Trust system abuse / DT2 member Vod is provably dishonestly rating people

[KWH]

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You might find legitimate disagreement on this point. Why, specifically, is bidding on your own auction (in the open) unethical?  
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What is the goal of an auction?
Sell something to earn money/currency. When you win your own auction, what have you earned? Did you take the sale price from the left pocket and move to the right pocket? How is this earning money or selling an item?
Bid shilling is designed to lose an auction. This has wasted peoples time, time they could have bought the same item elsewhere. Time = money.
Post a  Reserve and let it ride and stop trying to move the focus everywhere but where it needs to be, or what the definition of "is" is.
Theymos lays out the guidelines but lets the forum set some standards and gives us plenty of freedoms here, does he need to set everything in stone?

[suchmoon]

Would it be ok to bid, win, and then back out of paying or pay less than the winning bid?

[digaran]

Time = money.

Since this topic is about the abuse of trust system, I'd like to remind you that I am a victim of abuse by suchmoon, marlboroza . according to KWH time is money, I have asked for money in exchange of my time by offering a service but suchmoon tagged me red twice, marlboroza has also tagged me for it. this is a clear sign of abuse, therefore I'd like to ask for assistance from the people in position of power in this forum.

[suchmoon]

Time = money.

Since this topic is about the abuse of trust system, I'd like to remind you that I am a victim of abuse by suchmoon, marlboroza . according to KWH time is money, I have asked for money in exchange of my time by offering a service but suchmoon tagged me red twice, marlboroza has also tagged me for it. this is a clear sign of abuse, therefore I'd like to ask for assistance from the people in position of power in this forum.

Have you contacted DT1 members yet?

[digaran]

Time = money.

Since this topic is about the abuse of trust system, I'd like to remind you that I am a victim of abuse by suchmoon, marlboroza . according to KWH time is money, I have asked for money in exchange of my time by offering a service but suchmoon tagged me red twice, marlboroza has also tagged me for it. this is a clear sign of abuse, therefore I'd like to ask for assistance from the people in position of power in this forum.

Have you contacted DT1 members yet?

If I do contact dooglus and if he refuses to take any action, people would say that he is an irresponsible person. if he says that the tags on my profile are not valid and you refuse to remove them as you have already stated that you wont remove them under any circumstances and if he keeps you on DT2 regardless, he would lose his credibility and people would say that he is an irresponsible person for keeping you on DT2.

If he kicks you out from DT2, you'd lose your credibility and this forum could lose a potential useful asset. I am trying to give you a chance but you are unable to see it.

[o_e_l_e_o]

It looks like there are cases where it's legal and customary for a seller to bid on his own auction. I imagine outside of the US, there may be jurisdictions with less restrictions on this as well.

Only in cases of a forced sale, which this was not. See my earlier post here for links to the relevant US law.

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Or more likely, he'll see you for the raving loony you are, agree with suchmoon, and then maybe, just maybe, you could stop derailing threads with your nonsense.

[digaran]

~Snip~

Usually people who are deaf and blind can't hear and see the truth. I think God doesn't like you to see the truth so he has made you deaf and blind to it.

BTW, obvious alt account: o_e_l_e_o funny how you are the only one telling me that what I say is nonsense. this is the reason why people use alt accounts, they are cowards and want to hide behind their alts.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Nice! Who am I an alt of now? It was suchmoon and actmyname before. Can I be an alt of Vod this time? That would be fun to try for a while.

[digaran]

This is the behavior of DT2 members. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3853171.msg39418486#msg39418486 when they see that nobody is stopping them, they would think they could do and say whatever they want. free speech eh?

[suchmoon]

This is the behavior of DT2 members. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3853171.msg39418486#msg39418486 when they see that nobody is stopping them, they would think they could do and say whatever they want. free speech eh?

Again, you're the one refusing to take the action that could stop those DT2 members. It's almost as if you only want to complain incessantly and not actually resolve any real or imaginary issues with the trust system.

[pugman]

I was blocked by Vod after he red-rated me. Instantly. No way for me to reason with him in private. He isn't willing to do anything here unless it starts affecting him too. That means, when I get on DT or someone in DT red-rates him, etc.

Blocking people is something DT members do much often after tagging someone. But I didn't expect that to happen for your case, because you're/were a reputed member of the forum. DT members should listen to the other parties and not block everybody after tagging,IMO.

Again, Vod was right in tagging you in the first place, because what you did was unethical even though it was slightly transparent. But he changing his tag just because you won't change it back,is not expected from a mature member like Vod. I want to hear more on what other people think on the recent events:

Vod changing his tag back to negative because Anduck refused to - Vod blocking Anduck- and clear misunderstandings from both parties.

I am trying to act neutral here, and both members have misused the system because its purpose is entirely different.

[shahzadafzal]

I am trying to act neutral here, and both members have misused the system because its purpose is entirely different.

100% with you on this, now this have turned personal nothing else.

We all agree OP did not try to scam anyone and he was transparent in bidding on his own thread, although its subjective but still many of us consider it unethical.

Now Vod and Anduck should discuss it again personally on PMs, it's clear ego is hurting both parties. Vod should unblock him and should discuss with him again. They should know DT members or management is not going intervene since trust is not monitored. (Vod have advantage here being in DT2)

I want to hear more on what other people think on the recent events:

In the end you both are very senior members of the community,  be an example to us juniors... show big heart and you both should neutralize your negative trust.

[Vod]

Vod changing his tag back to negative because Anduck refused to

I am trying to act neutral here, and both members have misused the system because its purpose is entirely different.

If you are trying to act neutral, don't take words posted by Anduck as fact. 

After my last conversation with him, I took over 96 hours to make my decision to tag him. 

[Anduck]

Vod changing his tag back to negative because Anduck refused to

I am trying to act neutral here, and both members have misused the system because its purpose is entirely different.

If you are trying to act neutral, don't take words posted by Anduck as fact.  

After my last conversation with him, I took over 96 hours to make my decision to tag him.  

I've not lied about anything whatsoever.
I've not scammed anyone.

You, Vod, on the other hand, have lied multiple times in this thread alone. Fake quotes even, lol. Please show quotes where I lie or scam (and when Vod won't, could someone else please show the quotes?) You've presented nothing, because you are making false claims. I've presented several of your lies, all in this thread, and all the rest in the links in the first post. Grow up.

[Vod]

I've not lied about anything whatsoever.
I've not scammed anyone.

You, Vod, on the other hand, have lied multiple times in this thread alone. Fake quotes even, lol. Please show quotes where I lie or scam (and when Vod won't, could someone else please show the quotes?) You've presented nothing, because you are making false claims. I've presented several of your lies, all in this thread, and all the rest in the links in the first post. Grow up.

I believe bidding on your own auction is unethical.  I don't trust you as a result.

Any other questions? 

[Anduck]

I've not lied about anything whatsoever.
I've not scammed anyone.

You, Vod, on the other hand, have lied multiple times in this thread alone. Fake quotes even, lol. Please show quotes where I lie or scam (and when Vod won't, could someone else please show the quotes?) You've presented nothing, because you are making false claims. I've presented several of your lies, all in this thread, and all the rest in the links in the first post. Grow up.

I believe bidding on your own auction is unethical.  I don't trust you as a result.

Any other questions?  

Your beliefs do not make it scamming, dishonest or untrustworthy behavior. You've proven none of your claims about me calling you a scammer, me scamming, me lying, me admitting lying and so on. You, on the other hand, have done several dishonest and untrustworthy things. I assume you're ready to remove yourself from DT2 due to all your dishonest and disgusting behavior that doesn't seem to ever end.

Why are you:
1.) spreading lies about me? (source: your rating towards me, all over this thread and this thread.)
2.) calling me a scammer? (source: your rating towards me, all over this thread and this thread.)
3.) claiming I've "admitted to lying"? (source: your rating towards me and these threads)
4.) threatening to red-rate me if I don't change my rating? (source: link, ref 2, PM conv. source here)
5.) faking quote? (source: here and extra intellectual dishonesty here.)
6.) reasoning your earlier lies/claims using your faked quote? (source: here)
7.) changing stance about self-bidding from "not untrustworthy" to "unethical"? (source: link, ref 1, PM conv. source here)
8.) basing your "conclusions" on illogical misunderstanding and refusing to be corrected about your illogical misunderstanding / refusing to admit to have illogically misunderstood me. (source: link, ref 5, PM conv. source here)
9.) lying about the reason you rated me? (source: this and this contradicts these reasons and this)
10.) placing fresh negative trust using something that happened over two years before your rating as the main stated reason?
11.) abusing/misusing your DT position by placing unfair and dishonest feedback?

These are only the things I can remember right now. Could you start by answering to these questions? Please try to not be a jackass like you were here.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Your beliefs do not make it scamming, dishonest or untrustworthy behavior.

No, but being against the law does.

I would draw everyone's attention to the Uniform Commercial Code of the United States, which states in section 2-328 (4):

If the auctioneer knowingly receives a bid on the seller's behalf or the seller makes or procures such a bid, and notice has not been given that liberty for such bidding is reserved, the buyer may at his option avoid the sale or take the goods at the price of the last good faithbid prior to the completion of the sale. [Emphasis added]

You did not provide advance notice, therefore you acted unlawfully.

[Anduck]

Your beliefs do not make it scamming, dishonest or untrustworthy behavior.

No, but being against the law does.

I don't follow the law of United States. I've asked theymos, the forum owner, about this, and he told me he doesn't see self-bidding as scammy at all. It's not against rules. However, as I've said multiple times, I haven't and won't be self-bidding since that *single auction that happened over two years ago*, because even though self-bidding is common in my country and culture, I understand the possible frustration and wasted time undisclosed hidden reserve price or in other words, self-bidding, can do.

This is off-topic anyway. Let's try to stay on topic.

[suchmoon]

Your beliefs do not make it scamming, dishonest or untrustworthy behavior. You've proven none of your claims about me calling you a scammer, me scamming, me lying, me admitting lying and so on. You, on the other hand, have done several dishonest and untrustworthy things.

Vod's belief is enough to post a negative feedback for you. Your belief is enough to post a negative feedback for Vod, which you have done. This is not a court of law, it's a community-driven/crowd-sourced/whatchamacallit trust system and Vod clearly does not trust you for a reason. I for one appreciate Vod's feedback as it tells me what kind of auction one can expect from you.

[o_e_l_e_o]

I don't follow the law of United States.

Given that Bitcointalk is hosted from the US, and the item in question was in the US, US law is far more relevant than whatever the customs in your country are.

This isn't off-topic - in fact it is the crux of the matter. Ignoring all the PMs, the he-said-she-said, trading neutrals and negatives and all the rest of it, you performed a dishonest act and were tagged for it. That's all that is relevant as far as I'm concerned.