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Author Topic: Acorn M.2 FPGA based GPU Accelerator  (Read 69328 times)
mfurman
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December 04, 2018, 10:27:35 PM
Last edit: December 05, 2018, 03:12:30 PM by mfurman
 #1121

Do You think that we are going to see the miner done ?

When I was given the chance to be refunded last month I took the refund.

I was afraid of no software support.



Sad so sad.

You said word for word what I did and thought/think

I think that was foolish, especially at the acorns low price. The I understand the $5000+ ones but those are more general bitstreams. The early bird gets the worm in the world of mining and Philip knows this, a few hundred is a low risk for an fpga that can easily be reprogramed to new algorithms.

Acorn does not "have a low price". It is currently at least 50% more expensive than RX580 and will not earn more (even with the low power usage) than this GPU. GPUs can be sold and I have my doubts about Acorn. I am done with GPU mining and mentally out of mining all together. I do not believe in this illusive big rebound of crypto. There will be more and more POS coins and centralization will creep in.
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kingcolex
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December 04, 2018, 10:46:42 PM
 #1122

Do You think that we are going to see the miner done ?

When I was given the chance to be refunded last month I took the refund.

I was afraid of no software support.



Sad so sad.

You said word for word what I did and thought/think

I think that was foolish, especially at the acorns low price. The I understand the $5000+ ones but those are more general bitstreams. The early bird gets the worm in the world of mining and Philip knows this, a few hundred is a low risk for an fpga that can easily be reprogramed to new algorithms.

Acorn does not "have a low price". It is currently at least 50% more expensive than RX580 and will not earn more (even with the low power usage) than this GPU. GPUs can be sold and I have my doubts about Acorn. I am done with GPU mining and mentally out of mining all together. I do not believe in this illusive big rebound of crypto. There will be more and POS coins and centralization will creep in.

You have obviously not been into buying mining gear for a long enough time. I remember the big first Asics costing ~3500 and at the time that was 70 bitcoins. Scrypt Titans were $10k a pop. We aren't talking cheap GPUs, this is fucking cheap when it's new to mining. The fpga cards are $5000 and that's still not bad at all because the way they will hold their value and can go for any algorithm with the correct bitstream. Just because you aren't used to high price mining means nothing.

You are also comparing a single alpha bitstream by a Random user to a fully developed and optimized GPU. That's just faulty logic, solo mining isn't even the main reason for this being made.

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December 04, 2018, 10:56:17 PM
Last edit: December 04, 2018, 11:32:59 PM by mfurman
 #1123

Do You think that we are going to see the miner done ?

When I was given the chance to be refunded last month I took the refund.

I was afraid of no software support.



Sad so sad.

You said word for word what I did and thought/think

I think that was foolish, especially at the acorns low price. The I understand the $5000+ ones but those are more general bitstreams. The early bird gets the worm in the world of mining and Philip knows this, a few hundred is a low risk for an fpga that can easily be reprogrammed to new algorithms.




Acorn does not "have a low price". It is currently at least 50% more expensive than RX580 and will not earn more (even with the low power usage) than this GPU. GPUs can be sold and I have my doubts about Acorn. I am done with GPU mining and mentally out of mining all together. I do not believe in this illusive big rebound of crypto. There will be more and POS coins and centralization will creep in.

You have obviously not been into buying mining gear for a long enough time. I remember the big first Asics costing ~3500 and at the time that was 70 bitcoins. Scrypt Titans were $10k a pop. We aren't talking cheap GPUs, this is fucking cheap when it's new to mining. The fpga cards are $5000 and that's still not bad at all because the way they will hold their value and can go for any algorithm with the correct bitstream. Just because you aren't used to high price mining means nothing.

You are also comparing a single alpha bitstream by a Random user to a fully developed and optimized GPU. That's just faulty logic, solo mining isn't even the main reason for this being made.

Your vast experience aside, what is the main benefit of Acorn, in your mind? I mean gains of course. Is there even a concept of ROI for Acorn or ROI is only for newbies?
I do not think that any one who is mining at home can even remotely consider paying the prices, you mentioned when current high cost of electricity and pessimism of the market are taken into account. Keep in mind the price of Z9 mini when it was release - this, together with its gains in Summer, is a reference point for many (regardless if you consider it to be unreasonable or not)
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December 04, 2018, 11:01:38 PM
 #1124

It's pretty clear from the descriptions of the product that its primary use is to boost gpus, not standalone mining. I'm sure standalone mining will be one application, but it was designed as an adjunct to gpus in order to handle compute-heavy work at much lower power usage. So the overall effect is generally an improved hash/watt. I do wish we had real benchmarks.
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December 04, 2018, 11:36:24 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
 #1125

Do You think that we are going to see the miner done ?

When I was given the chance to be refunded last month I took the refund.

I was afraid of no software support.



Sad so sad.

You said word for word what I did and thought/think

I think that was foolish, especially at the acorns low price. The I understand the $5000+ ones but those are more general bitstreams. The early bird gets the worm in the world of mining and Philip knows this, a few hundred is a low risk for an fpga that can easily be reprogramed to new algorithms.



Acorn does not "have a low price". It is currently at least 50% more expensive than RX580 and will not earn more (even with the low power usage) than this GPU. GPUs can be sold and I have my doubts about Acorn. I am done with GPU mining and mentally out of mining all together. I do not believe in this illusive big rebound of crypto. There will be more and POS coins and centralization will creep in.

You have obviously not been into buying mining gear for a long enough time. I remember the big first Asics costing ~3500 and at the time that was 70 bitcoins. Scrypt Titans were $10k a pop. We aren't talking cheap GPUs, this is fucking cheap when it's new to mining. The fpga cards are $5000 and that's still not bad at all because the way they will hold their value and can go for any algorithm with the correct bitstream. Just because you aren't used to high price mining means nothing.

You are also comparing a single alpha bitstream by a Random user to a fully developed and optimized GPU. That's just faulty logic, solo mining isn't even the main reason for this being made.

Your vast experience aside, what is the main benefit of Acorn, in your mind? I mean gains of course. Is there even a concept of ROI for Acorn or ROI is only for newbies?

The main benefit is to lower the electricity use which is as we all know the biggest thing against roi (if you had free power you'd be mining on wildly inefficient miners) it also increases hashrate which might (MIGHT) allow you to stay profitable in the upcoming era of FPGA miners all over the main algorithms. This means those who don't use fpga or fpga optimized GPU will be all pushed to unprofitability and have to mine GPU only algorithms which will be crowded with other unoptimized GPU farms, meaning more difficulty and lower profitability.

To hedge against this a few hundred dollars isn't bad even for a handful, if this goes great the supply won't be there. The issue on Chinese clones (which will appear if  this works well) will be incompatible bitstreams meaning first mover Advantage is huge.

mfurman
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December 05, 2018, 12:40:10 AM
 #1126

Do You think that we are going to see the miner done ?

When I was given the chance to be refunded last month I took the refund.

I was afraid of no software support.



Sad so sad.

You said word for word what I did and thought/think

I think that was foolish, especially at the acorns low price. The I understand the $5000+ ones but those are more general bitstreams. The early bird gets the worm in the world of mining and Philip knows this, a few hundred is a low risk for an fpga that can easily be reprogramed to new algorithms.



Acorn does not "have a low price". It is currently at least 50% more expensive than RX580 and will not earn more (even with the low power usage) than this GPU. GPUs can be sold and I have my doubts about Acorn. I am done with GPU mining and mentally out of mining all together. I do not believe in this illusive big rebound of crypto. There will be more and POS coins and centralization will creep in.

You have obviously not been into buying mining gear for a long enough time. I remember the big first Asics costing ~3500 and at the time that was 70 bitcoins. Scrypt Titans were $10k a pop. We aren't talking cheap GPUs, this is fucking cheap when it's new to mining. The fpga cards are $5000 and that's still not bad at all because the way they will hold their value and can go for any algorithm with the correct bitstream. Just because you aren't used to high price mining means nothing.

You are also comparing a single alpha bitstream by a Random user to a fully developed and optimized GPU. That's just faulty logic, solo mining isn't even the main reason for this being made.

Your vast experience aside, what is the main benefit of Acorn, in your mind? I mean gains of course. Is there even a concept of ROI for Acorn or ROI is only for newbies?

The main benefit is to lower the electricity use which is as we all know the biggest thing against roi (if you had free power you'd be mining on wildly inefficient miners) it also increases hashrate which might (MIGHT) allow you to stay profitable in the upcoming era of FPGA miners all over the main algorithms. This means those who don't use fpga or fpga optimized GPU will be all pushed to unprofitability and have to mine GPU only algorithms which will be crowded with other unoptimized GPU farms, meaning more difficulty and lower profitability.

To hedge against this a few hundred dollars isn't bad even for a handful, if this goes great the supply won't be there. The issue on Chinese clones (which will appear if  this works well) will be incompatible bitstreams meaning first mover Advantage is huge.


Perhaps you should look at what GPUHoarder was saying on sqrl-acorn Discord starting at 6:52 pm on Dec 4 (today)
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December 05, 2018, 01:33:38 AM
 #1127



[/quote]

Perhaps you should look at what GPUHoarder was saying on sqrl-acorn Discord starting at 6:52 pm on Dec 4 (today)
[/quote]

.....
yeah this shit again. ctrl c / ctrl v
kingcolex
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December 05, 2018, 02:17:47 AM
 #1128

Do You think that we are going to see the miner done ?

When I was given the chance to be refunded last month I took the refund.

I was afraid of no software support.



Sad so sad.

You said word for word what I did and thought/think

I think that was foolish, especially at the acorns low price. The I understand the $5000+ ones but those are more general bitstreams. The early bird gets the worm in the world of mining and Philip knows this, a few hundred is a low risk for an fpga that can easily be reprogramed to new algorithms.



Acorn does not "have a low price". It is currently at least 50% more expensive than RX580 and will not earn more (even with the low power usage) than this GPU. GPUs can be sold and I have my doubts about Acorn. I am done with GPU mining and mentally out of mining all together. I do not believe in this illusive big rebound of crypto. There will be more and POS coins and centralization will creep in.

You have obviously not been into buying mining gear for a long enough time. I remember the big first Asics costing ~3500 and at the time that was 70 bitcoins. Scrypt Titans were $10k a pop. We aren't talking cheap GPUs, this is fucking cheap when it's new to mining. The fpga cards are $5000 and that's still not bad at all because the way they will hold their value and can go for any algorithm with the correct bitstream. Just because you aren't used to high price mining means nothing.

You are also comparing a single alpha bitstream by a Random user to a fully developed and optimized GPU. That's just faulty logic, solo mining isn't even the main reason for this being made.

Your vast experience aside, what is the main benefit of Acorn, in your mind? I mean gains of course. Is there even a concept of ROI for Acorn or ROI is only for newbies?

The main benefit is to lower the electricity use which is as we all know the biggest thing against roi (if you had free power you'd be mining on wildly inefficient miners) it also increases hashrate which might (MIGHT) allow you to stay profitable in the upcoming era of FPGA miners all over the main algorithms. This means those who don't use fpga or fpga optimized GPU will be all pushed to unprofitability and have to mine GPU only algorithms which will be crowded with other unoptimized GPU farms, meaning more difficulty and lower profitability.

To hedge against this a few hundred dollars isn't bad even for a handful, if this goes great the supply won't be there. The issue on Chinese clones (which will appear if  this works well) will be incompatible bitstreams meaning first mover Advantage is huge.


Perhaps you should look at what GPUHoarder was saying on sqrl-acorn Discord starting at 6:52 pm on Dec 4 (today)
I don't follow their discord so I don't have a link but I don't care what he thinks, it won't change what is happening.

SQRL could have never exist, it wouldn't matter the only difference would be that FPGAs would still have a higher barrier of entry. The roi would still happen on the $5,000 cards and they would reinvest (all of those mining on them) until difficulty for everyone else is fucked and the gpu miners are on only ProgPOW and every other coin was FPGA only.

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December 05, 2018, 03:50:33 AM
 #1129

Well, this is a forum for GPUHoarder's Acorn (not any FPGA) so what he plans to do is relevant.
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December 05, 2018, 04:13:40 AM
 #1130

Thanks so much for selling a useless FPGA without the needed program, you FUCKING USELESS DOUCHES!
 
Calm your shit, it's barely out. Did you even buy one or are you angry because?

You don't rush software unless you want broken buggy stuff.

You don't rush selling hardware to the public without the applicable software; especially when there were delays that should have given additional time to develop software lol...
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December 05, 2018, 04:50:42 AM
 #1131



Perhaps you should look at what GPUHoarder was saying on sqrl-acorn Discord starting at 6:52 pm on Dec 4 (today)

What did he say?
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December 05, 2018, 05:11:00 AM
 #1132

Thanks so much for selling a useless FPGA without the needed program, you FUCKING USELESS DOUCHES!
 
Calm your shit, it's barely out. Did you even buy one or are you angry because?

You don't rush software unless you want broken buggy stuff.

You don't rush selling hardware to the public without the applicable software; especially when there were delays that should have given additional time to develop software lol...

I think the above comments are a little overheated:

1) There are many complex engineering projects that end up behind schedule because of the technical challenge, software/hardware integration issues, suppliers and or money. Examples of projects having no shortage of money and people are the F-35, the large hadron collider and the James Webb space telescope. They were/(are) overbudget and overschedule. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

2) In terms of selling hardware to the public before the there was much software, I believe this was an IBM specialty.

3) There is, in the short history of crypto, a track record of some software whiz squeezing out another 25% - 50% in performance out of the hardware. The 1080ti being the latest example.

Right now is a good time to prepare.


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December 05, 2018, 10:47:15 AM
 #1133

Thanks so much for selling a useless FPGA without the needed program, you FUCKING USELESS DOUCHES!
 
Calm your shit, it's barely out. Did you even buy one or are you angry because?

You don't rush software unless you want broken buggy stuff.

You don't rush selling hardware to the public without the applicable software; especially when there were delays that should have given additional time to develop software lol...
Why not? So people could complain that they were mining on them themselves and holding them before releasing the product. Because that's exactly what would be said if they decide to not send out finished hardware over software, people wouldn't believe them.

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December 05, 2018, 12:18:53 PM
 #1134

Thanks so much for selling a useless FPGA without the needed program, you FUCKING USELESS DOUCHES!
 
Calm your shit, it's barely out. Did you even buy one or are you angry because?

You don't rush software unless you want broken buggy stuff.

You don't rush selling hardware to the public without the applicable software; especially when there were delays that should have given additional time to develop software lol...
Why not? So people could complain that they were mining on them themselves and holding them before releasing the product. Because that's exactly what would be said if they decide to not send out finished hardware over software, people wouldn't believe them.
Acorn was to be released in August. Whenever there were questions about SQRL Miner (to test it even without Acorn) the answer was that it would be released with Acorns. It is already December 5. Hardware without software is useless. By the way, the numbers illustrating the advantage of using Acorn, were released in June, I believe.
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December 05, 2018, 12:25:05 PM
 #1135



Perhaps you should look at what GPUHoarder was saying on sqrl-acorn Discord starting at 6:52 pm on Dec 4 (today)

What did he say?


Among other things, he said:

"
GPUHoarderToday at 6:52 PM
The thing with GPUs was that for GPUs the ratio of power to revenue -> profit is much higher, so as revenue squeezed profit squeezed to nothing much faster than standalone(edited)
GPU Assist squeezed less, but still much more than standalone
GPU Assist is awesome, and a support nightmare is what I’m anticipating

GPUHoarderToday at 7:08 PM
So I.e. the bitstream we used for testing that can only be flashed over jtag, and can’t be updated in field isn’t very helpful. we also initially early on used three different open source miners with hacked in acorn support for testing and then refining our kernels, also not releasable easily.

GPUHoarderToday at 7:09 PM
Coin X makes $1.00 a day, and costs $0.50 in power on a GPU. Coin Y makes $0.30 a day on Acorn stand-alone
Acorn makes coin X power drop down to $0.20/day - profit goes from $0.50 to 0.80.(edited)
Stand alone same profit as GPU assist
Now half revenue(edited)
Coin X is now break even on GPU
With assist, makes $0.30 a day,
Coin Y still makes $0.15 day
Half it again

Now now coin X makes $0.05/day with assist, and Coin Y makes $0.075


GPUHoarderToday at 7:14 PM
That’s the scenario we are in now - power is such a large component of GPU coin and such a small component of FPGA coin

.................


GPUHoarderToday at 7:41 PM
As soon as it is profitable it gets driven to edge because so many GPU operations are desperate for profit
GPUHoarderToday at 7:41 PM
And there are now a large number of FPGA ops just scanning the horizon constantly for new opportunities



"
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December 05, 2018, 12:29:08 PM
 #1136


Acorn was to be released in August. Whenever there were questions about SQRL Miner (to test it even without Acorn) the answer was that it would be released with Acorns. It is already December 5. Hardware without software is useless. By the way, the numbers illustrating the advantage of using Acorn, were released in June, I believe.
Exactly. Back in june for example a 1080 Ti was able to reach 15-18 MH/s, depending on PL. Now we are at 24-28 MH/s.
No information if the Acorn FPGA is able to generate the same percentage of improvement or if the software miner were able to close the gap "a little".
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December 05, 2018, 12:49:39 PM
 #1137


Acorn was to be released in August. Whenever there were questions about SQRL Miner (to test it even without Acorn) the answer was that it would be released with Acorns. It is already December 5. Hardware without software is useless. By the way, the numbers illustrating the advantage of using Acorn, were released in June, I believe.
Exactly. Back in june for example a 1080 Ti was able to reach 15-18 MH/s, depending on PL. Now we are at 24-28 MH/s.
No information if the Acorn FPGA is able to generate the same percentage of improvement or if the software miner were able to close the gap "a little".
That's due to the eth enlargement pill which was a unique case, that still doesn't have anything to do with fpga. Software solutions wouldn't be able to compete with offloading certain work to an fpga that the fpga is excellent at.

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December 05, 2018, 01:08:14 PM
 #1138


Acorn was to be released in August. Whenever there were questions about SQRL Miner (to test it even without Acorn) the answer was that it would be released with Acorns. It is already December 5. Hardware without software is useless. By the way, the numbers illustrating the advantage of using Acorn, were released in June, I believe.
Exactly. Back in june for example a 1080 Ti was able to reach 15-18 MH/s, depending on PL. Now we are at 24-28 MH/s.
No information if the Acorn FPGA is able to generate the same percentage of improvement or if the software miner were able to close the gap "a little".
That's due to the eth enlargement pill which was a unique case, that still doesn't have anything to do with fpga. Software solutions wouldn't be able to compete with offloading certain work to an fpga that the fpga is excellent at.
I forgot to add the information I talk about X16R ... not ETH. Sorry for the missing info. Pill don't have an effect on X16R because of the low RAM dependency.
All cards (1050 Ti also for example) have seen a very large hashrate improvement since the promises about increased X16R hashrate with acorns was released.
The question is, how is the improvement today?

ETH different story.
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December 05, 2018, 04:31:53 PM
 #1139

Thanks so much for selling a useless FPGA without the needed program, you FUCKING USELESS DOUCHES!
 
Calm your shit, it's barely out. Did you even buy one or are you angry because?

You don't rush software unless you want broken buggy stuff.

You don't rush selling hardware to the public without the applicable software; especially when there were delays that should have given additional time to develop software lol...
Why not? So people could complain that they were mining on them themselves and holding them before releasing the product. Because that's exactly what would be said if they decide to not send out finished hardware over software, people wouldn't believe them.
Acorn was to be released in August. Whenever there were questions about SQRL Miner (to test it even without Acorn) the answer was that it would be released with Acorns. It is already December 5. Hardware without software is useless. By the way, the numbers illustrating the advantage of using Acorn, were released in June, I believe.

So if they made them up  and believed they could write software to achieve those numbers it has now created an interesting problem for them.

Have to say gear looks nice.


Seems to be they should be able to show us  those  estimates  were real right now  and they don't.

Frankly that =  "bad news"





I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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December 05, 2018, 04:45:48 PM
 #1140

....
Acorn was to be released in August. Whenever there were questions about SQRL Miner (to test it even without Acorn) the answer was that it would be released with Acorns. It is already December 5. Hardware without software is useless. By the way, the numbers illustrating the advantage of using Acorn, were released in June, I believe.

So if they made them up  and believed they could write software to achieve those numbers it has now created an interesting problem for them.

Have to say gear looks nice.


Seems to be they should be able to show us  those  estimates  were real right now  and they don't.

Frankly that =  "bad news"


Here is what GPUHoarder said yesterday:

"GPUHoarderToday at 6:57 PM
So here’s how Acorns went - we built the first Hand Built prototype boards, of which 3 actually functioned (1 was later broken before it got much life) early in the summer. A combination of the two remaining prototypes and AC701 boards were used to prove out functionality - including ethash, CN, Lyra2re2 and X16r algo support bitstream.

GPUHoarderToday at 6:59 PM
We proved out and metered exactly how much state bandwidth we can get on/off acorn in full duplex, and the performance and power of all the bitstreams, as well as area on chip.
That was used to generate test harnesses for miners,
For x16r, we can’t actually test every algo combination - so we timed exact performance on all the GPU algorithm pairs vs acorn - math is applied to get what the average will be, and specific blocks of course tested


"

It was in a sense a response to questions about how they got the numbers (simulation only?) in June but they cannot come up with working SQRL Miner now.
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