you must at the same time dismiss any kind of service oriented functional diversity in the network as such. I’d see that as the “functional” aspect of the debate.

As far as the ‘structural’ aspect goes (the network composition), it’s academic. The network is in no way, shape or form centralised because no recourse to a central authority is required to operate a deamon in a service capacity (with ‘masternode=1’ in its config) and their function is reproducable as many times as you like. Nor can they be characterised as centralised by their hosting profile. Regardless of the hosting service, nodes remain functionally independent and secured by coin collateral. You can’t “take over” a masternode without having access to the private key that collateralises it. Even Vertoe himself endorsed this view:



https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=939072.msg10344491#msg10344491

What he alluded to as “centralised” was the fact that that the project has a lead dev who is probably irreplaceable. Well I won’t argue with that - at least in terms of his ideas - but I’m happy to accept it and take the risk for now as long as he looks both ways when he’s crossing the road.

You do the cryptography in Monero a disservice when you describe it as off-the-shelf. Ring signatures are not new cryptography but the application in Monero is definitely innovative.

Fair enough. I’m happy to accept that there’s something distinct there, but all I’m aware of is viewkeys and a database to hold the blockchain bloat. The problem here - at least for an investor - is that Cryptonote is a tiny market thats getting ever more crowded and my ‘off-the-shelf” remark refers to the fact that all the players subscribe to a common approach. For example here comes Bytcoin with a spanking new GUI wallet, the lack of which XMR holders have lamented for the best part of a year, but the anon-tech is stock.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1008146.msg10939927#msg10939927

If I had to guess I'd say 99% of the merchants out there use Bitpay or Coinbase or one of the others for interacting with Bitcoin, so I am not sure this is much of a problem, if at all.

I also think it's very cheeky of you to make a statement like this as if attributing the API compatability or the Dash GUI wallet to Evan's hard work. You and I both know that he hasn't worked on any of that from scratch. Maybe we can give him credit for minor changes to the Bitcoin GUI.

There is a much bigger point at stake here than what your alluding to.

A financial system is inherently a public asset. It is at once an economic continuum and a collection of private interests that have to be protected. The revolution of Bitcoin was to bring it into the open while anonymising its participants which it has done with incredible success (to see that, try tracing any of the heists that have taken place). People love the ecosystem of blockchain analysis tools, transparency, sense of participation and simultaneous preservation of their financial anonymity. It is the “holy grail” of money and it isn’t going away now that it’s “out there”.

What we don’t need IMO is to throw that entire revolution down a cryptographic black hole and send ourselves back to the dark ages - specially in the name of “disempowering the “elite”. Make no mistake, the “elite” will find it far easier to usurp a system where nobody can see anything than one who’s mechanics can be observed by everyone, that’s in the ‘ownership’ of everyone and that’s statistically accountable to everyone.

What bitcoin is missing is the ‘cash drawer’ metaphor that optimises its fungibility and protects anonymity at the same time. You don’t make an electronic monetary media more fungible by making it “invisible”. To be fungible, cash has to be visible otherwise what’s the point ? A viewkey that only lets you see a single address is ok for that one person, but you can’t run a financial system on that basis. If it's decentralised and free of counterparties (a banking system) then the economy as a whole has to be able to see it and audit it.

I’ve heard the arguments about cryptography vs Dash’s mixing algos and - although I accept that cryptography can do a better job of ”hiding” a transaction -  they don’t convince me as to their practical merits because; A) the practical difference in detectability is so marginal and B) they always compare 1 single pass of cryptographic ‘protection’ with a single pass of mixing which is totally unrealistic and always works in the Cryptonote’s favour. The reality is that in an open system with pre-emptive mixing the entire coin supply is being continually anonymised in the background. This IMO does justice to the twin objectives that Bitcoin had of an open, publicly accountable and owned financial system, combined with optimal preservation of its participant’s privacy.

That is what I meant by “legacy compliant”. The ability to take advantage of mobile wallet tech, commercial API’s and reporting tools are a handy bonus.

I used the People Behind Monero page on the Monero website, https://getmonero.org/knowledge-base/people, and I researched all the people there. They are mostly people who have been in the cryptocurrency community for years

Again - I don't doubt that they are all interested in crypto. I just don't see anyone who's a full time dev turning out core new features month after month. I see people who are either full time marketing or may "dip into the code" now and again. I don't know that to be categorically the case - I'm just saying what it looks like so happy to be corrected, but maintaining a code base is a very different skill to developing original work.

When I first bought my monero on the old cryptonote exchange I used a crappy old command line wallet to download it. That was the first “hint” I had that this project wasn’t ’very customer oriented’ and lacked developmental capacity. When I came back 9 months later I still had to use that thing and, despite what the websites say, getting simplewallet to run on a Mac under Terminal is murder - even if your a coder. What I was expecting was something like this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1008146.msg10939927#msg10939927

That roadmap at least alludes to some basic, user-oriented principles and adoption-oriented priorities (difficult to deliver on) as opposed to a load of downloaded academic quotes, graphics and theories (easy to deliver on).

You are passionate about Dash

I’m passionate about most of the tech in crypto - even cryptonote beleive it or not. What prompted me to contribute in the ‘tribal warfare’ of late was that I’d had enough of the Monero core team crawling over every thread that discussed Dash for the last 3 months and smothering any constructive discussion with a stream of emotive terms such as “broken”, “scam” and “fail” while incessantly maligning a perfectly good dev for being “incompetent” and even “fraudulent”. It’s been a campaign of defamation which has bordered on a witch hunt at times and is odious to watch.

Another reason the wars and mud slinging is unnecessary is because, as I’ve described above, it’s an apples and pears product comparison like Concorde fans berating 747 fans for being too slow. The real comparison gets totally lost (which may be their intention) and that is:

[1] - an open, transparent financial system that’s accountable to both the individual and the collective economy VS a closed one who’s only observable facet is a single account by a single individual

[2] - functional diversification of cryptocurrency networks into service oriented architectures VS mono functional, high redundancy ones

You pays your money and takes your choice. I don’t mind which one you pick, but if someone tries to convince me that the choice is between a “broken” and “working” architecture when the reality is much more profound, then I can only assume they’re trying to disguise the poverty of their own offering.

[RenegadeMan]

I'm quoting this here from another thread (the monero vs drk thread) because, as usual, toknormal was brilliant and this deserves to be seen and read

Yep, it's another brilliant reply from Tok. He's able to wipe off the mud, break the key accusations and rhetoric down into discussable chunks and work through the argument in a constructive manner that makes the FUDsters look terribly inadequate by comparison. Unfortunately though, because of the tribal "up for a fight"/something's-really-hooked-me-and-I'm-gonna-spew-lies-and-venom mentality we're seeing in plague proportions from the (mostly) Monero people, all that concise and intelligent articulation of the key issues at hand gets lost in the noise.

Thanks for the repost.

[TanteStefana2]

I'm quoting this here from another thread (the monero vs drk thread) because, as usual, toknormal was brilliant and this deserves to be seen and read

Yep, it's another brilliant reply from Tok. He's able to wipe off the mud, break the key accusations and rhetoric down into discussable chunks and work through the argument in a constructive manner that makes the FUDsters look terribly inadequate by comparison. Unfortunately though, because of the tribal "up for a fight"/something's-really-hooked-me-and-I'm-gonna-spew-lies-and-venom mentality we're seeing in plague proportions from the (mostly) Monero people, all that concise and intelligent articulation of the key issues at hand gets lost in the noise.

Thanks for the repost.

It deserves to be read   Hope others will take the time to read it, especially if they're honestly thinking about their investment, and not just a bunch of trolls.

[arielbit]

There is certainly a bigger picture here.   So many of the individuals here really don't understand.  Any negative banter effects everyone...on all crypto coins.  Most of everyone here just doesn't seem to get it.  They have an agenda... Not realizing that they are screwing themselves.  In our case the instamine...well it happened,  nothing can be changed.  And truly who did this hurt,  where is the proof of harm to anyone? Who by that happening,  was harmed.   No one.  It's smoke and mirrors  ... And by now it's all Dispersed.  In fact I see it as stroke of good luck.   It allowed us to fuel paying full time Devs instead of starving and begging for donations. At this point it's old hat.   Joe public does not care or  have a clue what or why instamine is... And who cares.   It is always assumed that those that create something should be handsomely rewarded.  In fact,  what these individuals are people proposing is a socialist view that I don't believe in.    In the end... Your actions hurt everyone... By acting juvenile and ranting about something that is no longer relevant.  In the process.. Hurting everyone in the crypto world.  

Nailed it Bigr

I think I'll just pull this quote up each time these idiots plaster their negativity and fear all over our thread.

It's a bit like when you're at a football game and there are many tens of thousands of people enjoying the match; each with their preferred team in mind but mostly just thrilled to watch the spectacle of the two teams battling it out.

Then there are the small handful of idiots who come to the game with a hooligan mindset, itching to get into a spat with fans from the opposing side. They're not there to enjoy the game, to see proud and strong sportsmanship on display, they're there to take out their anger and pissedoffedness on anyone that's going to even look at them sideways.

They're thugs. Interested only in finding opportunities to satisfy their self-destructive tendencies for a punch up. They're going to have a fight regardless of whether someone provokes them or not. That's the whole reason they're there. Like English skinheads; they're up for it.

That's what we see in all these buffoons here in this thread. Unhappy, pissed off, I'm-so-angry-but-I-don't-know-why douche bags whose main objective is to put shit on anything that's good to try and get a response so they can fight!

The damage they do to crypto overall is the main issue. They're making a mockery of it and, like you say, Mr Joe Public cares not a jot for their claims, he just sees a whole lot of immature infighting and thinks "glad I'm not involved with that stupidity".

Eventually we'll rise above this pack of school playground cowards.

Darkcoin/DASH is the centralized shit that is making a damage and mockery to crypto, and the buying of dashcoin dev accounts is a one big mockery

[RenegadeMan]

Arielbit you are such a buffoon!

You bring ABSOLUTELY NOTHING (and I don't need to use big red letters.....so lame) to the table except the same old cries of "SCAM SCAM!!" and blaming of Dash for your project's dev selling out and disappearing.

Mate, there are better things you can be doing. For goodness' sake, go and do them!

[arielbit]

Arielbit you are such a buffoon!

You bring ABSOLUTELY NOTHING (and I don't need to use big red letters.....so lame) to the table except the same old cries of "SCAM SCAM!!" and blaming of Dash for your project's dev selling out and disappearing.

Mate, there are better things you can be doing. For goodness' sake, go and do them!

i'm already doing it  

don't like the big letters that nailed you?  

i'm cooking some stew and gonna fix some electrical wiring, so see ya circle jerks  


@ ceti

nope. i'm still waiting for dashcoin to enter sharing mode (when price does not matter)...its a bytecoin clone so our developments are super low cost..its weakness being just a clone is its strength, so you guys are gonna have a very hard time killing it. enjoy the "dash" chaos  

[bigrcanada]

Arielbit you are a buffoon!

Talk is cheap and further more We Don't care what u doing.

[coinmaster222]

I own 852 coins in DRK or whatever its called now,still have not downloaded the new wallet as I keep all my wallets offline and never got round to it.Now I hear there Is one man running the show through the dark coin foundation !!!
Can you please explain your role on the foundation board and how you came to obtain the position? Was there a vote I missed or something?

[bigrcanada]

I own 852 coins in DRK or whatever its called now,still have not downloaded the new wallet as I keep all my wallets offline and never got round to it.Now I hear there Is one man running the show through the dark coin foundation !!!
Can you please explain your role on the foundation board and how you came to obtain the position? Was there a vote I missed or something?

Nothing has changed since you last bought drk/DASH.  It's now finally been rebranded to DASH.  There have been a couple of personal changes.  Same core Dev team... Same plan and vision.  That's it.  

FYI... Foundation members,  I believe Vote,  for foundation board members.   Holding dash which = currency does equal voting... No more then a Chinese national holding USD gives him the right to vote for a president. 

[arielbit]

I own 852 coins in DRK or whatever its called now,still have not downloaded the new wallet as I keep all my wallets offline and never got round to it.Now I hear there Is one man running the show through the dark coin foundation !!!
Can you please explain your role on the foundation board and how you came to obtain the position? Was there a vote I missed or something?

Nothing has changed since you last bought drk/DASH.  It's now finally been rebrand to DASH.  There have been a couple of personal changes. Same core Dev team... Same plan and vision.  That's it.  

let me hit you here with colors and big alphabets like renegademan

red = false , core dev team loses kyle and vertoe

no.

i left because i disagree darkcoin or however it will be called next year is not a decentralized entity. it never was but i ignored it as long as darkcoin was following the same path i was following. the path to total financial privacy. and thats why i am so upset about how this currency is lead by a single person. darkcoin is like an old conservative company with strong hierarchical comamnd structures and a single person on the top of the pyramid. evan duffield. the rebranding using a detergent name was just a step forward in creating something like apple or paypal. fuck this i tell you. what we need is a trustless, decentralized and anonymous currency. darkcoin is not decentralized as it still relies on a single person. and this reaches deep into the code base.

the core devs were just a bunch of volunteers exploited for the big thing. the extended darkcoin team was the same with even a lower place to sit on that pyramid. and what was the darkcoin foundation again? right, something to reserve some rights on some names and collect money. who nominated and voted for the foundation board? who does even know who are these guys? how did we learn about the foundation? from local news papers! the team listings kept counting names of people nobody ever noticed before. and they never committed anything visible to the community or the repository. and i was spending 25 hours a day monitory everything that happened in the darkcoin community for more than a year. the things going on here are fishy, intransparent and rely on a single entity.

i will get out and and will contribute to something decentralized and anonymous. i always hoped darkcoin could fill that void. i cant blame anyone to stay with this project. you are probably investors trying to win a gold donkey. or you are simply trying to exploit every possible vector of profit in the coins space. whatever. you are not here because darkcoin is something it claims to be.

if you disagree with my statement above, i dont care, but answer that simple question: what if evan duffield suddenly announces he quits the project tomorrow morning?

good luck

[Kai Proctor]

The trolls are pretending to be shocked because the main dev, the creator of DASH takes some decisions and gives a general direction to a year old project. That's unheard of, I think that a dev must even let us vote before adding any line to the code like Satoshi did (sarcasm).

[hashmoon]

Was a little bored today so I made a list of the top posters over the last month:

Top 8 Posters Troll vs. Dash   
   
Dashing Dashers   
toknormal   436
GhostPlayer   375
etoque   341
coins101   305
bigrcanada   271
oblox   238
Sub-Ether   215
Minotaur26   208
Total   2389
   
Troll Brigade   
qwizzie   222
AdamWhite   217
iCEBREAKER   169
sangoku   109
qvan/arielbit/thedasher aka buffoon 183
smooth   94
wpalczynski   81
r4vani   80
Total   1175

i like this list.. gj

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

TAO'S TWITTER LOGO AND HEADER DESIGN CONTEST

And my 1000th post!

Cheers,

Tao

Bump. An awesome logo by anonymousxx1503 appears in the competition now... The bar just got raised! 

[bigrcanada]

And that is why I detest socialists!  Lol.  Well...couple of things I have learned.  They are scared of us... That is the only explanation why they are here... And as long as I keep seeing their names scroll by... I know we are winning...and the more I know they aren't working on  completing technology.  It's a win win here for us. Good night people....
  

[Bridgewater]

It is not suprising to me that the trolls here are so scared of DASH.  Their mindless cut/paste throwing around of things they perceive to be negativity in effort to influence some unidentified audience -- "everybody know darkcoin is instamine scamerzcoin, coz vertoe!"-- shows a genuine lack of respnsibility for their own communication.   Their behavior is actually evidence of a larger societal problem that this project itself helps solve: lack of personal responsibility.

Over and above responsibility for one's own communication, one must be responsible for one's money and hard work in generel. Fiat money is key component of the broader flawed value system we have today in which individuals are encouraged to blame others for their problems, not think for themselves, not take personal responsiblity for anything--especially money, trust and hard work.

As Bigrcanada said, people like these trolls are threatened by Evan and like-minded creative "doers" who actually accomplish things in spite of all the negativity and risks involved.  I am surprised ANYTHING productive still gets done these days, with an increasing number of nay-sayers being heeded at every turn. "Oh, you can't do that, you're a racist!"  "Oh, you can't possibly do that, you'll use up those precious trees," "And good god, what about the poor polar bears?!"

Someone new coming here and bandying about an out-of-context opinion of someone he has never met and adding "oh, burn!" at the end is plain pathetic, as it shows he has no actual ideas or creativity of his own.  To those individuals, I ask "how are YOU personally harmed by someone else's frustration about some past event in which you were in no way involved?"

It reminds me of a few agenda-hyper environmentalists I've met, the kind who constantly look to put a negative spin on any actions they see people taking, because they only choose to see that somehow man is destroying the environment. If all they keep looking for is the negative in things people do, to them the act of "doing" anything becomes negative itself.  That means for many of these people, their underlying motive is in fact, the death of humanity as we know it.  Life means progress, which requires forward movement, consumption, creation and output.

If you want to do somthing for the "greater good," CREATE! Don't simply try to DESTROY for the sake of destruction. Have an actual purpose other than destruction.  Be pro-human.  Otherwise, admit the truth, that you DO in fact have a purpose: to try to improve your own investment by attempting to dupe unsuspecting investors here into believing that some kind of negative sentiment exists.

[TanteStefana2]

It is not suprising to me that the trolls here are so scared of DASH.  Their mindless cut/paste throwing around of things they perceive to be negativity in effort to influence some unidentified audience -- "everybody know darkcoin is instamine scamerzcoin, coz vertoe!"-- shows a genuine lack of respnsibility for their own communication.   Their behavior is actually evidence of a larger societal problem that this project itself helps solve: lack of personal responsibility.

Over and above responsibility for one's own communication, one must be responsible for one's money and hard work in generel. Fiat money is key component of the broader flawed value system we have today in which individuals are encouraged to blame others for their problems, not think for themselves, not take personal responsiblity for anything--especially money, trust and hard work.

As Bigrcanada said, people like these trolls are threatened by Evan and like-minded creative "doers" who actually accomplish things in spite of all the negativity and risks involved.  I am surprised ANYTHING productive still gets done these days, with an increasing number of nay-sayers being heeded at every turn. "Oh, you can't do that, you're a racist!"  "Oh, you can't possibly do that, you'll use up those precious trees," "And good god, what about the poor polar bears?!"

Someone new coming here and bandying about an out-of-context opinion of someone he has never met and adding "oh, burn!" at the end is plain pathetic, as it shows he has no actual ideas or creativity of his own.  To those individuals, I ask "how are YOU personally harmed by someone else's frustration about some past event in which you were in no way involved?"

It reminds me of a few agenda-hyper environmentalists I've met, the kind who constantly look to put a negative spin on any actions they see people taking, because they only choose to see that somehow man is destroying the environment. If all they keep looking for is the negative in things people do, to them the act of "doing" anything becomes negative itself.  That means for many of these people, their underlying motive is in fact, the death of humanity as we know it.  Life means progress, which requires forward movement, consumption, creation and output.

If you want to do somthing for the "greater good," CREATE! Don't simply try to DESTROY for the sake of destruction. Have an actual purpose other than destruction.  Be pro-human.  Otherwise, admit the truth, that you DO in fact have a purpose: to try to improve your own investment by attempting to dupe unsuspecting investors here into believing that some kind of negative sentiment exists.

Misery loves company.

[MasterMined710]

AMBER ALERT!

(just kidding)

Looks like we're going to get a reprieve from the trolling for a bit.  Is the best/brightest/mostest anon coin in trouble?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.23340

Monero is fundamentally broken and they are going to attempt a hardfork to try and fix it. Looks like they have a lot of work to do to try and save it, so much for a official gui wallet this year. RIP