Bitcoin Forum
September 21, 2018, 10:26:08 PM *
News: ♦♦ New info! Bitcoin Core users absolutely must upgrade to previously-announced 0.16.3 [Torrent]. All Bitcoin users should temporarily trust confirmations slightly less. More info.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 [18]  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Trust system abuse / DT2 member Vod is provably dishonestly rating people  (Read 3387 times)
qwk
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1890
Merit: 1378



View Profile
June 25, 2018, 11:48:32 AM
 #341

My concern about using the "I don't trust someone" standard, is that it encourages a mob mentality and removes any kind of accountability to those leaving ratings
If you look at the way the trust system is built with both trust ratings and a trust list, the latter is the mechanism to cope with the issue you've described.
If you deal "mobster" trust, you'll be excluded from trust lists.
Then again, since most people don't seem to really understand the system, and even less use it accordingly, the elegant mechanics of the trust system just don't seem to work in real life.

If you are unable to articulate how someone is a scammer, as a general rule, a negative rating is not appropriate.
That's a very wise general rule, which would be appropriate for displaying on the page where you leave trust ratings Smiley

Yeah, well... I'm gonna go build my own blockchain, with blackjack and hookers. In fact, forget the blockchain!
1537568768
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1537568768

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1537568768
Reply with quote  #2

1537568768
Report to moderator
1537568768
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1537568768

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1537568768
Reply with quote  #2

1537568768
Report to moderator
1537568768
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1537568768

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1537568768
Reply with quote  #2

1537568768
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1537568768
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1537568768

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1537568768
Reply with quote  #2

1537568768
Report to moderator
1537568768
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1537568768

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1537568768
Reply with quote  #2

1537568768
Report to moderator
Vod
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2506
Merit: 1692


Licking my boob since 1970


View Profile WWW
June 25, 2018, 07:56:18 PM
 #342

If you are unable to articulate how someone is a scammer, as a general rule, a negative rating is not appropriate.
That's a very wise general rule, which would be appropriate for displaying on the page where you leave trust ratings Smiley

Have you seen the dozens of negative trust ratings that scammer has left others with no reference?

Why would you reward such a hypocrite with merit?   Huh

I'm into creating universes, smiting people, writing holy books and listening to Prayer Messages (PMs).
BitcoinTalk Public Information Project (BPIP)
"Masturbation makes you feel good but doesn't do anything for the person you're thinking of.  Just like prayer."
Anduck
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1193
Merit: 1006


quack


View Profile
June 25, 2018, 09:20:55 PM
 #343

If you are unable to articulate how someone is a scammer, as a general rule, a negative rating is not appropriate.
That's a very wise general rule, which would be appropriate for displaying on the page where you leave trust ratings Smiley

Have you seen the dozens of negative trust ratings that scammer has left others with no reference?

Why would you reward such a hypocrite with merit?   Huh

Vod. Let's not let important posts get drowned.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4415201.msg39447493#msg39447493
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4415201.msg39588914#msg39588914
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4415201.msg40529245#msg40529245
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4415201.msg40537284#msg40537284
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4415201.msg40538407#msg40538407


Stop derailing and try to back up your dishonest & derogatory claims about me. For one example, your current rating to me is inconsistent with your reasoning e.g. referenced in the fifth link above.

Everyone: See the links for further pointers, or read this thread completely. No benefit of doubt anymore: Vod should be dropped from Default Trust list. Untrustworthy and dishonest people do not belong to DT list in any case. No matter if they rate correctly most of the times. When rated provably incorrectly (dishonest rating after scummy blackmailing attempt), and their ego is too big to go back to acknowledge and fix their wrongdoings, they simply do not belong to Default Trust list.

Vod
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2506
Merit: 1692


Licking my boob since 1970


View Profile WWW
June 26, 2018, 07:11:22 AM
 #344

Stop derailing

Quickseller abusing the trust system is on topic.

I'm into creating universes, smiting people, writing holy books and listening to Prayer Messages (PMs).
BitcoinTalk Public Information Project (BPIP)
"Masturbation makes you feel good but doesn't do anything for the person you're thinking of.  Just like prayer."
digaran
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 910
Merit: 611

111113DUwES2ZNWSJztA3oBuhzfcdmiaG


View Profile
June 27, 2018, 02:02:35 PM
 #345

Yes I satire much. :/

I'm here to suggest a way out for Anduck, you could easily go and farm trust, here is how:

Find a DT member and do some trading with them, they will leave you a positive trust and nobody could ever counter that if you don't bid on your own auctions or do something tag worthy. don't wait for Vod's forgiveness, after all he is on DT because of bullying other people.

HOWEYCOINS   ▮      Excitement and         ⭐  ● TWITTER  ● FACEBOOK   ⭐      
  ▮    guaranteed returns                 ●TELEGRAM                         
  ▮  of the travel industry
    ⭐  ●Ann Thread ●Instagram   ⭐ 
✅    U.S.Sec    ➡️
✅  approved!  ➡️
o_e_l_e_o
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 364
Merit: 549



View Profile
June 27, 2018, 03:01:59 PM
 #346

Find a DT member and do some trading with them, they will leave you a positive trust and nobody could ever counter that if you don't bid on your own auctions or do something tag worthy.

Taking out loans or doing trades that you don't want or need for the sole purpose of appearing more trustworthy is a pretty untrustworthy thing to do. In all likelihood this kind of behaviour would simply earn you more red trust.

It's a stupid idea, but I'm not surprised in the least that digaran would suggest it.


       █
      ██
     ██
   ██ ██
 █ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
   
       █
      ██
     ██
   ██ ██
 █ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
  B

          ▄▄▄▄▄▄
     ▄▄████████████▄▄
   ▄█████▀▀    ▀▀█████▄
  ████▀            ▀████
 ████                ████
▐███                  ███▌
███▌                  ▐███
▐███           ▄▄     ███▌
 ████         ▀███▄  ▐███
  ████▄         ▀███▄███
   ▀█████▄▄     ▄█████▀
     ▀▀████████████▀▀
          ▀▀▀▀▀▀
T 
Better. Quick.

Transparent.






             ▄████▄▄   ▄
█▄          ██████████▀▄
███        ███████████▀
▐████▄     ██████████▌
▄▄██████▄▄▄▄█████████▌
▀████████████████████
  ▀█████████████████
  ▄▄███████████████
   ▀█████████████▀
    ▄▄█████████▀
▀▀██████████▀
    ▀▀▀▀▀






▄█████████████████████████▄
███████████████████████████
███████████████▀       ████
██████████████      ▄▄▄████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████            ▐████
██████████            █████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████████    ▐████████
▀█████████████    ▐███████▀






                   ▄▄████
              ▄▄████████▌
         ▄▄█████████▀███
    ▄▄██████████▀▀ ▄███▌
▄████████████▀▀  ▄█████
▀▀▀███████▀   ▄███████▌
      ██    ▄█████████
       █  ▄██████████▌
       █  ███████████
       █ ██▀ ▀██████▌
       ██▀     ▀████
                 ▀█▌
digaran
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 910
Merit: 611

111113DUwES2ZNWSJztA3oBuhzfcdmiaG


View Profile
June 27, 2018, 03:08:01 PM
 #347

Find a DT member and do some trading with them, they will leave you a positive trust and nobody could ever counter that if you don't bid on your own auctions or do something tag worthy.

Taking out loans or doing trades that you don't want or need for the sole purpose of appearing more trustworthy is a pretty untrustworthy thing to do. In all likelihood this kind of behaviour would simply earn you more red trust.

It's a stupid idea, but I'm not surprised in the least that digaran would suggest it.

So you saying it is wrong to do trades with DT members in hopes of receiving positive trust from them after getting tagged red? would you prefer buying trust by the means of counter feedback?
So you also agree that people shouldn't go and farm trust after getting tagged? because people have done this for years, if you don't believe me, look at several positive trusts left on profiles after they got tagged red. or rather look at counter feedbacks left on profiles after getting tagged red.

HOWEYCOINS   ▮      Excitement and         ⭐  ● TWITTER  ● FACEBOOK   ⭐      
  ▮    guaranteed returns                 ●TELEGRAM                         
  ▮  of the travel industry
    ⭐  ●Ann Thread ●Instagram   ⭐ 
✅    U.S.Sec    ➡️
✅  approved!  ➡️
suchmoon
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1708
Merit: 1680



View Profile
June 27, 2018, 04:02:21 PM
 #348

So you saying it is wrong to do trades with DT members in hopes of receiving positive trust from them after getting tagged red? would you prefer buying trust by the means of counter feedback?
So you also agree that people shouldn't go and farm trust after getting tagged? because people have done this for years, if you don't believe me, look at several positive trusts left on profiles after they got tagged red. or rather look at counter feedbacks left on profiles after getting tagged red.

I'm not sure about o_e_l_e_o and others, but I would certainly prefer if you posted less of your made up nonsense and more of actual facts and proof, if any.

o_e_l_e_o
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 364
Merit: 549



View Profile
June 27, 2018, 06:34:17 PM
 #349

I'm not sure about o_e_l_e_o and others, but I would certainly prefer if you posted less of your made up nonsense and more of actual facts and proof, if any.

We can but dream.


       █
      ██
     ██
   ██ ██
 █ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
   
       █
      ██
     ██
   ██ ██
 █ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
  B

          ▄▄▄▄▄▄
     ▄▄████████████▄▄
   ▄█████▀▀    ▀▀█████▄
  ████▀            ▀████
 ████                ████
▐███                  ███▌
███▌                  ▐███
▐███           ▄▄     ███▌
 ████         ▀███▄  ▐███
  ████▄         ▀███▄███
   ▀█████▄▄     ▄█████▀
     ▀▀████████████▀▀
          ▀▀▀▀▀▀
T 
Better. Quick.

Transparent.






             ▄████▄▄   ▄
█▄          ██████████▀▄
███        ███████████▀
▐████▄     ██████████▌
▄▄██████▄▄▄▄█████████▌
▀████████████████████
  ▀█████████████████
  ▄▄███████████████
   ▀█████████████▀
    ▄▄█████████▀
▀▀██████████▀
    ▀▀▀▀▀






▄█████████████████████████▄
███████████████████████████
███████████████▀       ████
██████████████      ▄▄▄████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████            ▐████
██████████            █████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████████    ▐████████
▀█████████████    ▐███████▀






                   ▄▄████
              ▄▄████████▌
         ▄▄█████████▀███
    ▄▄██████████▀▀ ▄███▌
▄████████████▀▀  ▄█████
▀▀▀███████▀   ▄███████▌
      ██    ▄█████████
       █  ▄██████████▌
       █  ███████████
       █ ██▀ ▀██████▌
       ██▀     ▀████
                 ▀█▌
Anduck
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1193
Merit: 1006


quack


View Profile
July 07, 2018, 07:30:59 AM
 #350

Can't allow DT members like Vod to abuse their position. Read this thread to learn what's going on. Start from e.g. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4415201.msg40906371#msg40906371

cryptobobo
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 210
Merit: 10

The P2P Marketplace For Digital Content


View Profile
July 09, 2018, 01:38:03 AM
 #351

Theymos wont listen to your moaning,i was tagged because of the alts accounts,didnt cheat bounties nor scammed people..

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4624272.0 hilariousandco who is a global moderator does know that my reds are inappropriate.
The Pharmacist has his own rules,this forum is being run by these DT Members.

If theres only one can remove these abusers it is Theymos.

Anduck
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1193
Merit: 1006


quack


View Profile
August 01, 2018, 09:37:20 PM
 #352

Bump.

Ideas are needed to make trust system better. As said before, I think adding more DT1 members would improve the situation. Of course that drops the "trustness" as perceived e.g. by forum staff, but on the other hand the trust system is supposed to be used in a way where people should make their own trust lists/networks instead of trusting default trust list. In a way, adding more DT1 members would improve both of these goals: there would be less fear of getting e.g. "dropped" (from the DT list) for arbitrary/silly reasons, more decentralization (wider amount of people "in charge") etc. AND people would want to adjust / make own trust lists because they would detect *individual* wrongdoing making them want to correct it. Such "individual wrongdoing" doesn't affect many in the current system, so it is largely dismissed in the community.
Maybe there should be official guidelines about the *community acceptable* use of trust system. Then people would better know how to use the trust system. E.g. will you rate or will you not rate, who will you exclude, who will you not. Do you want to signal others something or do you want to record something for your own information, what are the "offences" to earn red trust, what means getting positive trust --and so on.

As an example (my personal experience) about the problems, there's this case where Vod rates me provably dishonestly. He also claims other things and presents no evidence, proof or anything to back those claims. And he blackmailed me. Vods standing in the DT system is too strong as people who have added him there are either inactive or do not care. This means that Vod can keep on doing whatever he wants, and everyone knows it. It shouldn't be like this. One shouldn't be able to freely harass others as a salary for doing good deeds for the community. Red trust from DT1/DT2 member has (or can have) significant negative effect on the target, that's the reality right now.

pugman
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1232
Merit: 1296


Sliding in ya DM's be like


View Profile WWW
August 01, 2018, 11:49:19 PM
 #353

Bump.

Ideas are needed to make trust system better. As said before, I think adding more DT1 members would improve the situation. Of course that drops the "trustness" as perceived e.g. by forum staff, but on the other hand the trust system is supposed to be used in a way where people should make their own trust lists/networks instead of trusting default trust list. In a way, adding more DT1 members would improve both of these goals: there would be less fear of getting e.g. "dropped" (from the DT list) for arbitrary/silly reasons, more decentralization (wider amount of people "in charge") etc. AND people would want to adjust / make own trust lists because they would detect *individual* wrongdoing making them want to correct it. Such "individual wrongdoing" doesn't affect many in the current system, so it is largely dismissed in the community.
Maybe there should be official guidelines about the *community acceptable* use of trust system. Then people would better know how to use the trust system. E.g. will you rate or will you not rate, who will you exclude, who will you not. Do you want to signal others something or do you want to record something for your own information, what are the "offences" to earn red trust, what means getting positive trust --and so on.

As an example (my personal experience) about the problems, there's this case where Vod rates me provably dishonestly. He also claims other things and presents no evidence, proof or anything to back those claims. And he blackmailed me. Vods standing in the DT system is too strong as people who have added him there are either inactive or do not care. This means that Vod can keep on doing whatever he wants, and everyone knows it. It shouldn't be like this. One shouldn't be able to freely harass others as a salary for doing good deeds for the community. Red trust from DT1/DT2 member has (or can have) significant negative effect on the target, that's the reality right now.
For adding more DT1 members, theymos needs to personally trust people. And, no one has been added in DT1 for months now, if not years. DeaDTerra was removed from DT1.  theymos wants it to be decentralized but the trust system is broken, and I am no fan of it. Its used for everything but for what it was initially intended for, which is both good and bad. People rely on the trust system when not required, and don't rely on it when its most required. Some people actually want TheOldScammerTag to come back. That would make the trusts system to be centralized, but I would say its no different than the current "decentralized" trust system.

Of course that drops the "trustness" as perceived e.g. by forum staff, but on the other hand the trust system is supposed to be used in a way where people should make their own trust lists/networks instead of trusting default trust list.
What do you mean by this,emphasis on the "trustness as perceived e.g. by forum staff". I find it a little hard to comprehend, as I am not a native English speaker.

r1s2g3
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 294
Merit: 70


View Profile
August 02, 2018, 01:08:34 AM
 #354

Theymos wont listen to your moaning,i was tagged because of the alts accounts,didnt cheat bounties nor scammed people..

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4624272.0 hilariousandco who is a global moderator does know that my reds are inappropriate.
The Pharmacist has his own rules,this forum is being run by these DT Members.

If theres only one can remove these abusers it is Theymos.

Nobody banned you in this forum for Alt accounts , so forum rules are followed.
Since I do not see you made your Alt account public and probably you cheated the bounties and get busted, so here the DT ratings come into picture.

eddie13
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 910
Merit: 590


BTC or BUST


View Profile
August 02, 2018, 05:24:06 AM
 #355

The trust system is like a nuclear weapon..
Some times it is used on others if they don't step in line..
It turns scoffs between old members into MAD, mutually assured destruction, wars..
Adding more DT members is like nuclear proliferation..
If you have nukes and they don't, you don't want them to get nukes..
Unless you are empowering allies, puppet states.. 

It is against the interest of nuclear trust holders to spread it, making themselves more common and less powerful relatively, while those without trust will naturally be in favor of joining the party..
If their was a vote the elites would lose hands down but this ain't no democracy, they own the media..





█████           █████        ██████████████▀▄███▄       ▄███▄      ▄▄▄████████▄▄▄        ▄▄███████▄▄         ▄███▄
 █████         █████         ██████████████ █████       █████    ████████████████     ▄███████████████▄      █████
  █████       █████          ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀█████▀▀ ▀▀▀         ▀▀▀    ██████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀███   ▄███████████████████▄     ▀▀▀
   █████     █████ ▄▄▄▄▄       ▄▄▄▄▄ █████  ▄▄▄▄▄       ▄▄▄▄▄  █████▀              ███████████████████████   █████ ████▄ ▄██████▄
    █████   █████  █████       █████ █████  █████       █████ ▐█████              █████████████████████████  █████ ███████████████
     █████ █████   █████       █████ █████  █████       █████ ▐████▌             ███████████████████████████ █████ ███████▀▀▀██████
      █████████    █████       █████ █████  █████       █████ ▐████▌             ███████████████████████████ █████ █████▀    ▀█████
       ███████     █████       █████ █████  █████       █████ ▐████▌             ███████████████████████████ █████ █████      █████
        █████      █████       █████ █████  █████       █████ ▐█████              █████████████████████████  █████ █████      █████
        █████      █████       █████ █████  █████       █████  █████▄              ███████████████████████   █████ █████      █████
        █████      ██████▄▄▄▄▄██████ █████  ██████▄▄▄▄▄██████   ██████▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄███   ▀███████████████████▀    █████ █████      █████
        █████       ████████████████ █████   ████████████████  ▄ ████████████████     ▀███████████████▀  ▄█▄ █████ █████      █████
        █████        ▀▀████▀▀  █████ █████    ▀█████▀▀  █████ ▀█▀   ▀▀████████▀▀▀        ▀▀███████▀▀     ▀█▀ █████ █████      █████
Anduck
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1193
Merit: 1006


quack


View Profile
August 02, 2018, 08:40:13 AM
 #356

Of course that drops the "trustness" as perceived e.g. by forum staff, but on the other hand the trust system is supposed to be used in a way where people should make their own trust lists/networks instead of trusting default trust list.
What do you mean by this,emphasis on the "trustness as perceived e.g. by forum staff". I find it a little hard to comprehend, as I am not a native English speaker.

I mean the factor of how trusted the DT is (= how trusted are the people in DT) seen from the DT administrator point of view. It is only their view, but they are still in full control of DT.

Anduck
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1193
Merit: 1006


quack


View Profile
September 01, 2018, 12:32:35 AM
 #357

It looks like a ton of new people, especially non-English speakers, think that DT are staff/moderators. They're not entirely wrong. After all, DT members *are* capable of effectively "banning" accounts from conducting any business here.

Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 [18]  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!