[NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread

[deftonikus]

YES, totally agree from some point promotion should be mandatory, that is as effective as it gets... GOOD IDEA!!!

[utopianfuture]

Utopianfuture,


You said the price would increase to 3000-4000 NXT. Now you have it listed that there will only be a 5 NXT increase after every ten pages after 250 NXT. You should not be changing funding rules after accepting peoples money. This change in funding rules has now devalued all of the previous investors contributions, and makes it seems like a ploy to get early investors interested. If you keep up with these tactics people will lose trust in this project.

I don't agree, as long as difficulty to join is increasing and not decreasing, im OK with that.

That was one of my prediction of the price when we launch the genesis block. I think it is a conservative guess. But the fundraising will be over well before that point and the fee to join in is never intended to be that high because we want a lot of people to join in.

[utopianfuture]

Just an idea to get less 'sockpuppets'. From now on you could require both the fee AND promotion (proof). Say from page 75 onwards, would increase the visibility better too.

Okie let's experiment some ways to restrict sockpuppet accounts; but let's do it at page 81 since the rules until page 80 has been set.

[mailmansDOG]

and what is this exactly?

[wakasaki808]

Just an idea to get less 'sockpuppets'. From now on you could require both the fee AND promotion (proof). Say from page 75 onwards, would increase the visibility better too.

Okie let's experiment some ways to restrict sockpuppet accounts; but let's do it at page 81 since the rules until page 80 has been set.

you talking like create something about a minimum requirement? So like must have been created prior to announcement of NEM and/or any of the NXT clones?

[utopianfuture]

Just an idea to get less 'sockpuppets'. From now on you could require both the fee AND promotion (proof). Say from page 75 onwards, would increase the visibility better too.

Okie let's experiment some ways to restrict sockpuppet accounts; but let's do it at page 81 since the rules until page 80 has been set.

you talking like create something about a minimum requirement? So like must have been created prior to announcement of NEM and/or any of the NXT clones?

Not really because a disclaimer is already put there that  "the fund raising terms are subject to changes upon the discretion of the development team" to ensure  idea of " Completely Fair Distribution - Equal Shares for ALL". If the community think that the issue of socketpuppet account damages "Completely Fair Distribution" then we going to implement a counter-measure. But it will not apply retrospectively, only from page 81 and up.

But if we are going to implement a counter-measure, I need someone to be able to police it because I can't track all of these myself.

[Zoella]

For any posts BEFORE page 81, any NXT/BTC account that has been used to submit buy-in more than once should be reviewed. If tied to multiple accounts, refund all transactions after the first and mark the user accounts of all the subsequent requests as ineligible.

[Zoella]

Just an idea to get less 'sockpuppets'. From now on you could require both the fee AND promotion (proof). Say from page 75 onwards, would increase the visibility better too.

Okie let's experiment some ways to restrict sockpuppet accounts; but let's do it at page 81 since the rules until page 80 has been set.

Agree, mostly.  Any OBVIOUS dupes should be removed however.

[utopianfuture]

For any posts BEFORE page 81, any NXT/BTC account that has been used to submit buy-in more than once should be reviewed. If tied to multiple accounts, refund all transactions after the first and mark the user accounts of all the subsequent requests as ineligible.

No we don't apply a new law retrospectively since it will ruin NEM's reputation.  

[utopianfuture]

How about we will check the sending address, if this address has sent money to NEM account before then the money sent will be considered a donation ?

[Zoella]

For any posts BEFORE page 81, any NXT/BTC account that has been used to submit buy-in more than once should be reviewed. If tied to multiple accounts, refund all transactions after the first and mark the user accounts of all the subsequent requests as ineligible.

No we don't apply a new law retrospectively since it will ruin NEM's reputation.  

Not in my opinion.  It is in your FAQ...

4. How could you prevent multiple buy-ins ?

In short - We can't. Multiple buy-in will be possible with multiple accounts. We also want you to have the ability to buy a NEM stake for your loved ones so they could all join the movement. However accumulating many NEM stakes goes against NEM's principles of fairness and equality, therefore the development team reserves the right to refund you the money if an effort to unfairly accumulate NEM stakes is discovered.

Think the NEM reputation is taking a pretty big hit on this already.

[utopianfuture]

For any posts BEFORE page 81, any NXT/BTC account that has been used to submit buy-in more than once should be reviewed. If tied to multiple accounts, refund all transactions after the first and mark the user accounts of all the subsequent requests as ineligible.

No we don't apply a new law retrospectively since it will ruin NEM's reputation.  

Not in my opinion.  It is in your FAQ...

4. How could you prevent multiple buy-ins ?

In short - We can't. Multiple buy-in will be possible with multiple accounts. We also want you to have the ability to buy a NEM stake for your loved ones so they could all join the movement. However accumulating many NEM stakes goes against NEM's principles of fairness and equality, therefore the development team reserves the right to refund you the money if an effort to unfairly accumulate NEM stakes is discovered.

Think the NEM reputation is taking a pretty big hit on this already.

Not as applying new law retrospectively, imho.

[Zoella]

How about we will check the sending address, if this address has sent money to NEM account before then the money sent will be considered a donation ?

Agreed, but I still think it should be done before page 81.  It's not much, but at least it means using mutliple BCT.org accounts and multiple funding acounts.  

[Zoella]

For any posts BEFORE page 81, any NXT/BTC account that has been used to submit buy-in more than once should be reviewed. If tied to multiple accounts, refund all transactions after the first and mark the user accounts of all the subsequent requests as ineligible.

No we don't apply a new law retrospectively since it will ruin NEM's reputation.  

Not in my opinion.  It is in your FAQ...

4. How could you prevent multiple buy-ins ?

In short - We can't. Multiple buy-in will be possible with multiple accounts. We also want you to have the ability to buy a NEM stake for your loved ones so they could all join the movement. However accumulating many NEM stakes goes against NEM's principles of fairness and equality, therefore the development team reserves the right to refund you the money if an effort to unfairly accumulate NEM stakes is discovered.

Think the NEM reputation is taking a pretty big hit on this already.

Not as applying new law retrospectively, imho.

Understood.  Just as an FYI, I did recommend to a few people that they get in on this.  I have since told them that if they haven't already, not to bother.  At this point, it's not much different than NXT anymore.  At $5USD it was just a lottery ticket.  At $20 it's not worth the effort if we see the same concern.

[utopianfuture]

For any posts BEFORE page 81, any NXT/BTC account that has been used to submit buy-in more than once should be reviewed. If tied to multiple accounts, refund all transactions after the first and mark the user accounts of all the subsequent requests as ineligible.

No we don't apply a new law retrospectively since it will ruin NEM's reputation.  

Not in my opinion.  It is in your FAQ...

4. How could you prevent multiple buy-ins ?

In short - We can't. Multiple buy-in will be possible with multiple accounts. We also want you to have the ability to buy a NEM stake for your loved ones so they could all join the movement. However accumulating many NEM stakes goes against NEM's principles of fairness and equality, therefore the development team reserves the right to refund you the money if an effort to unfairly accumulate NEM stakes is discovered.

Think the NEM reputation is taking a pretty big hit on this already.

Not as applying new law retrospectively, imho.

Understood.  Just as an FYI, I did recommend to a few people that they get in on this.  I have since told them that if they haven't already, not to bother.  At this point, it's not much different than NXT anymore.  At $5USD it was just a lottery ticket.  At $20 it's not worth the effort if we see the same concern.

Disagree. As I explain here  "Yep, the fundraising has some incentives built in so probably not perfectly fair. But when we start the genesis block, every stakeholders have an exactly equal footing- the term "completely fair distribution" indicates the fairness at genesis block not at the fund raising. That's being said NEM fundraising is still much better than some other cryptos". NEM fundraising is very different model from any other crypto to date.

To be honest, the project is very well funded by an amount much bigger than the fundraising here;I have guaranteed that the fund raised here won't be touched until we launch the genesis block.  

[utopianfuture]

How about we will check the sending address, if this address has sent money to NEM account before then the money sent will be considered a donation ?

Agreed, but I still think it should be done before page 81.  It's not much, but at least it means using mutliple BCT.org accounts and multiple funding acounts.  

Also let's hear other opinions from the community.

[Zoella]

OK, I must have missed something.  I guess I don't see the difference between the genesis block creation and the fundraising efforts (that include developer stake).  Also, what is this additional funding you mention, and how does that stake compare to the stake being applied to this round of fundraising?

[sacskate]

After checking both the nxt wallet and the bitcoin wallet I am a bit confused. There are less than 800 transactions combined. Some of the bitcoin transactions don't seem to be from buy-ins, so even less. The stakeholder doc lists well over 1000 users. Am I missing something or just being paranoid? It's almost like a bunch of those sock puppet accounts never actually sent any funds.

[HereComesTheSun]

oops, wrong thread

[hyunsookmom]

How about we will check the sending address, if this address has sent money to NEM account before then the money sent will be considered a donation ?

Agreed, but I still think it should be done before page 81.  It's not much, but at least it means using mutliple BCT.org accounts and multiple funding acounts.  

Also let's hear other opinions from the community.

Problem
If you do anything retroactively its tricky cause you have already allowed a guy with accounts called 'sockpuppet-1' etc and said multiple accounts were allowed. People will cry foul then you'll have a headache of complaining people. I don't want my NEM diluted too much but I'm still happy at the idea of getting 1M. I was so annoyed I didn't get in on NXT, the distribution was crazy with some with 50M etc that's the same as like 200 accounts of NEM due to it having less coins overall. Even the most dedicated sock puppets maker couldnt do that, and if they do then maybe they deserve it!

Solution
I think a simple post count would stop sock puppets maybe 10 cause with delay to post that's still a massive hassle for anyone wanting to game the system. Or how about posting a 100 word reason why they think they deserve to have the NEM? You only need to slow down sock puppets, cause you can't stop them completely, best just slow them down while others get their stake in.

My opinion
To be honest I feel its fair in the sense people have access this time and a heads up that the price 'might' increase a lot at the start, so people have time and foresight to buy. I honestly think people will be able to buy in early maybe even cheaper than the amounts being asked now, I plan to buy from the start. I think the idea that there was 4,000 accounts will be enough in peoples mind to know that it was a relatively fair distribution I think. You will always get complainers what ever you do, in many ways the complainers are breaking the spirit of the thing by their envy of a few sock puppet accounts. And a word of advice from someone who teaches children for a living. Don't be wishywashy on any rule you do decide, decide it, stick with it and don't change or move it. It opens things up for complainers.
Thats my 5 cents, maybe others have a different opinion.